10/07 Balki AM shot at +2

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JC & Balki

JC & Balki

Member Since 2011
Hi,

I am new to this forum. I just need to know, what happens when the AM shot is given at +2? Do we go back to the normal PM shot time immediately, gradually work our way back, or are all shots now on the new schedule? Sorry for the brief message, just I am in a hurry. Thanks. Juliet
 
Hi JC!

I'm in a hurry, too, so this will be short. You'll need to do your evening shot 12 hours from your AM shot. You can start slowly shifting back to your regular shot time. Personally, I'm pretty conserative about shifting: I'll shoot 15 minutes earlier each time until I'm back on schedule. I think you can also shift in half hour increments, but please don't quote me on that. You definitely do not want to shoot at your regular shot time this evening.

Welcome aboard!

Amy
 
Hi Amy,

Thanks so much for your reply. Unfortunately, we did already shift the PM shot back half an hour. I wanted to wait the 12 hours, but at the moment I need someone to help me with the tests and shots, and they wanted me to do it at the regular time. We called our vet after hours, and he also said to do the PM shot at the regular time. I was very concerned about doing that, so as a compromise, we did the PM shot half an hour early. I just feel really stressed that I am making a big mess of things, but it's done now, so I can't fix it.

I really appreciate your help!

Juliet
 
Try to make sure that you give the shots 12 hours apart. It takes time for the kitty to create a shed of insulin, and it needs time to fill up so that kitty can use it. Since you gave your PM shot at 9:30, try and make sure that you make the AM shot at 9:30, and so forth. Kitty will get less stressed out over time, and testing will become second nature to you, also. This is new for both you and kitty. It'll take time for you both. Otherwise, you're doing great. :)
 
Hi guys and welcome from us! Looks like you got your question answered so that's good .. Like Angela said, it's always best to shoot lantus on a strict 12/12 schedule, but sometimes life happens and that isn't always possible .. Hope you plan to stick around here, there's a ton of helpful information and people .. have a great day!
 
Things will be fine, maybe just a little bobble in the numbers. Amy is right , the conservative way is 15 minutes every cycle, but you can also do it 30 minutes once a day. That's what you did , so the next shot is the full 12 hours after that. Then you can repeat the pattern.

We usually only do the 15 minute because w/ Lantus an early shot effects the shed like a decrease increase***, more insulin on to of the dose that is still working. A late shot is like a decrease, drainging the shed which then needs to refill.

***AAck pre coffee typing that was incorrect, sorry
 
Thanks very much. We will definitely try to keep it at 9:30 now. I was just being pressured to keep the regular time, and I don't feel confident to do the tests and shots on my own yet. I will have to speed up my learning process, because I can't let this happen again. I will have to learn to do this on my own.
 
JC sorry, my previous post was wrong, all I can plead is no coffee yet. :oops: An early shot is equivalent to an INCREASE, so you could see a little more action from the dose.
 
You did just fine! Like I said, I'm a bit conservative, but the 30 minute once a day shift is fine, too!

IMO, the more important thing here is that you questioned your vet's dangerous suggestion that you shoot at the regular time! Great catch, and kudos to you for making a much safer decision. Balki is lucky to have you on his side!!

I was nervous about doing shots on my own at first, too. Comfort does come with time...you'll get there!

Have a great day - or night, I guess. I have no idea what time it is in Australia right now :lol: !

Amy
 
Hi Ann,

That's okay, I completely understood what you meant. So it's a pretty bad thing really, to give a way late shot, followed by a slightly early shot, in one day. What a mess.

Many thanks to you all for helping me understand this :smile:
 
Thanks heaps Amy!

I really appreciate your efforts to make me feel better about the mess I've made! I wanted to do it the conservative way too. I don't understand why our vet gave that advice.

It's actually just after midnight here in Queensland! I don't get much sleep lately anyway, because I feel a need to watch Balki as much as possible. I am still pretty overwhelmed by it all. The time from Balki's first symptoms to diagnosis was pretty fast, and I still feel in shock really. I know things will get easier as time goes on, but I probably won't feel less stressed until I can cope with it all on my own, not having to rely on others to be around to help me.
 
You haven't made a big mess! Things happen...fur shots, delays, life in general. It happens to everyone, and you guys will get back on track. Just remember: safety first!

