1/29 Dose Advice for Poopy

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Teresa and Poopy

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Sorry I haven't been on as much lately. My RA has flared up in my shoulders and it's tough to do anything. :cry:

Gathering some suggestions here. Ideally I'd love for Poopy to be consistently under 250 (and I'll even take under 276 if I have to but much prefer 250).

I'll try and get a curve done today. I'm sure the numbers would help. Hard for me to pick up the beast though. :YMSIGH:

When I look at Poopy's SS, I see 1.6u being too much as it flat lines his numbers, and even goes higher before nadir. 1.4u gives mixed results, and inconsistent PSs. Thought about dropping back to 1.2u or upping past 1.6u but not sure which way to go, really. I'm concerned because Poopy is showing glucose in his urine (which I know is not good). This morning it was +2000 ml/Dl. :sad:

Suggestions? Thoughts?

:YMHUG:
 
A curve today will help us see better what is happening during the cycle and we can go from there.

Sorry about the RA, it must be very difficult but you are doing a great job.
 
I'm thinking you may have to choose based on the ps number. When I look for greens, they have come off lower preshots. Try to look at % of drop from preshot to nadir for a certain dose...
carl
 
The last 2 weeks you had Poopy at 1.4 with only one green
and the blues were mid to high, not even really a low blue
If it were me I think I would up to 1.6 and stay there for alittle while andd re evaluate in a week
lets wee what everyone else says
 
Poopnoodles.

30 minutes later it's 154.

While he is enjoying the raw chicken chunks, he's still demanding dinner. *Sigh*

Will test again in 20-30 minutes and dose based on number (is below 200 1.2u, 200-250 1.4u, etc.).

It seems when I pull up the food (no grazing) or he eats the majority at mealtime, his numbers drop pretty well around nadir. If he grazes all day, the numbers are higher (food related, I'm sure).

How in the heck can I regulate him (get him consistently under 250) without denying food, while also being sure he won't hypo (when he hoovers his food early)? Guess I need a timed feeder. :sad:
 
Yep. I love my PetSafe 5. We tried a bunch of the flip up ones but the cats managed to break into them. The PetSafe bottom moves so they haven't been able to break it open.
 
OT, but Sue, do you have 1 feeder for multiple cats, or 1 per cat? They're pricey so I hesitate to buy 2.
 
I am one of the weird people who only has had one cat at a time. Both were eager to break into feeders and we went through 4 kinds before this one. Niko goes to it just before it opens but he has given up trying to get in.

I do think people use one feeder for more than one cat. Guess they have to be willing to share? It would be expensive to buy two.
 
Good question, Lisa, as I have two cats as well. Poopy always eats first, regardless of how many bowls I put out. Mia eats after everything quiets down in the kitchen, and no one is looking. ;-) Pretty much why I have avoided doling out food, thinking Poopy will feast and Mia will get the dregs.

I may need to do the special box for Mia. A plus is she loves boxes! The problem is affording it. :sad:
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I am one of the weird people who only has had one cat at a time.

Wow, then that makes you just borderline "crazy cat person"!!!!

But this brings up a question I've never thought to ask...

Who else only has an "only"? How many kitties, dogs, or "other" does everyone have?

I only have the two cats at this point, Bob (12) and Mullet (14). I've had as many as 13 cats at once (6 were newborn kittens, I ain't THAT crazy!). When we did wildlife rehab, our house was a zoo, literally. Dozens of all sorts.

Carl
 
My house is a zoo of animals and kids. Have two cats(7) (8), one dog(11), 1- Barred owl, 1-screech owl and two red-tailed hawks(all birds of prey permantely injured). Continuous flow of injured birds of prey that are then released back into the wild again. And can't forget, Two WILD kids!

Love them all!!!

Lori
 
Carl,

You mentioned shooting the PSs. Would you mind taking a look at Poopy's SS and give me an example? I think you mean using a sliding scale (if PS is this, shoot this, PS is that, shoot that).

