1/31 Ruben amps 382 +4.5 126 +7 60 wont eat help

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hello samantha. i've been following along, but haven't posted because sometimes it's more confusing when there's "too many cooks in the kitchen". however, i have to speak up. i also disagree with your vet and some suggestions made in this thread to skip insulin tonight.

libby and i are on the same page. you're at a point with ruben where things could improve or deteriorate rapidly. syringe or assist feeding as well as giving insulin will stack the deck in ruben's favor... for the reasons libby has mentioned. skipping insulin shots, a kitty who isn't eating, plus some other systematic stress or infection is leaving the door wide open for diabetic ketoacidosis to walk in.

at the very least, you'd want to give at least half a dose tonight and get as much food into him as possible.

i'm just curious... has he had a bowel movement today? forgive me if i missed the info...
 
I haven't been around all day and I'm just getting caught up. I admit -- I agree with Libby.

We've seen way too many cats be in this situation. The caregiver thinks something's "off" with their cat, the cat stops eating, the vet says, "Wait and see and if the kitty doesn't eat, don't give insulin." By the next morning, it's an emergency with the cat needing multiple days on the ICU with 24/7 monitoring due to DKA.

When another member's cat was home after hospitalization for DKA, my advice was to give the kitty a hot fudge sundae if that's what it took to get food into the cat. It's OK to feed HC if that's what Ruben will eat. If you need to get insulin in and Ruben's appetite is iffy, then give HC, kibble, whatever. Insulin, food and fluids are key.
 
Sam,
If you come back on tonight, can you check Ruben's BG? And I know you mentioned that he tested earlier today "negative ketones" I think on your SS? You definitely want to continue checking if you can catch him peeing.
Has he pooped today?

Carl
 
Sam

As Libby, Jill, and Sienne, I always worry about not giving insulin to a sick cat. It's a double edged sword....If you give insulin and they don't eat, you are having to syringe to be sure they eat. If you don't give insulin, you risk development of ketones and possibly DKA. I would rather have to syringe feed or give karo to keep numbers up than to not give insulin per your vets instructions.

I think it would be a really good idea to give Ruben half a dose of insulin tonight and to continue to feed him whatever he will eat, to test, and to give him gravy if you need to.

Are you able to do that?
 
no poop. just checked ketones again.neg. and his glucose was low too. i know the glucose in urine is from earlier but assuming its still good that it read low.?. will check bg, cant move at the moment ruben is so snuggled up with me. cant bring myself to move his warm body. testing and waiting for the # to show is extremely stressfull, but will check.
i'd say since around 4-9 he's eaten around a healthy half can and about 4 temptation treats. double what he ate yesterday, i also did get 2 syringes of food in him earlier.
keep sending good mojo, its working
 
Good, at least he ate something. :smile:
Will watch for the BG number...

Carl
 
Sam....did you see my post ....if you let us know his BG, we can talk about whether to giving him some insulin tonight. The other option is to give him his dose tomorrow morning at 7.

I'm glad he's eating.
 
Great news that he's eating.

Aside from urinary glucose not reflecting the "to the minute" levels, there's an additional issue with UG levels. They are an OK source of info in the middle of the range. They don't give you any degree of accuracy with numbers in the high or low end of the range. If you get a "Lo" reading on a meter, you know numbers are in the 20 - 30 range. With UG, a low range is just below 120. Unfortunately, you don't know how much below 120.
 
bg 321 thinking, hoping am shot is ok? he'll be at vet anyway and there no ketones his mood and alertness seems better than yesterday. gave him 1/2 dose of bupe so thats why hes sticking by my side. i feel like he is slightly better, but never get to comfortable with that emotion. keep praying
 
It's up to you Sam. You can shoot a half dose tonight and a full dose at 10 am or close to it. Or you can wait and shoot the full dose at your 7 am shot time in the morning.
 
im gonna wait and test/shoot in the am. if his number was higher i would be more apt to shoot tonight if his number was higher. i will try to check again later but will def check in a.m. its good no ketones tho right, thats a good sign, something to focus on, right? am i wrong? i dont know, just trying to cling to something positive.
marje- will you be around 9-11 my time tomorrow? sorry i've clinged to you as my security blanket but i have, i understand if not, honestly, just thought i'd ask?
love you
 
Sam,
I can check in between 8:30 and 9:30 am, but then have to be at work till 6pm.

Carl
 
It's good there are no ketones and that he is eating. I think if you s not going to shoot, then you should try and get some rest. Take advantage of it while you can.

Don't you shoot at 7 EST? What happens 9-11? I give Gracie her shot at 9 your time and then I usually go back to bed for an hour....and if Im up late, I go back to bed for two. But if you need help, I can stay up after I give her insulin at 9 your time.
 
