1/4 Ozy PMPS-63,+11-50

Status
Not open for further replies.
donaleen and Ozy

donaleen and Ozy

Member Since 2013
previous http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=111213

We all had a good night. Me, especially because I got to SLEEP. Ozy is up and seems to feel good today. Glad to have a quiet time here.

donaleen and Ozy said:
Pippin is Ozy's nearly three year old civvie. He weighs just 5lb 10oz (on a good day). Because he is so small, we worry about any health issues. He is tiny and he is skinny despite our best efforts. The vet would like him to be at least 6 lb, but we can't get him there.

I think he has a delicate digestive system. Higher carb foods don't agree with him. But no matter what we feed him, he throws up occasionally. In August it became so frequent that we had a house call vet visit. She found nothing wrong and his blood work was perfect. She was concerned about him for the same reasons we are... tiny, skinny.

However, he continues to throw up occasionally. Probably if he were larger, we wouldn't worry so much about it.

For a while we suspected hair balls but I don't think that is it. Mostly he throws up fresh food or sometimes a clear liquid. It's a forceful kind of throwing up.

I keep a Google Docs SS for him, detailing his throw up incidents.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqCxgyuIGH9TdEI2NE9pcUtqXzV1ZURWN1QxV1VkWFE&usp=sharing

We would appreciate any advice.

He is the star in John's heart.

thanks donaleen and John[/quote]
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • DSCN0058.JPG
    DSCN0058.JPG
    44.3 KB · Views: 1,122
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138

Might want to copy and post your question about Pippin here so people can respond on today's condo.

I wonder if Pepcid AC would help. I believe the dose is 1/4 of a tablet, but am sure someone else reading today will know for certain. I'm just not certain if it would be ok to give that for a long period of time or not.

Ozy's looking fabulous in blue this morning. no nail biting numbers! and Yay for a little bit of sleep last night!

we like that! :-D
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138

Beautiful blue skies in Ozyland - he ended the PM cycle right where he started ! cat_pet_icon
I had one eye on his ss last night ;-) Like Marje and Julie, I too pop in late at night so no worries.

So happy to see this and so glad you got some good I-) and Ozys ears get a bit of a break.

Remember 2 important elements changed simultaneously; dose and timing. Hold steady while Ozy adjusts.
No telling where he will go from here however you will likely see signals within the next 24 hrs.

how is Ozy doing in the pain dept?
BTW, is his name pronounced Ah-zee or Oh-zee?

Oh and don't forget to stop by the dry-cleaners and pick up your strait jacket ;-)
BBL
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

Hi, Sandy. You made me laugh. Hope I can get the strait jacket. I may need restraint if he starts climbing. It has been difficult in the past to reverse him.

I think Ozy is doing pretty well painwise. I did give him his normal bupe dose. John said he was so dear in the night that it was hard to go back to bed.

It is Ah-zee. As in Ozymandius, King of Kings. He is named from a poem with that name by Percy Shelley. The poem is about a king who is very sure of his supreme importance. When we first saw Ozy he was sitting on top of a "cat tree" at the humane society and he looked and acted like he was surveying his kingdom, in charge of everything. "My name is Ozymandius, king of kings... look on my works ye mighty and despair" that is a fragment from the poem.

His previous name was Mike but we didn't think that was adequate.

Our other cats are Pippin Mighty Mouse Lil'Bit (he is very very small) and Harpo R Crumb, the middle child. He has one screw that is a bit loose but he is very dear, too. Here they are, left to right, Ozy, Harpo, Pippin. 18.4 lb, 9.6 lb and 5lb 10 oz. Ozy is the king but Pippin is the boss.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0234.JPG
    IMG_0234.JPG
    39.7 KB · Views: 1,105
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

Those flat blues are beautiful! I often find with Lev that what I do with one shot (like a delay), shows up a cycle later. So that could have been why the higher blues last night.

