1/8 Jackson +5 = 119 +6=166

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JacksonCatson

JacksonCatson

Member Since 2012
Jack is at 119...thoughts?

Thanks for the advice re: tomorrow morning. I think I'll likely stick with f1u just to keep things stable, esp. since I have an obligation tomorrow evening. Talked to his vet today, and she'd like him back to 1.5 u, and he make likely end up there, but that 327-->74 scared me.

Thanks,
Sarah


ACK! With all the hub-bub today -- low numbers, stalled shots, talking with the vet, etc., PLUS doing some calculations to move his shot up 15 mins b/c tomorrow I need to leave home early in the evening, I accidentally gave Jackson his PM shot 1 hour and 10 mins early (so 55 minutes earlier than I intended)! Where is my head?! Poor kitty.

The good news is that I don't think there's too much risk of his dipping too low as his numbers are fairly high and I gave him a 1.0 (fat) dose (vs. 1.5) to stabilize him a bit. But then I went and messed with the timing. Ugh.

Everything is in his SS, but to recap (also see the rest of the thread):

+11 (from last night's shot) 146
AMPS: 183
+2.5: 234
+4: 252
+6.5: 228
+10.5: 280

I'm thinking that the most dangerous time would be in the next few hours? I'm planning to do +1/+2/+3 tests, but can anyone advise as to what else to look out for?

Thanks,
Sarah

Hi all,

Newbie here with my cat Jackson, a sweet 4.5-year-old 13.2-lb neutered male. He was diagnosed just before Thanksgiving. Transitioned to wet food (currently 2.5 cans of FF classic) before insulin and currently at 1.5 u of Lantus.

A few days ago, he had a very unexpected dip -- 327 at AMPS and 74 at +11 -- I didn't do any mid-cycle testing, so I'm not sure how low he dropped, but he didn't display any symptoms. We had recently switched (within about four days) to a slightly different food routine, but it would surprise me if that's the reason.

I was away for the next day so I greatly reduced his dose (.5) so that I wouldn't worry all day. A few cycles later and he seems to be re-adjusted now, but now I'm faced with lower numbers than I'm used to shooting and I don't have much data to go on. I'm nervous to give his normal 1.5 u dose given that 327-->74 drop he had a few days ago, but I'm not sure how much to cut back to keep things manageable.

I will get used to shooting at lower numbers -- I'm just not there yet! Thanks in advance for any advice.

Sarah and Jackson
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Hi Sarah & Welcome :smile:

Sorry I can't give shooting advice, hopefully someone else can help you soon.
It is a rising number, maybe grab one more test to confirm this before deciding?
Rising numbers are generally safer to shoot than level (or dropping)

And to help your advice-giver;
Will you be home to monitor, have plenty of test strips and some high-carb food and/or syrup on hand?
Will shooting late foul up your schedule (shots 12 hours apart, ability to monitor PM cycle etc.)?

I know how daunting shooting lower than usual numbers - you guys are doing great :smile:
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Welcome, Sarah!

No worries about shooting lower numbers. No one expect that you can be used to shooting numbers in the 300s one day and numbers in the 100s the next. We use 150 as our, "Post and ask for help" pre-shot number. The Health board uses a higher numbers. We can help you to get more comfortable with gradually shooting lower.

One question that's important to know is whether you're home during the day to test. No one wants to yell, "Shoot!" if you've never shot low only to find out you can't monitor. We'll also keep an eye on you so you have the support you need since most people find that it's a nail biter the first several times they are dealing with low numbers.

One thing to keep in mind is that numbers in the 70s are very safe. In addition, you usually don't see as big a drop when you're shooting lower numbers as when you are starting with a number in the 300s or higher. Your kitty can build up considerable momentum when dropping from higher ranges. Often when you shoot low, you'll see a flatter cycle.

With today's numbers, the fact that you tested at +11 and see a rise in numbers by your AMPS is very helpful data. It tells you that, as you'd expect, at the end of the insulin cycle, numbers are heading up. It will be safe to shoot. What I would suggest is that you get a +1 and +2 test. We always suggest getting early tests when you're shooting lower than you're used to shooting. Of course, there are always the caveats -- are you around to monitor, do you have strips and high carb food should you need it?
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Thanks, all!

