10/11 Fluffles AMBG 88 PMPS 119

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Fluffles

Fluffles

Member Since 2017
Hi everyone :) Its been 48 hours since I've given Fluffles a dose and at +47 he had a number I would have felt totally comfortable with but now he's down to 92 and I'm stalling. He should get .5 but if his number doesn't come up in the next 15 minutes do you think I should dose, give a half dose, skip? I will be home tonight and have supplies but tomorrow I will be gone for 13 hours. Opinions would be greatly appreciated. thanks
 
Hmmm, Fluffles is doing things very different. Honestly, not sure I'd shoot with her getting to 47 without insulin. I'd probably skip or bring the dose down to .25 and see what happens. If low or green tomorrow with you being out I wouldn't shoot. For lurkers, this is very untraditional advise and for Fluffles only.
 
Ok changed my mind, it seems most think the safer thing to do is skip, so we will let this ride another night. Thanks for your opinions!
 
tiffmaxee said:
I think I would shoot if he’s at 120
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He was 120 @ +47

The 92/99 at PMPS may be what we call a "double dip"....Lantus does that sometimes, but there's no way to know for sure since you didn't get a mid-cycle today

A double dip is when the number goes down later in the cycle, but not lower than the nadir.....like (for example) if you'd gotten an 84 @ +42 today (normal +6) and then he went up to 120 at +47 (normal +11), the PMPS tonight would be a second drop....but not lower than the nadir of 84 ...or a "double dip"...does that make sense?
 
Nice cycle!! If I’m going to be around to test, I like to try not to skip, but I’m super curious what Darwin is going to do tonight too. We may be up together...:coffee::p
 
CassAndGordy said:
Amy, refresh my memory... did you change his food lately? Or has he been eating the same stuff? This is a nice run ;)
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I changed his food as soon as he was diagnosed from dry purina to ff classic chicken pate. That was the beginning of September. He was always a cat that refused wet food, but now he will eat it without a problem, no idea why but I'm glad he changed his mind!
 
Sorry for all the confusion about his numbers vs the hours since last dose. The math is getting a little complicated for me now too when I'm trying to figure out how to report it lol. Is there a way I can say it that would be less confusing for everyone?
 
Wow look at Fluffles.

Food for thought Amy.

It has been noted that prolonging insulin support leads to a stronger remission. If this were me I'd be thinking about attempting to shoot 'some insulin' (I did follow TR)

If I'm honest I don't like that 120 in there yesterday. It's possible that the depot is still holding his numbers down, and when that empties you could see numbers start to suddenly climb. When that happens it can end up being a real set back it is not unusual that they end up requiring more insulin than they were initially on (ie you could see him go up beyond the 1.5u mark).

Bear in mind that if you were doing TR, you would be shooting anything over 50, so numbers in the 90's and high 80's are not that low. I do find that when following SLGS it does get very tricky at this point, it's not recommended that you shoot below 90 in the guidelines, yet you are looking for numbers in the 50-80 (with only occasional numbers above 100) for remission. To me his ss doesn't look like he is too sure which way he's going yet.My advice would be to continue monitoring him like you have been doing, and don't dilydally to restart insulin should you see a trend in rising numbers.

All that said with being out at work during the day, it is difficult for you to ensure he stays safe. But just wanted to put it out there for you to ponder. Perhaps shooting 0.1u or even a drop of insulin is something that you would be able to achieve safely should you need to?
Going from 1.5u to zero is not the 'usual' way a kitty goes OTJ into a strong remission, but of course since it's cats that we are talking about .........
 
Thanks @Gill & George I hear what you're saying and appreciate your concern. I have been thinking a lot about that. I had several days off the end of last week and beginning of this week and was able to get a lot of testing in. My typical schedule is I'm out of the house working 12 to 13 or sometimes up to 14 hours a day 4 days a week. That's why I have been following the SLGS plan, I would love to follow TR if I had a different schedule. I worry about being gone that long and injecting insulin. Have been going back and forth with this in my head. I am off tomorrow so I would probably feel more comfortable. I don't think I'm supposed to switch back and forth between the plans. Do you have a suggestion on lower safe number to shoot on either days I'm home or at work. Advice is always appreciated!! Overall I'm so happy with all the help I have received here and how well Fluffles is doing. Thank you!!
 
While it's not a traditional way of getting OTJ sometimes it does happen. I'm doubtful there is much depot at play. With meter variance that 120 could have been green and it's also in the normal range. I wouldn't shoot being gone 12+ hours either. At this point, keep doing what you're doing. Fluffles is in charge and will let you know.

Removing dry from the picture is a big deal. We've seen a cat here go from 5u of insulin to OTJ in just 48hrs so it's not unheard of. Paws crossed the food change and doing so quickly is all Fluffles needed.
 
