10/10 Butters PMBG 103 Staying overnight in ER

Good. I feel better about them. I started to start a conversation with you with some off the radar ways to get meds but it wouldn’t go through. If they will medicate one of my ideas was to keep her there until she could get a second cerenia shot.

So my memory was right about the vet. Yea for me. Lol. Levity needed.

It does seem like pancreatitis is likely. I’m glad all the other results are normal. My vet never bases anything on one test for chronic illnesses except for diagnosing pancreatitis. This is a perfect example why. Outside labs are usually more reliable too. I say usually because Antech lost Mocha’s SpecFpl and ran it many days later making it invalid. She recovered from whatever she had and I don’t think it was pancreatitis so we never ran another one.
 
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Canada—-ah! Yes—-a Holiday weekend on top of it....definitely need to make sure you get meds.
Very strange and not common practice.
 
I try to use "natural" remedies when at all possible. Slippery Elm is all I've ever given my cats for nausea. You can read about it here https://draxe.com/pet-health/slippery-elm-for-pets/

Ravan vomited foam yesterday (he does that occasionally) I mixed 1/2 teaspoon of Slippery Elm in water so it wasn't thick & gave it to him in a feeding syringe. He ate fine an hour later & he's feeling good today.

Both my kitties with kidney disease get 2 drops of a good quality CBD oil, mixed in 1/2 teaspoon of Plain Chicken baby food mixed with a tiny bit of water then into a feeding syringe. CBD helps with pain & definitely increases their appetite.

2 yrs ago my kitty Peggy Sue had oral cancer. I gave her 2 drops of CBD & she ate good every day even on the day she died! She lived over a year with the oral cancer. Good CBD in Canada https://cbdoilguide.ca/

I try not to use pharmaceuticals for me or my animals.
 
I will do anything and everything I can to not take her away from there without meds. Good point about Thanksgiving weekend. I hadn't even thought of that. At least a couple of days' worth. It's crazy how much they are charging me to keep her there. I'm so confused as to what it is to them if I pay them for some extra meds for her.
Maybe I came across as an addict?
 
Lyla, I'm sure you've thought of this but I know how crazy things can get at the ER Vet so just wanted to see if your vet from the other day is open on Saturdays (& on the holiday)? Maybe worth a phone call over there to see if anyone picks up, explain the situation and ask for meds.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Maybe I came across as an addict?
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Also, this made me laugh a little but I think it's just ER Vet practice...I think they are just trying to guide people back to their family vet. Though clearly with the holiday and Butters conditions, they need to give the rx for meds; I like the idea of asking for a manager/supervisor.

My ER vet gave me an Rx for Lantus when Jax was diagnosed with FD but wouldn't give me one for Rx food...I don't get their logic lol (And of course I didn't know any better at the time about the food but I had to go to my vet to get the rx for food).
 
When u get diagnosis your vet should give u the pain meds and anti nausea meds and i can’t believe the er won’t
If it is pancreatitis she should start eating as soon as the nausea and pain goes away, are they giving her any??
 
Just saw they did, I can tell u cause I don’t know a lot about it either since Andy was just diagnosed Thursday but he started eating some that night after I gave meds at 5:30pm and he was eating much better the next day
Sending prayers
 
They took waaaay too long to start giving her pain meds and anti nausea meds in my opinion. They did all of the diagnostic stuff first. I guess they did what they had to do?! I kept saying to please give her meds asap it was so obvious she is in pain.

LOL Susanne....seriously? And I can walk into any drugstore here and purchase a boatload of Lantus no prescription required. Go figure.
 
I really like ondansetron. One thing to know, the brand Zofran is outrageously expensive in Canada. You definitely want a generic - even then it'll still probably run you $4-5 per pill. Dosing is typically around 1/2 a pill couple times a day. Do shop around if you get a written prescription, prices vary a lot.
 
Funny. I know bupre is controlled substance but my vets were very generous with it for me. Now injectable cerenia was another story. When vet said no, I replied but you will give me all the bupre and gabapentin I want. He handed me a bottle.
 
Olive & Paula said:
Funny. I know bupre is controlled substance but my vets were very generous with it for me. Now injectable cerenia was another story. When vet said no, I replied but you will give me all the bupre and gabapentin I want. He handed me a bottle.
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It is definitely the thought process that it is a “diversion” tactic to not give syringes for those who might abuse drugs because people have actually used vet offices for “supplies” :(. However, if a person has a level of addiction to be at the point of using the vet, trust me that they either already have at least one syringe or certainly can get one. The vet office not providing a syringe is not going to stop them :banghead:. I empathize that they don’t want to have to deal with an uncomfortable situation if it comes up but it is ridiculous.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
I will do anything and everything I can to not take her away from there without meds. Good point about Thanksgiving weekend. I hadn't even thought of that. At least a couple of days' worth. It's crazy how much they are charging me to keep her there. I'm so confused as to what it is to them if I pay them for some extra meds for her.
Maybe I came across as an addict?
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I just wanted to mention this: Urgent Care/Emergency medicine docs are reluctant to prescribe pain medications as they are strictly scrutinized for giving pain meds/prescriptions other than the most minimal quantities.