You might want to cross post about Pippin in Health - it doesn't hurt to get extra eyes on him. Have you tracked what proteins he's been eating when he's thrown up? Just wondering if it's an allergy. Common ones are beef and fish, but I've also seen it to chicken/egg.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

My civvie Ginger throws up a lot. It's often a hair ball, and sometimes eating too fast. Normally, she eats dainty little bites, but occasionally for some reason she sucks all her food up like a vacuum and then throws up. Does Pippin eat too fast?

Very Nice AMPS for Ozy :thumbup
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

Nice blues Ozy! I hope you stay there!

I was wondering about food allergies too or IBD? Perhaps probiotic or digestive enzymes might help, at least w/ the weight gain. Pippin may not be digesting the food he eats properly so he doesn't get all the nutrients from them. I wouldn't increase the carbs in his food. Of the 3 sources of calories, fat has twice the calories per gram than protein or carbs. So higher calorie foods often have a higher fat content, or else they have less water. I'm not sure how that would effect his digestion, although cats deal w/ digesting fat differently than humans.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

Thanks Wendy, Dyana and Ann.

Pippin is mostly a dainty eater. Today he is ravenous and living up to his hobbit name... he had TWO breakfasts.

The vet did talk some about IBD as a possiblity. All cats are on Wellness grain free turkey and salmon, which is 5% carb but pretty high fat, I think. The label shows turkey, chicken, white fish, and salmon are in the ingredients.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138 help with civvie Pippin

Yay for sleep! :RAHCAT

Yay for Ozy's numbers! :RAHCAT :RAHCAT

Sorry for Pippin's sensitive tummy. My little female Abyssinian used to throw up almost daily. We called her the bulimic cat because she would eat and eat and then throw it all up. We tried Science Diet for sensitive stomachs (dry - this was before Cinco and FD came into our lives), and that seemed to help, but she still threw up the moist food. We also went the food allergy route and put her on duck (she was also having skin issues). That didn't make a big difference, so we put her back on the same food as everyone else. The vet remains convinced that she was just eating too fast, since the food that came up looked pretty much the same as when it went down. We slowed her down by giving small amounts and spreading it out on the plate, then giving refills at intervals of several minutes, so she had to take her time. After months of doing that, she got better, and now we feed her normally and she only throws up a few times a month. You say Pippin eats daintily, so this may not apply, but maybe even that is too fast. Or maybe you need to try a probiotic? Anyway, hope you figure it out and have a good supply of paper towels and floor and rug cleaner! :roll:
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Thanks for the information, Tricia.

And Ozy is yellow. So much for blue and green.... where is that strait jacket anyway? All those contradictory things are spinning around in my head again.... do NOT like the signals so far, Sandy.

If he stays up all cycle, I am ready to call it a failed reduction and go back up to 6.25 units.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Easy does it. . . :cool:

If an attempted reduction fails, go right back up to the last good dose as soon as you see kitty's numbers trending upwards. You don't have to hold the reduced dose for a certain number of cycles before taking the dose right back up. The guidelines listed under the topic "Increasing the dose" do not apply to a failed reduction.

Please use common sense in this situation. The "last good dose" is not the dose that just dropped kitty into the 20s or 30s. You want to resume momentum by finding a dose in-between the dose that dropped kitty too low and the reduced dose.
Click to expand...

Let's see how this cycle plays out. If the reduction is indeed failed I agree about an increase of 0.25u to a new dose of 6.25u, since 6.5u dropped him into the 30s.

Pain under control?
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

I see he took the escalator back down to the first floor. . . .+8=123
Next stop mezzanine. . .?????? :cool:
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Hi, Sandy. No, I don't think his pain WAS under control. John got up in the night to test, which was wonderful, but he didn't give Ozy any bupe. I think the pain got ahead of us. He had bupe @AM+5 and then no bupe until PM+11, He should have had it hours earlier. He felt good for a while after that, then crashed and was lethargic the rest of the day. I gave him some more bupe @AM+6.5 and now he feels great.

The morning started great but deteriorated from various irritations so I took the afternoon off from testing and cat care. It was a treat to do a little something else.

Thanks for checking in.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Happy to see you took advantage of the circumstances and changed gears.