I've been away from my computer all day, but I wanted to give you my email address since my FDMB message box is over the limit :oops:. It's m.j.towler at gmail.com. Let me know if you need anything, including making a yucky liver shake for Ruben. I think I already have most of the ingredients except for the liver part. Your beautiful boy reminds me of my sweet Donny...

MJ
 
i do shot 7 my time but vet said do not shoot, to bring my insulin and shoot there, so i was gonna test at 9 and run it by here before i left for vet so i would have knowledge instead of going in and taking their word as gospel.
it's official ruben just took a few more bites. oh keep manifesting. his coat looks a little better too trying to be positive.
 
Did you get the impression that they would put in an etube in the morning if he wasn't eating? Did they day anything about anesthesia?m I'm trying to figure out if the reason they didn't want you to shoot in the morning is in case they have to give him anesthesia for the etube.
 
Sam,
Either Marje, I , or both of us will be on at 9 in the morning. With a 300 tonight, I'd expect the number to be that high or higher then. But we'll see what Ruben has to say about that :-)

Carl
 
Sam...I think if you get a high number at your normal shot time, you should shoot the .5u dose . If you want to move the shot time later, then just pick your shot time.

If the vet wants to do a curve, don't let them. It will cost money and they will want to keep him and his numbers won't be true because of stress. I just wondered if they might want to give anesthesia for an etube and didn't want you to shoot but seems they would have told you to be sure he didn't eat, etc.
 
Yes, Sam. What is their logic and why do they need your insulin?
Carl
 
marje- i honestly dont know, they did say it was 10-20 min that'd he be under, i dont know why they didnt want me to shoot in the a.m. they said if he eats then i can shoot, but that he should be fine and to bring my insulin with me so they can check him, then shoot. they suppoet home testing but everytime i go, they say im out of control with the testing and with whats going on the data may be confusing or covering up something else they dont see. i dont agree with them, i think they see how physically disrupted i am so they are carinf for me instead of ruben, what they dont understand is if they care for ruben ill be better. 2 differnt vets say they recognize signs of exhaustion and i need a brake, they may be right but how do you tell a mom to just relax. even when i sleep ive been having nightmare so even my subconscience is not resting. i am working on it. im never this much of a basket case, its ive put so much love and dependancy on ruben. he is my mood alering substance. i know not healthy, but it is what it is. i cant love him less, dont know how to.
 
carl- if i bring my insulin and shoot then they dont have to charge me. trying to save me money.
marje- i dont think they said to fast him, cause he's not eating anyway. i think they may want to do the tube, but he is s l o w l y eating something and will be do for his appitite stimulant. i hope they give us one more day. i think he may come around. im praying. he's about a whole can in. (maple did steal a bite here and there) i still have his kibble and ff out for him at night time and i measure them so i can re measure in the am.
MJ-sometimes people offer to do things to be nice thinking that the person wont take them up on it, but i'm so in. thank you
 
Sam,
If they use your insulin to give him a shot, make damn well sure it doesn't show up on the bill. If they want to do a curve, tell them they're not going to charge you for something you can do at home.
If they want to do a curve free of charge, tell them to knock themselves out. But that you'll need the numbers to put on your spreadsheet.
Carl
 
So if I understand this, if he's not eating, it sounds like they want to give him anesthesia (put him under) for 10-20 for the tube. Then they would have you give insulin or if he eats and they don't do the tube, they'd have you give insulin.

I think if you call them at 7:30 or so and try to figure out if they plan on giving anesthesia or not, then it would help you know whether to shoot or not. Normally, when cats are getting dentals and need anesthesia, they often get a half dose of insulin....and they've had no food. Anesthesia can drop the BG.
 
got it marje- thank you , this is why i need you guys. i'm so green to this. MJ- did you get my email with my info?
 
yes, I did.

I agree about the BG testing at the vet, especially if you already have an AlphaTrak. When my Donovan had major dental surgery, they wanted to monitor his BG throughout even though he was OTJ and not receiving insulin at the time. His numbers had crept into the 200s. When I brought him in for the procedure, I also brought his meter, strips, and pokey sticks. He was there the entire day. I think they took two readings on their own meter (and charged me for it... guess they were skeptical), and then did the rest with mine.

hang in there!
(and Ruben, EAT)

MJ
 
ruben is listening few more bites frm new ff classic can. yay
mj- call or text me and ill call you in the a.m. thank you
i am blessed.
gonna try to rest-even tho my little maple is going crazy cause she's locked away feel bad. only one night tho.
 
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