The expectation is that the patient is supposed to receive these meds from their 'primary' doctor. In this case, that would be Butters' regular vet...since you're in flux with vets right now, perhaps the best thing to do would be to get as much in writing about her diagnosis and contact your old vet (I'm not thrilled with that guy)...but perhaps he would understand that she does have an on-going issue and would give you a prescription for a short term (perhaps a month) of medication that would meet the criteria of being 'under the supervision of her doctor'.

Urgent Care/ED's will give a maintenance meds Rx if the patient run out, but to send you off with a 30 day supply of any controlled substance is unlikely...best you can hope for is a week's worth at max...

Luci got a tiny bottle of gabapentin when she broke her foot and she didn't like it...so it was a waste anyway...but that probably would not have lasted more than a week at best - we were instructed to 'see her regular vet' for follow up and prescriptions should they be needed.

I hope this information is helpful.
 
I had the same thought as Wendy. Releasing Butters with no meds and no chance of getting meds on a Sunday is just stupid unless they figure you'll be back on Sunday because your kitty is feeling so lousy. If they can't dispense from the ER, why can't they write a prescription? You can get buprenorphine at any pharmacy. (Granted, they will think you're in chemical dependency treatment -- it's Suboxone and used when people are detoxing)

@Sue and Luci - I've seen patients who have gotten an Rx for a controlled substance from the ER. You are correct -- it's not a month's supply. Usually, they will give an Rx for a few days of the medication since they understand that a person may not be able to get an immediate appointment with their doctor.
 
I just remembered you mentioning a vet that will come to the house but you will need a clinic for bloodwork. Is there any chance you are able to contact that vet to get them started and see if they are comfortable prescribing meds upon discharge? I still think you need to ask for a supervisor at the ER clinic if the current vet continues to refuse to provide a proper discharge plan for continuation of meds until you see your regular vet.

My guess is the home visit vet may have some quality recommendations for clinics to use &/or ones their clients currently use without issues. I’ve used a home visit vet and she has a lot of great contacts :)
 
Thank you so much for posting, sending positivity and sharing so much of your knowledge to help Butters and me :bighug:. Thanks doesn't seem like enough.

I finally got an update. They have been giving Butters iv fluid. Her bladder is full but she won't pee, no obstruction. Bladder feels normal. They think she is stressed and have her in the quietest part of the hospital. They are giving her cerenia and buprenorphine and another anti nausea that no one has mentioned and I forgot the name of.:banghead:
They offered her some diabetic ex food. She wouldn't have anything to do with it. Then offered her regular food. She is still sniffing and licking like she wants to eat...but then not eating. :(
I am worried that the bupre could be impacting her appetite. I don't know. They had originally thought she'd be able to come home around midnight but they will call back in a few hours and I think that she will just be staying overnight. I def won't take her home if I am not equipped to keep her comfy. What if she doesn't eat when she gets home? I'll make sure I am prepared to do something for her first.
The vet says a GI issue is still possible, like IBD. So I may have to get her an ultrasound.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
She is still sniffing and licking like she wants to eat...but then not eating. :(
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Sounds like she's still nauseated....I hope she can at least rest...maybe if she can relax later in the evening when it gets really quiet she'll pee...Luci won't pee at the vets office either...silly girl.

At some point she'll pee...poor baby...sending many prayers and support for you both.

Strong strong healing vines for you and Butters tonight!!:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
AWWW!!!! Poor baby:bighug::bighug: Amethyst did not pee or poo the two days and night she was in the hospital. They had to give her a mild sedative to get her to relax. Sending lots of love,light and healing:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you for the update:bighug:

Those calls are stressful:(. It sounds like Butters is stressed but hopefully will begin to feel better and finally eat for them once the fluids & anti nausea help a bit more.

I am relieved they are going to do an US. While xrays are good for seeing some things, they are not as good for really getting good views of the organs, including intestines, pancreas, liver, lymph nodes, spleen. A lot that can be looked at more closely with US.

My guess is the anti nausea is ondansetron (also known as Zofran)?

I would be inclined to have Butters stay at the hospital to continue to get IV fluids because those are so helpful and also to get the US done.