I ended up shooting a fat-ish 1 u, mainly because I wanted to play it safe. I also ended up shooting about 30 minutes late, so I figure that's a slight decrease as well. Probably over-doing it, but I'm just not accustomed to low numbers and how Jack responds. And, I'm normally home during the day, but this morning I had to drive a friend to a doctor's appointment and will be gone until about +2.5.

So to give you a bit more information -- I work from home, so I'm generally around during the day. I just bought a new pack of test strips over the weekend, and I'm picking up some high-carb wet food now, so I will be set. I also have corn syrup on stock.

Will test him as soon as I get home and will post to get some advice. I'm glad to hear that things flatten out in the lower numbers -- that 327-->74 drop startled me, and I was afraid that he would repeat that kind of drop at 183 and then we'd be in big trouble!

Thanks again for your help!
Sarah
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Just so you don't end up calling me a liar at some point.... Our cats rarely will read the rule book. Numbers can drop when you're starting low -- usually because your cat has been signaling that it's time for a dose reduction. In addition, one of our favorite axioms always applies: Every cat is different (ECID). What applies to my cat may not apply to yours. As you collect test data, you'll begin to see trends that 'should' help you to predict Jackson's patterns. For now, you want to try to sort out where in the cycle his Lantus onset and nadir fall. (FYI: the nadir is not a fixed point. It can move around.)

When you have some time, could you put together a Profile on Jackson? This will give us a handy way to know his background and information about you. That way, we won't pester you with the same questions repeatedly.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Well, I'm home now and just did a BG test -- at +2.5, he's at 234 -- so I'm guessing the insulin hasn't kicked in yet (plus, he had breakfast). I guess I'll test in a bit and see how things go. I do have a profile ready -- just need to stick it in my signature. Will do that ASAP!

Thanks all -- so comforting to have this connection with people who understand.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +11 146 AMPS 183 -- dosing question

Hi guys and welcome to lantus land! Glad you got your questions answered and hopefully you won't have anymore of those scary dives .. but in case you do, there is almost always someone around here to walk you through it .. have a great day!
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

JacksonCatson said:
ACK! With all the hub-bub today -- low numbers, stalled shots, talking with the vet, etc., PLUS doing some calculations to move his shot up 15 mins b/c tomorrow I need to leave home early in the evening, I accidentally gave Jackson his PM shot 1 hour and 10 mins early (so 55 minutes earlier than I intended)! Where is my head?! Poor kitty.

The good news is that I don't think there's too much risk of his dipping too low as his numbers are fairly high and I gave him a 1.0 (fat) dose (vs. 1.5) to stabilize him a bit. But then I went and messed with the timing. Ugh.

Everything is in his SS, but to recap (also see the rest of the thread):

+11 (from last night's shot) 146
AMPS: 183
+2.5: 234
+4: 252
+6.5: 228
+10.5: 280

I'm thinking that the most dangerous time would be in the next few hours? I'm planning to do +1/+2/+3 tests, but can anyone advise as to what else to look out for?
Click to expand...

+2 and +3 will be a good start, but you can get a +1 if you want to. Please post those when you get them, ok? Hopefully the first few hours of the cycle will let us know which direction Jackson is going. He should be fine, but it's possible he could drop lower than usual tonight (or he might bounce high, who knows?).

Just a hint, if you have new information or a new question, the best thing to do is make a new post in your thread (just hit Reply and type your new information there). That will cause your thread to be bumped to the top of the board so you'll get noticed more quickly. If you just edit the first post and add new information there, the thread isn't bumped so people might not notice your question.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

Thanks, Libby. I will post the numbers after I test. I think I will skip the +1, as Jack is getting annoyed at all the testing today. Numbers to come in a few hours.

And thanks for the tip on posting -- I was trying to get the initial info in the post and am still figuring out how things work around here.

Glad that tomorrow is a new day ... @-)
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

yes, please get a +3.