Gotta love the power of bupe :cool:
 

Attachments

  • Better Living through Chemistry.jpg
    Better Living through Chemistry.jpg
    54.6 KB · Views: 1,043
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Blue surfs are one of my favorite cycles. :-D :-D How are Pippin's poos? Are they extra stinky? Consistency?
Liz
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

good thing to take some time off when you can! i'm glad you had a break. i hope there was a glass of wine along with the break! :-D or perhaps there was fabric involved - that's what i did this afternoon. it's very relaxing!

thrilled to see Ozy coming down. 123 is awesome.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Sandy, I thought paregoric was mother's little helper, at least in my early days.

Liz, Pippin's poops seem normal (very small of course)

Julie, Yes, it involved fabric. And it was great fun. We also went for a walk and I put on my Nano and danced around to my Pandora radio (the station build around Credence Clearwater Revival is my fave dance music these days).

Ozy feels good tonight. Ah, bupe.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Have you tried any limited ingredient diets with Pippin (who, btw, is absolutely adorable!!!)? I have three littermates who have all sorts of digestive sensitivities, and they are all so different. One is a little pipsqueak, too (Petey), despite eating well...although he checks in at about 10lbs (compared to Pippn's 5lbs 10oz)...but his brothers are 17lbs and 15lbs! It is hard to figure out what is going on with these kinds of kitties since they can't talk. Ironically, though, what I have found that works best for my guys is what should be the worst thing ever for obligate carnivores...a hairball kibble diet. Normally, I would not advocate such a diet, but it is true that ECID. My guys will not eat canned food under any circumstances - and I have tried every trick (looooooong story) to convince them that "mush is good", with no luck. Oddly, the high protein/low carb/grain free diets runs straight through them...it is a nightmare. Last year, my vet finally convinced me to look at food differently...I did, and I was shocked by the results. Their bellies aren't perfect, but the are SO much better eating what I always thought was the worst thing possible for them. Initially, it was really, really hard for me to buy this food, but if I didn't give it a try, I was looking at expensive and potentially invasive (and very stressful) testing, and possibly a lifetime of meds. It was my last ditch effort to avoid putting them through all that, and it was actually pretty successful. So, you do never know.

To back track to the limited ingredient idea...for my guys, they did better on those diets, but they wouldn't stick with them, which forced me to find other solutions. But, if you haven't tried the novelty protein approach, it could be worth looking in to. Remember that if you try it, it can take several weeks before you see results.

I hope you guys are having a lovely evening!!
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy AMPS-138,+2-203 help with civvie Pippin

Hi Donaleen,

What a great photo of your beautiful kitties!

FWIW, DD's cat Sebastian had mites as a kitten & was put on a really nasty liquid (Ivermectin??? - I don't remember) & isolation in a cage for 3 weeks before a new vet said one dose of Revolution would cure the problem. It did. Since then, Sebastian has been a 'barfer' most of his life. No tests or examinations could confirm anything. DD never went the allergy route & is a dry food devotee, but I did get her to try grain free. No difference. Sebastian was also skinny, like Pippin. He was also a totally indoor cat. Then one day he got out (they lived in a condo complex). He did fine & stayed close to home & the neighbors loved him, so DD let him out regularly. Well, Sebastian soon learned to visit all the outdoor cat food stations, & is now a total Blimpie (I know, & DD won't take heed from a diabetic standpoint, sadly). But - the vomiting also stopped. I believe in Sebastian's case, it wasn't the food, but the stress of being indoors when he wanted out. he was an outdoor kitten when found as a stray, & when he was made an indoor cat, it was maybe very stressful for him (he also got UTIs). Being allowed outside relieved the stress.

So - are there any stressors in Pippin's life that could be affecting him?

Also, there is some controversy about the use of carageenan in canned foods. I fed canned Wellness almost exclusively to our 8 cats, but did run into a problem with it with one, so did some research & am now trying to completely phase out to foods that don't include it.

