Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
Record high for AMPS
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10/10 Copernicus AMPS=650
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Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
I know you would say this an emergency for a normal diabetic, but with being over 600 for 3-4 days when he already has stage 3 kidney disease, I imagine this I just killing his kidneys. He probably needs IV fluids again to flush out the toxins. He's just laying on the floor and not moving.
Staci & Ivy
Member Since 2022
I’m sorry to hear this update, Krista. Can you give him fluids at home? I’m unsure if the status of your getting a vet to prescribe them.
Poor baby, sending love and prayers for sweet Copernicus
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
If I did insulin in the scruff can I do fluids in the scruff without diluting any of this insulin?? We tried his flank but he doesn't have a lot of skin there. We need more areas to inject but his skin is tight.I’m sorry to hear this update, Krista. Can you give him fluids at home? I’m unsure if the status of your getting a vet to prescribe them.
Poor baby, sending love and prayers for sweet Copernicus
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Take him back to 23 units, this dose is too low. You could also try 22 if worried, but he needs more insulin. Don't give R on the cycle that you do the dose increase. As is, he's been going down over 100 points over 4 hours with the addition of R.
You can separate the insulin and fluids by time as well. The "worst" thing that will happen with fluids and insulin in the scruff area is that it might lower his BG. I tried to shoot Neko below the shoulder blades, she had more room there, plus her hair there was shorter.
You can separate the insulin and fluids by time as well. The "worst" thing that will happen with fluids and insulin in the scruff area is that it might lower his BG. I tried to shoot Neko below the shoulder blades, she had more room there, plus her hair there was shorter.
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
I thought we were giving him more time on this dose since it was all whacky before this and the skip. He needed to settle? I'm assuming you are saying increase since it's been 6 cycles?
You don't need to "settle" on a dose that's not working. Previously 20 wasn't getting him too low and he needed an increase. I am not saying increase because it's been 6 cycles, but rather giving him 20 when he had been on 23 before the hospital was too low a dose. The dose count is only at 5 today, as the FS on the PM of the 7th restarted the cycle count.
Glad to see he's coming down at least a bit today.
You could probably move to +2 and +4 testing when you give R.
Glad to see he's coming down at least a bit today.
You could probably move to +2 and +4 testing when you give R.
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
We are at the vet. Copernicus is in final stages of kidney failure. CREA is 5 and BUN is registering above 130. I should have taken him in as soon as his BG reached 700. They estimate he has days to weeks. We will be admitting him tonight, but our hope is that he can pass away at home with us.
I am so sorry to hear this news. 
IRIS staging system has Crea of 5.0 being upper end of stage 3. Neko got close to that (World measurements). If you can give fluids at home, it may help his QOL. Sending as many vines as I can for Copernicus to feel better.
IRIS staging system has Crea of 5.0 being upper end of stage 3. Neko got close to that (World measurements). If you can give fluids at home, it may help his QOL. Sending as many vines as I can for Copernicus to feel better.
Staci & Ivy
Member Since 2022
I’m so sorry Krista. My heart breaks for you and Copernicus. He’s such a sweet and gentle soul. You’ve done everything possible for him and he loves you so much.
Sending you so much love and strength
Sending you so much love and strength
Anoud&Mocha
Member Since 2026
I wish there were words to ease even a little of this pain. I hope you know how deeply loved he is, and how much your love and care mean to him. Praying he feels nothing but comfort, warmth, and your love surrounding him. Sending you the biggest hug.
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
I am so sorry to hear this news.
He's also anemicI am so sorry to hear this news.
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
I am so sorry to hear this news.
Was it the kidney values for Neko that was the end of life? This IM knew even less about acros. She never used cabergoline. She never heard of the IAA test. She isn't doing a CRI because he's eating. She is going to discharge him in critical condition. Do you think we can get his BG better with these kidney values I shared?I am so sorry to hear this news.
Liz & Crowley
Member Since 2026
He's very lucky to have you 
sending you love.
sending you love.
JL and Chip
Member Since 2009
What range have they seen for urine specific gravity? I’m assuming it was higher when dehydrated and lower after IV fluids (due to dilution), but I’m curious as to what they’ve been seeing and how it has trended over the past months. Also curious about anemia status, potassium, and phosphorus. I don’t see anything on the Labs tab of the spreadsheet after May.
I lost Tubby to kidney disease. We’re pretty sure in hindsight that he was retaining urine (probably bladder neuropathy), even though he was peeing large volumes, and that the urine retention was a culprit in the kidney damage. The theory was that the kidneys were one of the causes for high BG (not the other way around), with contributing factors being sluggish bowels (also seemed to trigger high BG) and possible mega colon. There are always a lot of moving parts with these acros, none of which is clear.
It sounds like you’ve seen Copernicus act better with lower BG, so maybe consider being aggressive with the dose increases—like Wendy suggested, you could have gone back to 23u rather than 22u. It would be nice to see how he acts if you can wrestle down those high BGs. I’m not sure you’ve ever found a good dose, but I suspect it’s higher than you’ve tried so far. I’m also wondering about daily cabergoline. It might not help, but at least you won’t wonder.
I understand the angst. It sounds like you might be in “Hail Mary to the end zone” territory. If it’s my cat, I might pull out all of the stops.
