1/6 Ozzy +11.5 287 PMPS 279 +2 261. +4 249

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Ozzy Pawzbourne said:
I read somewhere...not sure where...that feeding raw ground food from the grocery store is not safe for your cats. Something to do with the fact that pet grade ground food is freezed immediately after grinding and tested for bacteria prior to being sold...and grocery store bought ground food is not immediately frozen so there could be a potential for harmful bacteria to grow. What are your thoughts on this?
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The acid in the cat's stomach is much stronger than human stomach acid and can kill most bacteria. I do take a precaution and freeze my meats for three days before making food. That will absolutely kill any toxoplasmosis. Did you know there have been more reported cases of salmonella in commercial dry cat food than in raw that people make?

I always order my meats early in the morning and Whole Foods is very careful with being sure their equipment is cleaned between grinding. However, as I said, the owners of the company said they just buy supermarket meats.

We have had other cats that had to go up to a little over 5u before they hit their fitting dose and then started a fast zoom down the dosing ladder. As hard as it is to see higher numbers (and I've been there), try and focus on how he feels and know that you are helping him because he is getting insulin.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I wanted to mention another option for measuring ketones, just in case you were interested. You can make a box just for testing for ketones by using non-absorbent materials, like aquarium gravel. I slipped a large box lid inside a garbage bag to make a temporary litter box. That's what we used when we took Punkin traveling. Then when the kitty pees in the box, you just tip it and the urine will all run to one side. Easy as anything to test that way. When you're not trying to test, leave that box in the garage or somewhere else out of the way.

Also, to second what Marje said about people giving suggestions and you taking/not taking them. We're brainstormers here, and what works for one cat might not work for another - either for the cat or the bean (human). No one is offended if you don't take a suggestion - we all get that.

I feel pretty competent about acromegaly, and there is nothing at all in Ozzy's spreadsheet that suggests that he might have acromegaly. Of course I could be wrong, but there are signs that suggest acro might be an issue and I don't see anything there to worry about. I'd take that one off of your worry-plate. You have enough other things to think about, lol!
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Julie, thank you so much for your comments. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I like the idea about the gravel LB for ketone testing, Thanks for proposing an idea that worked for you and Punkin.

I also really appreciate your comments (and Marje's) about the suggestions to others. I just don't want to be a naysayer or rebuke ideas from others, because sometimes folks will be less likely to offer help in the future if you don't agree with them or take their ideas into practice. I can see here now that folks on this board are really not like this. This is NOT true in real life. This is just proof that cat owners, like cats in general, are the better species!!!

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Wendy&Neko said:
Why would you think he might have acromegaly?
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Our vet said this when he was in the hospital. He had an U/S done and some other tests and they said they thought he might have it and recommended a blood test to confirm. We asked what the tx's were and they said chemo, radiation, and/or surgery and we said no way we are doing that to our cat so we didn't think it necessary at the time to do the blood test. We really felt that since our kitty was a bit of a fattie his whole life, that he probably developed DM due to his weight issues and diet (higher carb). We let them know that we'd like to test him out on insulin first and try to get him to loose a little weight and then we could maybe revisit the blood test for acro later on. Honestly, as we were driving home, Hubby and me decided we would not pursue such aggressive txs with our Ozzy if he did have acro because he is a very scaredy kitty in general and from a quality of life perspective, this would not make Ozzy happy at all.

When we checked out and took all Ozzy's tests and paperwork home with us, it said on his paperwork that he had/most likely had (sorry, I don't have his paperwork in front of me) acro. I actually questioned the vet tech on the way out...how could they know this and diagnose this as a disease process in Ozzy if we declined the blood test. Who gets to put this on some kitty's medical paperwork without confirming for sure!!??
 
Specifically - on 12/11 and 12/17, 1.25u got Ozzy into green numbers.
On 12/23, 1.0u got him into green again. - to me that is significant because it was a smaller dose that the times he got to green before this. While doses can and do go up and down, it is most typical for an acro cat's dose to go up.

The simple fact that he is on such a low dose is a huge factor in why I wouldn't worry about acro at this point. The hormones put out by the acro tumor create insulin resistance. That means that the insulin can't get the glucose into the cells, so the blood sugar is high (because the glucose is floating about in the bloodstream instead of getting into the cells) and it takes more and more insulin to move the blood sugar down.

Take a look at Punkin's spreadsheet in 2011, when we started here. You'll notice that it took 3u to get him to green, and after that he didn't see a green number until 2 months later when he was at 8u. That's the spreadsheet of a typical acro cat.

Having said that - I could be wrong. We know that there are some low-dose cats with acromegaly. But I would put the burden on your vet to justify why he is saying that Ozzy has acro, rather than on you to prove that he has it. At least for now, he doesn't have the size of dose to support that diagnosis.

Just saw your last post. I would ask what they are using as a basis to suggest that he has acro. The only diagnostic tool that I know of is either a picture of the pituitary gland or the blood test for IGF-1, which is only done at Michigan State University.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Specifically - on 12/11 and 12/17, 1.25u got Ozzy into green numbers.
On 12/23, 1.0u got him into green again. - to me that is significant because it was a smaller dose that the times he got to green before this. While doses can and do go up and down, it is most typical for an acro cat's dose to go up.

The simple fact that he is on such a low dose is a huge factor in why I wouldn't worry about acro at this point. The hormones put out by the acro tumor create insulin resistance. That means that the insulin can't get the glucose into the cells, so the blood sugar is high (because the glucose is floating about in the bloodstream instead of getting into the cells) and it takes more and more insulin to move the blood sugar down.

Take a look at Punkin's spreadsheet in 2011, when we started here. You'll notice that it took 3u to get him to green, and after that he didn't see a green number until 2 months later when he was at 8u. That's the spreadsheet of a typical acro cat.

Having said that - I could be wrong. We know that there are some low-dose cats with acromegaly. But I would put the burden on your vet to justify why he is saying that Ozzy has acro, rather than on you to prove that he has it. At least for now, he doesn't have the size of dose to support that diagnosis.

Just saw your last post. I would ask what they are using as a basis to suggest that he has acro. The only diagnostic tool that I know of is either a picture of the pituitary gland or the blood test for IGF-1, which is only done at Michigan State University.
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Thanks Julie. I'll pull out his paperwork when I get a chance and will share what they wrote.
 
Around only 35% of acrocats have clinical symptoms at diagnosis. What this means is that the majority of acros look exactly like other diabetic cats. I don't know how you can diagnose with an ultrasound. Only until many years into her acromegaly did Neko have larger organs, and then only mild growth in the heart and liver. And since she has Maine Coon in her, they are prone to larger hearts anyway. The cardio vet did not think it was significant.

If you didn't know, acromegaly is a benign tumor. It's the excess growth hormone put out by it that causes the diabetes and elevated IGF-1. The research study I mentioned above (Royal Veterinary College) did find low dose cats with acromegaly, but they've been very rare here.

As for treatments, they are radiation therapy (which both Neko and punkin had), surgery to remove the pituitary - I wouldn't do it in North America but they have had success in the UK, and there are some drug treatments. The drug treatments are new, not available when Neko was diagnosed, and the one with published research is very expensive. Jack (saltycat) is going to participate in a trial (with RVC) for a much cheaper drug solution.

But the above is probably too much unneccesary information for you now. Right now, Ozzy's SS just looks like many of those that are recently diagnosed and trying to work their way up to a good dose.
 
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