Sorry, didn't mean to make this so long! Good luck with Pippin.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Thanks for the suggestions Amy and Suzanne. I'll be looking at Cargeenan. And other foods. First we are going to try probiotics, I think. One thing at a time...
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Nice! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If you think it might be allergies, you could try the Wellness Turkey or Chicken. Start with something without fish. Been an interesting condo today.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Yeah, just when I was ready for boring. Wendy, didn't you say Ozy was thoughtful and only went low in the day?
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Past tense Donaleen. No cat likes to be predictable. :lol: I wonder what Ozy's got planned next.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

I just saw that 48 - looks like a later nadir from the previous cycle like he did a couple nights ago. You OK Donaleen?
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Hi, Wendy. Yes, okay. Don't want to give him two reductions that close together. Thanks for checking on us...
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Up a little now Ozy please! See you in the morning - I hope he lets you get some sleep tonight. Ozy is looking great! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

hope you're going to be able to get some sleep tonight! i see the 58 - looks like he's come up a bit with the carbs. very agreeable of the little guy to be so easy about coming up. cat_pet_icon

see you in the morning, donaleen! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

Up to 64 without food now... doing fine. John is sleeping now. I am watching a movie. Thanks for checking on us.
 
Re: 1/4 Ozy PMPS-63

wonderful! so glad he's come up a bit more. hope it's a good movie! somehow i'm stuck on the sofa and FDMB and haven't quite made it to bed yet, but i'll be sorry tomorrow.
 
We're going back and forth on pros and cons of dose options for you. We'll get to you before 10.

sounds like you're really tired and would like a break from the low numbers cycle today?
 
Just catching up on your condo, Donaleen - whew! Sending support - great numbers, but you're certainly having to stay on top of it!
 
okey dokey - here's some of the thinking from Sandy, marje, sienne, wendy and me.

consider how tired you are, how tired Ozy is, and what we've seen in the past few days in making your decision.

You can skip the shot. that lets this cycle play out without the onset of the next cycle, so he may stay low for the first few hours, but then you won't have the next cycle's onset keeping him low all day.

you can give a significantly reduced one time shot, say 1/2 of the current dose, so 3.0u, then come up tonight with the newly reduced dose of 5.5u or 5.75u. that would likely give you somewhat of a break today, but no guarantees. It would keep some momentum going, although hopefully out of the lowest numbers, and it would drain the depot some so that you, again hopefully, won't see continuous low numbers into tonight's cycle as well.

You can reduce the dose by 0.5u and carry on. it would likely cause another cycle today just like last night's. the depot won't be significantly affected by that small of a reduction, so it would most likely carry on the momentum that Ozy's already got going.

I like to think in terms of percentages on these higher doses. I think I put it in an earlier condo, but i'll repeat it here to be consistent.

On a cat getting 1.0-3.0u, going under 50 would bring about a 0.25u reduction. that is 8%-25% of those doses.

Ozy is getting 6.0u right now, so following that pattern, the range for a reduction to a new dose would be 5.5u (8%) to 4.5u (25%).

Dropping to 5.75 is only a 4% reduction, so the equivalent of skinnying a dose.

I'll let you ask questions and others chime in to add to what i've said or clarify if i've been muddy.
 
oh, and i meant to point out when i said consider the past few days, how Ozy handled the last reduction. as you know, sometimes reductions don't hold, but Ozy had one day of bounce cycle with the last reduction, then held it and is back down in good numbers.

i think this is a different game than anything you saw on Lantus, so I'd weigh what we've seen on Lev more heavily and not really consider much about the Lantus experience.
 
Definitely dropping the dose to 5.5. His average was lower last night than two nights ago.

And we select door #2...shoot 3 units at AMPS.

Good to have the options laid out when we are so sleep deprived. Thank you for that.

I feel like I am playing Russian Roulette...

Thank you all.
 
take the day off - maybe get a test around +3 or +5 to see when this cycle has petered out. it'll give some info that might be helpful for another time.

there's no harm done by skipping. he'll regain his momentum and you'll get a much needed break. :YMHUG: wouldn't it have been convenient if this was all tonight so you could sleep all night? maybe have a chat with Ozy about that for next time.
 
i should say, i don't mean ignoring and not testing and bringing him up now. you already know that, but i didn't want the "grab a test later" to sound like ignore things now.

i'm glad you're getting a break.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top