Hang in there. Will be thinking about you both and sending healing vibes your way!!!
 
Thank YOU for the information and support :bighug:

To be honest I am exhausted.
If they say she should stay overnight and they should do an ultrasound, I will tell them to go ahead and do that.

I called that DVM ND vet who does home visits (well, phone appointments right now) and left her a message and I emailed her. Haven't heard anything back, yet. I hope I hear back from her soon. I bet she is at her cottage as it is a long weekend in Canada, which doesn't help me. I think she would work with me to ensure Butters has what she needs and is comfortable, if only I can connect with her.

I asked them specifically if she was being given ondansetron as well because they kept saying just Cerenia. The vet said no, they aren't using that for her, but are using something with the Cerenia. I remember that part of the conversation clearly.
I will definitely ask to speak to the clinic manager and ensure I have a proper discharge plan in place for Butters.
 
You have done everything you can for now.....except for getting some much needed rest. You have made calls and have a solid plan to speak with whoever you need to at that clinic to get what you need for Butters.

Maybe drop another call and email to the home vet tomorrow. I’m sure if she hasn’t gotten back to you she will. Most home vets are good about checking emails and voicemails even on holidays.

It’s good they have another drug being used with Cerenia. Cerenia is good but is often combined with odansetron or other anti nausea med...even at home. T has required combination along with Bupe in the past.

I hope you are able to get something to eat and some rest at some point :bighug:
 
I did eat, thank you.:bighug: I thought I'd just mope around the house here and worry about Butters, especially being so tired. But I made a spur of the moment decision to drive outside of the city to see my new niece, it is our thanksgiving weekend so I got a nice meal too. :) I moped and worried about Butters while playing with a cute human baby at the same time. But I'd have traded that time with my niece in a second if it meant Butters would be here and not at the vet hospital.

I will drop another call to that home vet for sure.

Final update for tonight:
The gave me one last phone call. No change. Still not eating or peeing. They are trying some mirtazapine. Her PMBG is 103 and the vet was too scared to give her any insulin at all because she isn't eating. I would've liked for her to get something, but it was just as well as I was terrified they'd give her too much. I don't think they have much experience with Glargine insulins from the sounds of things. She has been doing so well so I hope this doesn't derail her progress too much, but somehow this feels like the lesser thing to be worried about right now.

The overnight vet is there now and mainly just for emergencies and monitoring. Won't call with an update unless something bad happens. So the next call will be in the morning and then will get a status update and discuss ultrasound.
 
A thought for you, I've quite easily gotten buprenorphine from an ER and also a weekend vet that wasn't my usual vet. Might be slightly different in Canada than the US. In BC at least, the vet needs to use a special prescription pad if you want to get buprenorphine elsewhere. Which I cause it became an every day drug for Neko, and also got it chicken flavoured at a compounding pharmacy. Plus the preloaded syringes are very pricey.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of insulin. Butters will get back on track. For now, sleep for you is key, catch it while you can. :bighug:
 
I’m happy to hear you left the house and got away for a bit :). A nice meal and seeing your new niece sounds really fun :bighug:!

Hopefully the Mirtazapine does the trick and tomorrow brings news of improvement and more information. Butters will get back on track with the DM :bighug:.

Healing thoughts, vibes, prayers....all of it is being sent your way :)! I hope you can get some sleep—-like a brick sleep!!
 
Wendy&Neko said:
A thought for you, I've quite easily gotten buprenorphine from an ER and also a weekend vet that wasn't my usual vet. Might be slightly different in Canada than the US. In BC at least, the vet needs to use a special prescription pad if you want to get buprenorphine elsewhere. Which I cause it became an every day drug for Neko, and also got it chicken flavoured at a compounding pharmacy. Plus the preloaded syringes are very pricey.

I wouldn't worry too much about the lack of insulin. Butters will get back on track. For now, sleep for you is key, catch it while you can. :bighug:
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I'm in Ontario. This particular ER vet is saying they won't write an RX for anything because they believe her primary care vet should write RXs. It's a bit more challenging because I have to do everything over the phone since their staff won't have contact with humans, only pets. I can't reason with them face-to-face. At this point I'm just hoping they work with me to come up with a plan for her care for when she does get home, and give me enough of any necessary meds to tide her over for a week at least. Maybe they will change their tune after having her in their care. They know her better now, at least.
 
Part of me is dreading sleep because she sleeps curled up pressed against me every single night...and she's probably sad and wondering where I am. I have been trying not to think of it and now of course I just thought of it. I'm going to have something to take the edge off and hopefully pass out. A brick-like sleep sounds pretty tantalizing.
 