The advice your vet gave you isn't all that unusual. My vet gave us all sorts of wacky advice when Trix was diagnosed back in January, too. Before we found this site, in a nutshell they told us it as basically OK to shoot her when was convenient for us - even if that meant shooting 8 hours after her previous shot! Fortunately, we did catch on pretty quickly. I think most vets don't expect us caretakers to be as diligent as the folks of this group are - and they're probably right.

We all understand that feeling of being overwhelmed...believe me, we've all been there! I don't think I was comfortable shooting or testing Trixie by myself for the first month or so. Now, we've all got the routine down pat, and I can shoot here where ever she happens to be when it's shot time. So, it really, truly does get easier!

Just keep asking questions...this group is extremely generous with both knowledge and support. We'll do anything we can to help you over the learning curve!

Amy
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!

Although, you already are in Lantus Land. I hope you know that the vet who developed the dosing protocol we use, Jacqui Rand, DVM, is at University of Queensland. Dr. Rand directs Centre for Animal Companion Health there and is a premier researcher regarding Lantus for the treatment of feline diabetes.

All of us have had to move a shot time for one reason or another. It's not that big of a deal. In fact, with low pre-shot numbers, it's not uncommon for someone to stall for an hour or two in order to wait for numbers to rise. (Or, you get stuck in traffic, there's an emergency, etc. -- life happens.) The key principle to keep in mind is that an early shot acts like a dose increase whereas a late shot acts like a dose decrease. All of this has an impact on the insulin depot (or what we refer to as a "shed"). In order to minimize the effect on the shed, we shift time as gradually as we can. In Balki's case, you are already seeing really good numbers. You don't want to move your shot time more than 30 min. earlier at one time because it may cause his numbers to unexpectedly drop lower.

When you have a chance, please take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board. They will help you to get oriented and feel less overwhelmed. (Although, there's a huge volume of information in those notes!) Please ask questions and let us know how we can help. I hope you'll continue to post regularly.
 
I didn't want you to feel you had "messed up" ! Just to not move the shot back too fast. Balki will get back to his schedule and should do fine. :-D :-D

Soon you will get to be able to handle him on your own too. this is just very new for both of you. Many of us do the test, get the food and shot ready and then give the shot while their faces are buried in their bowls. They barely even notice! :lol:
 
Thanks so much everyone! :smile: I'm really relieved to have found Lantus Land!! You are all so welcoming, experienced and helpful, it makes me feel so much better. I was finding it hard not to feel incredibly depressed about the situation before I found this amazing forum.

Yes, I did read some of the sticky notes the other day, but having read so much in the last few weeks, coupled with my anxiety over doing the wrong thing, I can't seem to retain the important data let alone utilize it for quick decisions! I did read about the shed and how not to let it deplete etc, though didn't recall about the shifts being like an increase/decrease. I also feel torn and confused when my vet gives differing advice. That is so scary to think of the impact on Balki's numbers.

Yes, our vet mentioned the Qld Uni research to us the day Balki had his diagnostic tests. That's why we were shocked when he didn't then want us to follow that protocol. Perhaps he just thought it was unsafe for the first few weeks. And I'm sure you are right about the vets thinking we are not capable of the diligence required. Our vet is on holiday now, and he has remained in contact with us via another vet. As of today, they will actually be consulting with Jacquie Rand to help Balki!! So things have dramatically improved in that regard.

I hope you're right that Balki will soon not even notice! He has the sweetest nature, and is very easy to manage when I have someone to help me, or when he is at the vet and frightened. However, when it's just me, he has no fear and knows he can get away with a lot more! I hope I am soon able to do the tests and shots wherever Balki may be at the time, rather than having to capture him and sit him in a room where he can't escape. That's the part he hates the most because he probably thinks we're taking him back to the vet. I fear he would never just sit there and let me do the tests & shots, if he had the choice to walk away, even if food was involved!

Don't worry, you didn't make me feel like I had messed up, I did that all on my own!
 
Balki has some really nice numbers now. You never know, with the diet change he could go OTJ (off the juice) quite early. Keep up the good work. From your description your vet sounds a bit pushy.
 
Balki is beautiful!