I'd love to be able to say the carbs in his food plays a part but just can't convince myself with these numbers. Doesn't seem to matter if the carbs are 0-1 or 6-7 he still comes in ranging from mid yellow to low pink, and the dip during the cycle sure isn't an indication of what he's eaten. Yeah. I know. Trying to over think this whole shebang. :oops:

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. :YMHUG:
 
Teresa, hope your shoulder feels better! Hope at least the weather is good where you are.

This is my 1st time having 2 cats at one time. (Yeah!) I've always held out because I know I could easily become the 'single lady with all those cats.' LOL I love cats! Could be problematic when dating, you know...
Got hitched, and got my 2nd feline right after. Working on getting # 3 in the house. My husband doesn't know what hit him at times. :lol: It's all things Jax and Dooley, all the time. I love them!
 
Sorry your RA is bothering you Teresa. Hopefully you will get some relief soon.

I know people are hesitant to feed only one kind of food for fear the kitties will get sick of it, or civvies like something different, etc. We have had success feeding just one kind of low carb food here, a blessing they both still eat it (touch wood), I just vary the “garnish” on top a bit (catnip, plain chicken bits, etc).

I guess my point is, I think it is helpful to feed food that has the same amount of carbs everyday, so you can dose the same, and then there are less variables. And I think this happens over time, like keeping a dose consistent. Hold the same food and same dose for a week and see what happens. That would be what I would try.

I say often, I am no dosing expert. Asher is weird and doesn’t seem to go by the book, but I can just say what has worked for us. I have thought for some time that many cats are under dosed, and that thought is biased by us having a big gulper cat who has been on a higher dose, but now I am coming around to the thinking that maybe sometimes less of a dose is better in some situations. We were up around 3.6u and now 2.2u is working at this time. I think that you will just have to figure out along the path. And it might change a few times :?

All in all, I think consistency is the key. And that is hard because our lives are busy (OK, crazy ohmygod_smile ) and not perfect, but I think trying can be most helpful.

Carl, this is the first time I have had two cats. I only had one at a time before. I too could be a crazy cat lady rather easily. And I have a partner that loves cats too. We got these two brothers out of a litter of five strays because we thought it would be good for them to have a buddy in the house. We used to travel a fair amount for business and fun. Cats always fit into that lifestyle, we could leave them for overnight, and I had a sitter that would come in if we were gone for a week. I love dogs too but it seemed like too much commitment. Like if I had dogs I might as well have kids :shock:
But now we have a diabetic. So one of us is here every 12 hours. Gone are the days of going anywhere together since my sitter can’t shoot insulin yet and has some family issues that I hate to push her. So much for not being tied down ;-) But the kitties are our family and we do it all out of love for them. We make it work :-D
 
Teresa -

I am not qualified to answer dosing questions, I just wanted to say how sorry I am about your RA acting up. I wondered why you had been so quiet lately. I do hope it calms down and you get relief SOON!

We recently got our automatic feeders (Didn't know there was such a thing until I read it here!); we bought two knowing that only one feeder would mean only one cat would get to eat! We also have the Petsafe 5 meal - found the cheapest price at Amazon.com (We like Amazon - no tax and free shipping!) http://www.amazon.com/PetSafe-5-Meal-El ... 969&sr=8-1

Take care of yourself!!

Libby
 
Theresa,
Yes, I was thinking a sort of a sliding scale, but not set in any sort of stone... it was in response to this specifically:
When I look at Poopy's SS, I see 1.6u being too much as it flat lines his numbers, and even goes higher before nadir. 1.4u gives mixed results, and inconsistent PSs. Thought about dropping back to 1.2u or upping past 1.6u but not sure which way to go, really.