Mocha would not eat at all when I had her at the ER. I think that was one reason they didn’t fight me much when I took her home after 24 hours.
 
Butters & Lyla said:
Part of me is dreading sleep because she sleeps curled up pressed against me every single night...and she's probably sad and wondering where I am. I have been trying not to think of it and now of course I just thought of it. I'm going to have something to take the edge off and hopefully pass out. A brick-like sleep sounds pretty tantalizing.
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:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Thank you :bighug:
Yeah why force her to stay longer than necessary if she won't eat...Tomorrow will make a decision on whether to do an ultrasound, and then as long as they will give me what I need to manage her needs at home, we go home.
 
:(
Butters & Lyla said:
Part of me is dreading sleep because she sleeps curled up pressed against me every single night...and she's probably sad and wondering where I am. I have been trying not to think of it and now of course I just thought of it. I'm going to have something to take the edge off and hopefully pass out. A brick-like sleep sounds pretty tantalizing.
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I am praying she’s not sad and is instead starting to feel a bit better with the IV Fluids and meds. I think they, like us, get to a point where they feel so lousy that the only thing they need is relief from some medical treatment. That’s the thought that has always helped me with the hospitalizations, tests etc.. My T, like Butters, is a snuggly man but when he has been ill the poor guy doesn’t even want to be touched:(

Butters will be back home by your side soon :bighug:
 
JoyBee&Ravan said:
I try to use "natural" remedies when at all possible. Slippery Elm is all I've ever given my cats for nausea. You can read about it here https://draxe.com/pet-health/slippery-elm-for-pets/

Ravan vomited foam yesterday (he does that occasionally) I mixed 1/2 teaspoon of Slippery Elm in water so it wasn't thick & gave it to him in a feeding syringe. He ate fine an hour later & he's feeling good today.

Both my kitties with kidney disease get 2 drops of a good quality CBD oil, mixed in 1/2 teaspoon of Plain Chicken baby food mixed with a tiny bit of water then into a feeding syringe. CBD helps with pain & definitely increases their appetite.

2 yrs ago my kitty Peggy Sue had oral cancer. I gave her 2 drops of CBD & she ate good every day even on the day she died! She lived over a year with the oral cancer. Good CBD in Canada https://cbdoilguide.ca/

I try not to use pharmaceuticals for me or my animals.
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Slippery Elm has been on my mind a lot, lately. I saw it mentioned on Tanya's site as well. I have Marshmallow Root (also mentioned) but I may buy some slippery elm. And thank you for the links. I'm glad you were able to help Peggy Sue have a good quality of life right up until the end. :bighug:
 
Aww Lyla :bighug: I hope Butters has an ok night at the vet and hope she feels better soon!

The ERs reluctance to give you meds makes me want to check out my cat medicine cabinet. We should really clean it out soon :confused: We have everything from antibiotics to steroids. Expired, of course. :facepalm:
 
Oh Lyla , I so sorry Butters isn't feeling well. I'm glad her kidney numbers came down, great news.
I'd want to speak to a manager or supervisor also.
You say to them, if this was your cat would you like to be sent home with no meds
and seeing your cat in pain.
Tell them your vet is closed until Tuesday, so what do you want me to do, watch her
suffer in pain.
Man it's not like that are writing you a script morphine.
Some of them really piss me off.
I'm praying that Butters starts to eat .
Please take care of yourself
Keep us updated ♥♥:bighug::bighug:
 
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Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Oh Lyla , I so sorry Butters isn't feeling well. I'm glad her kidney numbers came down, great news.
I'd want to speak to a manager or supervisor also.
You say to them, if this was your cat would you like to be sent home with no meds
and seeing your cat in pain.
Tell them your get is closed until Tuesday, so what do you want me to do, watch her
suffer in pain.
Man it's not like that are writing you a script morphine.
Some of them really piss me off.
I'm praying that Butters starts to eat .
Please take care of yourself
Keep us updated ♥♥:bighug::bighug:
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Totally agree with Diane
U go gettm Diane
Makes me :mad: Don’t mess with my cat and her pain
 
I hope you got some rest overnight and that Butters has improved. Not peeing at all has to be so uncomfortable for her. I hope the vet calls you with an improved update. Thinking of you both :bighug:
 
Good morning Lyla. I totally missed all of this yesterday. I am SOOOOOO sorry you’re going through all of this with Butters. I hope you get some good results today and Butters can come home with you, with proper pain and anti-nausea meds. I’ve had some difficulties with ON vets but I have a gem now. All this advice for you is also helping me to know what to ask for on Tuesday since Milo is also dealing with pancreatitis.
Big hugs to you both. Take care of yourself.
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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