Although it's hard to believe, the routine of testing and shooting can actually develop into a special time between kitty and bean. Just the extra, and more focused, attention serves as a bonding agent. My kitty and I have always enjoyed a very special connection since I hand raised her, but I am tuned into her her now in ways I never was before. The testing doesn't really hurt their little ears as much as it seems like it would, and if followed by low carb treats, and maybe a bit of neosporin, it can become something they come for willingly.

Good luck!
 
I am trying not to think about OTJ (I wondered what that meant!) in case it's not a possibility for Balki. I know I should have fully implemented the diet changes already to give him the best chance. The gradual approach seems to be a mistake, but I will have to continue that way now.

Aww, thanks! Weezer is gorgeous too - your avatar is so adorable!! I must admit, I had never heard of neosporin! I'm not sure if it's available in Australia, or if there's an equivalent product here. I wish I could find some low carb treats here to give Balki after the tests. I will keep trying to find something he likes. I hope Balki will really appreciate the extra attention and fuss too, once he becomes accustomed to the whole process.
 
Balki is really cute, he looks like he is sitting in a high chair. :lol:

Wow! Jacquie Rand in person, congrats! :thumbup

Neosporin is a brand name of antibiotic wound ointment found over the counter here, there are a lot of other brands. Just check the first aid supply section. As for the treats what most of us use is freeze dried chicken, check out the dog treat section of the pet store too. the bags are bigger and cheaper. If you can't find it look at camping stores, for backpacking foods. Sometimes you can find it as a single ingredient item there, but don't get it if there is anything else in it. Or just some cubes of plain cooked chicken are always welcomed. :-D
 
:lol: Actually, that's Balki in one of his cat trees (a Catnex). He does sit in the hammocks in some really funny positions.

Tess is beautiful - what a gorgeous pose!!

Thanks very much for the suggestions, I'll have a look and see what I can find next week. I would be lost without this forum.
 
A gradual food transition is fine! Many cats who have been eating dry or even canned high carb food will balk at being rapidly shifted to canned, low carb food. One of the feline nutrition sites we refer to a lot even gives information on transitioning a cat. A transition is far better than a stubborn cat that refuses to eat and goes on a hunger strike!

A couple of suggestions that may help with tests and shots --
  • When testing, give treats. Even if it's an unsuccessful test, Balki gets treats. You want the testing experience to be associated with a positive reinforcement. Most of use food as a reward. Freeze dried chicken is a very popular treat for many cats. Others really like tuna/bonito flakes or jerky-style treats. You want to find a low carb treat -- not anything that is like kibble. Many people will also use some cooked or raw chicken as a treat. There have been some cats who are totally disinterested with treats. One person used brushing as a reward since it was something her cat really liked. Also, praise, scratching Balki's favorite spots, etc. helps to cement the process.
  • Think about where you're testing. I use a kitchen counter. It's at a good height for me to see what I'm doing. I also have good lighting where I'm testing. Gabby is not a cat that will usually get on a counter on her own so when I call her, she know that this is her test spot. Cats like routine so having a spot where you do the vast majority of your testing will help to establish that routine.
  • When I shoot, I inject while Gabby has her head in her food bowl. She's very motivated by food so she pays minimal attention to what I'm doing. It also means that her shots are associated with food. This doesn't work with all cats but it does for many of them.
 
Thanks so much for all those fantastic suggestions. That makes me feel better about the gradual food transition. That was my fear, that he would just not eat. I want to do the right thing though, to give him the best chance of remission.

I haven't been giving Balki treats after the tests because I just didn't know what to give. He's never really been interested in treats, but then there's not much available where we live. I did finally find some Bonito Flakes the other day, but was so disappointed when Balki showed no interest in them. I'm not sure I will be able to buy freeze dried chicken here, but that's probably my best bet at finding something he'd like. He does eat raw chicken, but he doesn't love it enough that he would consider it a treat. Thanks, I'll look into the jerky type treats too. Balki has always hated being brushed, unfortunately. That's something else I struggle with every day. I have tried every type of brush and comb available over the years.

Yes, I think feeding him will be the only way to do the shot by myself. Plus, you're right, it does have that bonus of associating the shot with something good. I just hope this method works with Balki.

We are using a counter too, but no good lighting. I have to use a torch at the moment, so things will definitely be easier when I fix that.
 
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