We put Tubby on broad-spectrum antibiotics empirically, given the entirety of his circumstances and the possibility of an insidious kidney infection that we just couldn’t prove. My IM was fine with that. It might or might not have helped, but again, lots of moving parts and we were pretty much wracking our brains and throwing everything at the wall to see if anything would stick. I don’t recall what Tubby’s creatinine and BUN were at the end, but I’ll see if I can track that down. The urine SG was very low.
I’ve lost other cats to kidney disease as well as a dog. It’s rough. I want to say that the dog’s creatinine was up around 10, but she had fully stopped eating and her bone marrow had all but ceased producing red blood cells, so it was clear there was no way back.
I hope you have more time with Copernicus. He is much more than numbers on a sheet of paper. You’ve advocated so so hard for him. Give him lots of love and a few head scratches from me. I’ll be sending positive energy your direction.
I lost Tubby to kidney disease. We’re pretty sure in hindsight that he was retaining urine (probably bladder neuropathy), even though he was peeing large volumes, and that the urine retention was a culprit in the kidney damage. The theory was that the kidneys were one of the causes for high BG (not the other way around), with contributing factors being sluggish bowels (also seemed to trigger high BG) and possible mega colon. There are always a lot of moving parts with these acros, none of which is clear.
It sounds like you’ve seen Copernicus act better with lower BG, so maybe consider being aggressive with the dose increases—like Wendy suggested, you could have gone back to 23u rather than 22u. It would be nice to see how he acts if you can wrestle down those high BGs. I’m not sure you’ve ever found a good dose, but I suspect it’s higher than you’ve tried so far. I’m also wondering about daily cabergoline. It might not help, but at least you won’t wonder.
I understand the angst. It sounds like you might be in “Hail Mary to the end zone” territory. If it’s my cat, I might pull out all of the stops.
We put Tubby on broad-spectrum antibiotics empirically, given the entirety of his circumstances and the possibility of an insidious kidney infection that we just couldn’t prove. My IM was fine with that. It might or might not have helped, but again, lots of moving parts and we were pretty much wracking our brains and throwing everything at the wall to see if anything would stick. I don’t recall what Tubby’s creatinine and BUN were at the end, but I’ll see if I can track that down. The urine SG was very low.
I’ve lost other cats to kidney disease as well as a dog. It’s rough. I want to say that the dog’s creatinine was up around 10, but she had fully stopped eating and her bone marrow had all but ceased producing red blood cells, so it was clear there was no way back.
I hope you have more time with Copernicus. He is much more than numbers on a sheet of paper. You’ve advocated so so hard for him. Give him lots of love and a few head scratches from me. I’ll be sending positive energy your direction.
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
He's very anemic. 20%. No treatment prescribed for that. His phos is high at 6.4 it's been 7. His electrolytes aren't bad. K is 4. What's so baffling his that his BG was good on 18. Alls I did was increase to 20 and it's like a bomb went off.
JL and Chip
Member Since 2009
Actually there were more variables, if I recall. He had been at the ER on IV fluids, there was a recent skipped shot and significant dose reduction, and so on. Remember to draw a box around multiple days (like 4 or 5) and look at the totality of the situation, not just one or two cycles. The depot plays a role. And with Lantus, we’re shooting based on where we expect the BG to go, not necessarily where it is right now. It sure looked to me like he had one or two decent cycles at 18u but the freight train was already quietly gaining momentum toward the blacks. Trying to catch up after the fact is hard. And 18u might have appeared “good” in that moment, but it’s likely an illusion, so I wouldn’t get too hung up on that particular dose.
Do you feed filtered water at home or have any supplements he gets that aren’t on board at the hospital? Many things can impact BG. I’m always looking for deltas…
Krista & Copernicus
Member Since 2026
He gets Brita water at home and they didn't do his supplements like b12, hyaluronic acid, etc. his depot is still whack because my husband just went to visit and they are increasing him to 25 units and I just did 22 units Saturday night.
Delayed response, today is Canadian Thanksgiving. Neko's EOL reason was hard to pinpoint. She had heart disease and kidney disease, and small cell lymphoma. She was also anemic, around .27 so not quite as low as Copernicus. The treatment for heart disease (highest priority) was hard on kidneys and kidney treatment was hard on the heart. Her arthritis was also quite severe. It just got to be time, less good days than bad.
As I said above, Neko's kidney values weren't too dissimilar, but we were battling other things too. Including chemo. Any heart issues made her BG skyrocket. But overall her BG was mostly under renal threshold with the odd short lasting bobble into the higher numbers. The best thing for Neko's kidney values was giving fluids. Unfortunately, her heart could not stand it so we had to stop.
What days are you talking about? In July he was "meh" on 18 units but better on 19. Until he wasn't. That's the way acroemegaly can work. The tumour can grow and pulse and release more growth hormone that it was. Causing higher insulin resistance and the need for more insulin. July 2015 Neko was coasting around 3 units when her tumour woke up and I had to keep climbing up to 7. That's not a big dose compared to Copernicus, but it's over doubling her insulin needs in a very short period of time. She was decently regulated around 3.0 units, so it was very easy for me to see how fast things accelerated. The tumour can also shrink on it's own, reducing the amount of insulin needed. I hope the hospital can get his BG into a better range.