Thanks @Doodles & Karen! I appreciate it! It's sometimes feels like walking a tightrope deciding what to do on a daily basis but everyday I'm feeling a little more confident and optimistic! After work tonight maybe I'll post and ask for opinions, I want to keep him heading in the right direction!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I'm doubtful there is much depot at play.
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It's right on the limit, possible perhaps, but not likely. It's also possible that the depot got over full between 10/1 amd 10/4 and if that were the case, we may still be seeing a touch of influence from that. Though of course we can't know for sure
Doodles & Karen said:
With meter variance that 120 could have been green
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LOL funny I looked at the 99 that same day and thought with variance, he was probably flat that day and the PS possibly blue.:)

Doodles & Karen said:
Removing dry from the picture is a big deal. We've seen a cat here go from 5u of insulin to OTJ in just 48hrs so it's not unheard of.
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Usually when dry has such a huge impact we see those sort of change within a couple of days of stopping the dry food. But who knows how long it actually takes for the effects of the dry to finally work it's way out of the system

Fluffles said:
I don't think I'm supposed to switch back and forth between the plans. Do you have a suggestion on lower safe number to shoot on either days I'm home or at work.
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This is a difficult question, there really isn't enough data on how Fluffles cycles evolve when you shoot low. The lowest you've shot is 97 and 99, both those cycles turned out pretty flat and safe, even though he did dip below 90 and earn a reduction. I would not shoot below 90 on days when you can't monitor, and if Fluffles obliges, shooting in that range when you are home to monitor and gather some data will probably help you answer those questions.

It is important to keep Fluffles safe and with being away all day, it's sensible to exercise caution particularly when something does appear to have changed. If you have a few days of it's ok to attempt to be a little more aggressive when you are around to monitor and perhaps experimenting with a drop dose, and higher low carb food to see what that yields in terms of numbers, that way you can find yourself in a position to confidently shoot when you are not going to be able to monitor.
Certainly the numbers look promising, so hopefully he won't keep you on the edge of the seat for too log.
 
Gill & George said:
It's right on the limit, possible perhaps, but not likely. It's also possible that the depot got over full between 10/1 amd 10/4 and if that were the case, we may still be seeing a touch of influence from that. Though of course we can't know for sure

LOL funny I looked at the 99 that same day and thought with variance, he was probably flat that day and the PS possibly blue.:)


Usually when dry has such a huge impact we see those sort of change within a couple of days of stopping the dry food. But who knows how long it actually takes for the effects of the dry to finally work it's way out of the system


This is a difficult question, there really isn't enough data on how Fluffles cycles evolve when you shoot low. The lowest you've shot is 97 and 99, both those cycles turned out pretty flat and safe, even though he did dip below 90 and earn a reduction. I would not shoot below 90 on days when you can't monitor, and if Fluffles obliges, shooting in that range when you are home to monitor and gather some data will probably help you answer those questions.

It is important to keep Fluffles safe and with being away all day, it's sensible to exercise caution particularly when something does appear to have changed. If you have a few days of it's ok to attempt to be a little more aggressive when you are around to monitor and perhaps experimenting with a drop dose, and higher low carb food to see what that yields in terms of numbers, that way you can find yourself in a position to confidently shoot when you are not going to be able to monitor.
Certainly the numbers look promising, so hopefully he won't keep you on the edge of the seat for too log.
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I'm learning so much from you! :)
 
Amy, it's better you start a new condo. I was confused when I saw the title then opened the condo from yesterday. You can link the last post to the new condo.
 
Hi all, just home from work and catching up on all the responses. Tonight I'll be home and PMPS was definitely in a shootable range so I went with what he earned, .5 We'll see how that goes. I'll do my best to get more data on his response tonight and tomorrow. The more information I have the more confidant I will be with my decisions. I agree it doesn't make sense to rush things if it means a short lived remission (if he even gets there). I do feel optimistic that we can get there at some point which is exciting for me. When he was first diagnosed, I really didn't even see that was a realistic possibility, I do now. And I know without this site and the help of so many knowledgable and experienced people that we would even have made as much progress as we have. The vet's plan (just shoot blind) scares me now even though that's what I was doing in the beginning and then again after my meter broke and didn't test for a couple of days. I'm not sure when the switch happened for me that I became so much more cautious about it but I know it's due to all that I have read and a better understanding of the dangers. I appreciate the "food for thought" that I don't want to be too overly cautious either when I'm available to test because it could cause a set back. It's a delicate balance, and I'm learning more every day. I appreciate all your advice and help so much!!
 
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I need to head off to bed. Just keep an eye on Fluffles and feed to keep him above 50. If he goes to like 80, then check 1-2 times before calling him safe if he doesn't drop.
 
Thanks @Chris & China :) fed him 2 Tbs mc at +3 and 2 Tbs hc at +4. I'm at +4.5 now and he came up a smidge maybe. Should I just keep feeding every hour or so until he comes up to about 70 or 80ish?
 
You could give him a little more LC now and test again in 30 minutes....if he's still above 50 then (or hopefully a little higher), don't feed anymore and test again an hour later.

If they drop below 50, you feed something HC and then test every 30 minutes for the next hour and then get 1 more test an hour later so that you're testing for at least 2 hours from the HC

Since he didn't actually drop below 50 though and you haven't fed HC, I think you could get away with one more test in 30, and one more test an hour after

If he's still doing OK at that point without any more food, I think you could give him a snack for the night and get some rest

Edited to add.....better start practicing your .25 dose!!
 
Chris & China said:
You could give him a little more LC now and test again in 30 minutes....if he's still above 50 then (or hopefully a little higher), don't feed anymore and test again an hour later.

If they drop below 50, you feed something HC and then test every 30 minutes for the next hour and then get 1 more test an hour later so that you're testing for at least 2 hours from the HC

Since he didn't actually drop below 50 though and you haven't fed HC, I think you could get away with one more test in 30, and one more test an hour after

If he's still doing OK at that point without any more food, I think you could give him a snack for the night and get some rest
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Sounds great Chris, as always thank you so much for help! I really appreciate it! :)
 
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