Do you have high carb wet food on hand, in case you need to steer the cycle later on? And plenty of test strips?
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

Sarah:

Marje and I are providing some back up for Libby. She's on EST, I'm in CST and Marje's on PST so we've got plenty of hours when someone will be awake if you need a hand. Here's the running list of Jackson's numbers.

  • +11 (from last night's shot) 146
  • AMPS: 183
  • +2.5: 234
  • +4: 252
  • +6.5: 228
  • +10.5/PMPS: 280
  • +2: 204
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

Hi Sarah

Good job today and don't worry about accidentally shooting early. Things happen ...we adjust.

Libby has a work day tomorrow and asked Sienne and me to keep an eye out for you as we are on later time zones. If you can, please post your +3 in your subject line when you get it but we will be checking back in shortly.

Thanks!
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +3 195

Thanks, ladies -- this is really quite a community!

So Jackson is at 195 now. He is scheduled to get a 1/2 can of FF in about an hour, though he hasn't finished his dinner yet (neither has his civvie brother -- it's been warm here in Maryland, and even though they're indoor cats, they don't seem to be as hungry when it's warmer). Anyway, he may be ready to eat again (I just checked on him and he's chowing down now).

His numbers seem fine, but my question now is where to go from here. Should I maybe test through +6? Set my alarm and test later?

Thanks again!
Sarah and Jackson, who has endured the testing with grace. Still purring.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

How about a +5? I'll still be up to check on you.

Thanks for changing the subject line but you have to change it in the first post of the day. No worries...I did the same thing when we started out here...I didn't realize that editing a subsequent post in the condo didn't show up on the board list.

Thanks, Sarah.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

Welcome Sarah! You are in great hands! One bright side to this is that you should be all set for tomorrow! :roll: Don't worry we all do it once in a while.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

Ah, that makes senses -- I get the subject line hierarchy now! Thanks for explaining.

A +5 sounds good...will post it in the subject line properly this time. :-D

Also, I'm going to ask a question now that I know I'll have after the +5: What do I need to think about for his AM shot? We're just starting to hit some low numbers and I've had some unusual circumstances which have caused his doses to be bounced around. I'd really like to keep him at 1 u, if possible, for the next few days and see how he does -- but should I keep anything else in mind beyond the 150-threshold?

Thanks ! Will post again in about an hour.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

I would stick with your current dose. In general, you want to hold the dose for 3 days/6 cycles in order to evaluate the effectiveness of the dose unless a dose reduction is indicated. Holding the dose this long allows the depot to stabilize.

The 150 is the number we suggest a new member uses and if Jackson gives you a pre-shot number that's below 150, post and we'll lend a hand. You may want to read over or print out the sticky note on Shooting & Handling Low Numbers.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson HELP -- gave PM shot too early!

If possible, I'd get a +11 in the morning and if its anywhere near 150, post and ask for help and someone will watch for your AMPS. If his AMPS is above 150, just shoot the f1u like you did this morning and tonight.

I think he's going to need more insulin and we don't want him to sit on a reduced dose for long if its not getting him anywhere. I think the 1.5u was probably a better dose for him but let's see what he does tonight.

If you really want to keep him at the f1u, you can see what he does but I wouldn't leave him there long if you aren't seeing some decent numbers.

The other option is you can take him back up to 1.5u in the morning if he's on the way up and then give him six consecutive cycles to refill his depot. Whenever you skip a shot, stall, or shoot a reduced dose, the cycle count starts over.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

Sarah

Found you! In order to bump your post up to the top of the list so you don't get buried, when you want to add info, always hit "post reply" and put your comments there. I know it's confusing. To edit the subject line, you have to go to the first post but to add information, you add it to the bottom. You'll get it.

I think with him coming down tonight, I'd hold the dose and see what he does.

I'd check him at +6 and see where he is, ok? If you want to feed him a tsp of LC food now, you can.

Please post when you get his +6. Thank you!
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

I will figure out the posting!

Just fed him 1 tsp of LC food and will test again in 20 mins (which will be +6). Thanks.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

I know you will. Don't worry! I just want to be sure I don't miss your comments.

You are doing absolutely fine. There is alot at the beginning but it gets much better.

I'll see you at +6.
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

Hi Sarah, hi Marje!