The problem is that Poopy doesn't seem to react the same way to a dose (big surprise!). For instance, on 1/22 you shot 1.6 into a 350. You got a 50% drop, but it was a late nadir. It gave you a 220 PMPS, and you shot 1.6 again. Not sure what it did, but it seemed to work well because it gave you a 230 AMPS the next day, so it looked like a good dose. Then that morning, you shot 1.6 again, and it didn't do anything. Dropped him only about 40 points and gave you a 252 PMPS. So you reduced to 1.4, maybe thinking that the cycle was flat and needed to be reduced (I don't remember) and then the next morning he was back up to 305. So the 1.4 didn't look like "enough" to me into the low pink number.

I was thinking maybe draw a line at 300? 1.6 above that, 1.4 below that. Robin is better than me at figuring out the doses and ranges. I used a very crude "sliding scale" with Bob. The ranges were at the "hundreds" and the doses were adjusted by .5 for each range. Like

100-200 1u
201-300 1.5
300-400 2.0
Above 400 2.5

Mine was probably "too crude", but it apparently worked for Bob. But I rarely got mid-cycle tests in, so I really don't know how low he went. I only saw scary low numbers two times, but he probably went "hypo" numbers-wise more often than I thought at the time. I had no problem (ignorance was bliss) dosing aggressively with Bob, but I didn't realize at the time that it was aggressive. I just thought "the vet must know what she's doing" and went with it. It wasn't until I'd been here a month, and Bob was up to 4u a shot that I decided to start reducing on my own. Now sitting at home, it's easy to think "wow, lots of kitties are being underdosed", sort of what Donna said above. But it's a whole different world when the kitty in question is not "mine". I'm probably more aggressive with dosing advice than many people here, but I "tone it down" because they aren't my cats, you know what I mean? I'm afraid to cause someone else's cat harm by telling them they need to up the dose just because it worked for Bob. I sort of did that with Copper and Lori, and it messed my head up for a while.

Probably the big difference, dosing advice-wise with me is that I think in bigger increments than pretty much anyone else. I think .25 at a time is tiny, but I recommend it because I figure people will freak out and think I'm crazy if I told them to increase by .5 like I want to. If I were to make an adjustment with my cat, I would want it to "do something" easily apparent, so I'd know that it was the change in dose that caused a difference, rather than have to wonder if it was the dose change, or some other random factor like Bob ate an ounce less of food that day, or ate an hour earlier or later than normal. I want the adjustment in the dose to tell me something definite. If I found the .5 was too much too soon, then I'd back off if I saw it happen more than once (wouldn't change just because it dropped his BG too much just once). I'm a big believer in "you have to force good numbers on the cat to get faster results". But I don't know if that way of thinking is "right". It's just the way I think. But, Bob is Bob, and he's "my cat", and if I screw up with him, it's all on me. I don't want somebody else's kitty to suffer (or his bean to suffer), and have that "all on me". So I try to be more conservative when doling out the advice. Sometimes it is frustrating for me, but I sleep better at night.

Sorry for the ramble!
Carl

Carl
 
Thanks, Carl. I appreciate you taking the time to not only look but to share how you "see". :-D I can understand about being aggressive on your own but not advising aggressively for others.

Just so it's understood...when I have the syringe in my hand, regardless of where I got the information I may be using, it's my responsibility for what I'm choosing to do. :-D

Thank you again. :-D
 
I agree Carl. I don’t want to tell anyone how to dose, I can only say what worked for us. ECID is always the mantra :)
 
Only one cat- she adopted me and came from a 2 cat, 1 dog family and whenever I try to get her a buddy she chases them away :cry: .

Good luck with Poopy and your RA. I know it is quite painful.
 
Teresa,

I like to think about FD in terms of variables. As we all know, there are a thousand different variables, most of which are a mystery. But I don't think about those any more. I think about the two things I can control: food and insulin. I can control exactly how much Melville eats, and exactly how much insulin he gets.

The last two weeks with Melville have gotten progressively better, and I attribute it largely to increased consistency. Previously, I was feeding whenever the cats wanted it. This was a lot of work and stress for me and, I think, for the cats. Since switching to twice a-day feedings, things have improved across the board.