Do I have this right?

PMPS (an hour early) 280 (fat 1.0u)
+2 204
+3 195
+5 119

Carl
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

Looks perfect. You are so good at those summaries, Carl!

Sarah....Carl is another one of our experienced members and we often tag team at night. I'm going to wait for your +6 and then I have to get to bed for work. If need be, Carl can be with you until +7 and I can get back up to check on you later if we need to. We won't leave you alone if he's still coming down, ok?
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

Hi Sarah,

I don't think we've "met", but glad to meet you! Just FYI, I didn't use Lantus with my sugarkitty, Bob. But I have done an awful lot of reading and studying and asked tons of questions here in LantusLand, and have done "this" with Marje and other wonderful people here many times. Like Marje said, once we start a late night adventure, we don't leave you alone until you're okay with everything. I can stay up an hour or two, and by that time, if things still are a concern, someone else will be here as well.

Carl
 
Re: 1/8 Jackson +5 = 119

Whew -- he's at 166 now, after the 1 tsp of food. I think we're likely in the clear now, yes?

I will plan to test at +11 and see how things look and hopefully will be in good shape to shoot at 1fu.

Again, thanks so much for all your help -- this is an incredible community and I very much appreciate your time.
 
I doubt it was the food that fast. It usually takes a little bit longer to affect the BG and LC doesn't typically have that much effect unless he's super carb sensitive...and he might be. Time will tell.

You did great tonight. He's...you should get a +11.

One other thing is that I usually like to see a rising, non food influenced number....that would be the norm. But because I think he was probably headed up anyway, I think you are ok for tonight.

Have a good rest! If you have any questions...go ahead and post and I will check them right before I turn out the light.
 
Sarah,
I'll be up another hour if you happen to get another test before calling it a night.

I'd also reiterate what Marje said earlier.
If you really want to keep him at the f1u, you can see what he does but I wouldn't leave him there long if you aren't seeing some decent numbers.
Click to expand...

I think staying with the fat 1u in the AM is a good plan. I'd just see how it goes for another cycle or two, and if your numbers aren't all that good, going up to 1.25u or back up to 1.5u would be something to consider. But what it comes down to is that you hold the needle, and it's always your call. We're always around to assist if needed.

Carl
 
Thanks! Well, he did eat a 1/2 can of FF at +3.45...and a few pieces of EVO dry after those last few tests, just to help him remember the positives of the testing! Someone else suggested that I find something else since it can cause spikes (as I usually use a bit of dry EVO as his distraction during injections astrying to shoot while he's eating dinner does NOT work) , so I'll work on that next. So much to figure out.

But for the moment, I'm going to bed.

Thanks again for the help -- hope you have a good rest, too!
Sarah
 
Oh...I did not realize he was still getting any dry food. That usually takes a while longer to affect the BG then 20 minutes. I'd recommend you totally get rid of the dry now :-D

We use freeze dried chicken treats for testing rewards.
 
Freeze dried shrimp is the big favorite here. Zero carbs.

Carl
 
Carl & Bob said:
Sarah,
I'll be up another hour if you happen to get another test before calling it a night.

I'd also reiterate what Marje said earlier.
If you really want to keep him at the f1u, you can see what he does but I wouldn't leave him there long if you aren't seeing some decent numbers.
Click to expand...

I think staying with the fat 1u in the AM is a good plan. I'd just see how it goes for another cycle or two, and if your numbers aren't all that good, going up to 1.25u or back up to 1.5u would be something to consider. But what it comes down to is that you hold the needle, and it's always your call. We're always around to assist if needed.

Carl
Click to expand...

Thanks, Carl! I just now saw that you had posted -- thanks for tag-teaming! At this moment, I'd think I'd like to keep him at 1 fat unit for the three full days (tomorrow and Thursday) just to stabilize him a bit -- he hasn't had three days at the same dose since Friday. But if it's looking like it's not enough, I can see that I'll need to get him back up to 1.5 (or maybe 1.25) and prepare us both for shooting at the lower numbers.

Have a good night, and thanks again!
Sarah and Jackson
 
You're welcome! Hope you and Jackson have a great night as well.

Carl
 
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