For me, it was very difficult to restrict my cats' diets, especially when they were crying for food. However, I knew I couldn't just keep feeding them all the time. So, I did come calculations. I figured out how much food they would need to maintain their weight (turns out it's 220 grams per day for the big cats, and 190 for the little one -- I was actually underfeeding Melville!). They now get two feedings, plus a "bednight snack" of 10 grams each. Now, there's no question. Yes, they're telling me they're hungry, but I know that they're getting enough food. They might be hungry, but they're not starving. If I were a former alley cat never sure about my next meal, I would beg for food all the time, too! But, I know they're getting fed enough. They don't have to wonder about their next meal. If I decide to give them an extra 10 grams, then I record that, so that there's no confusion.

You might not be able to switch overnight, but perhaps you can head that direction. I would cut out the chicken treats and stick to a single type of cat food. It doesn't matter if it's not the best food, or if it has 8% carbs instead of 7%... just stick with it for a few weeks.

I realize that, just as there are many variables inside Poopy's body, there are probably many variables in your life. Maybe you can't be as consistent as you would like. Maybe you have family or upstairs neighbors, so you can't have the cats crying all night for food. Maybe you have an erratic work schedule. That's OK. Be consistent in whatever ways you can. And if that means only feeding one type of food, then that's a great place to start.

I'm so proud of you (and really, everyone here) for taking such an active role in treating your cat. It's inspiring to see so much dedication... it really keeps me going. Sometimes when things seem out of control, and I'm furiously searching FMDB for advice, Melville saunters over and plops his fat body right down on my keyboard. He doesn't care about carbs, calories, or insulin. He just needs a good scritch under his chin.
 
You got me with that last line, Eric. I remember someone posting once that the cat doesn't realize he is sick. He knows he is being fed delicious food, getting extra attention and snacks and feeling better than he was. For him, it's a win-win. We're the ones that do the worrying.....

You are a great addition to our little family, Eric. I am glad you and Melville are here.
 
I have 3 kitties that live inside; Big Hen, Monkey aka Monkster and Kokamo Jo, all boys.
Outside, I have 2 females that were part of the Trap, Neuter, Release feral colony, they're not really feral, both will let you pet them and one of them, Little Tabs is very friendly and rolls over for belly rubs when you feed her. Just the past month or so a new cat has been around, a big Maine Coon type boy with a collar on, he doesn't run but I can't touch him. I want to trap him and get him neutered but with the collar on I'm uncertain if he belongs to someone nearby, but its doubtful as its very rural and no one too close.
At one time I had a TNR colony of 26, and an abandoned pot bellied pig and a little dog, Daisy who lived to 18. She died in 2004 and haven't had the heart to get another dog since.
 
It's cool hearing about everyone's menagerie! I've got two cats, Scout (9) and my civvie Nipper (10). I also have two red-eared slider turtles (rescues), Ash (3) and Whitney (20+, we really have no idea) and a fish named Spock that has shared a tank with the turtles for two years and somehow never got eaten!

Since I'm single and travel for work I needed low key pets. I got Scout to keep Nipper company as she would sit in the window and yowl when I was at work. Now of course I'm in the same boat as you guys... hoping to get Scout OTJ so I can go back to traveling.

Lori
 
Benny got a brother (Cassie) when I was headed to grad school, because I knew I was going to be gone a lot and didn't want to leave Benny at home alone. I like droolers too, but I'm gone too much to take good care of one. Wacky schedules are why Cass gets amps at 3 am.... and thank goodness for parents who are willing to cat-sit (and learn to shoot a kitty, even if I can't teach them to test yet).
 
ericbakes said:
I think about the two things I can control: food and insulin.

We think alike! I've been doing a lot of thining of "what CAN I control?" and, you're right, it boils down to food and insulin.

I would cut out the chicken treats and stick to a single type of cat food. It doesn't matter if it's not the best food, or if it has 8% carbs instead of 7%... just stick with it for a few weeks.

I've thought the same thing, and have been feeding Poopy the same food the last three meals. :-D

I'm so proud of you (and really, everyone here) for taking such an active role in treating your cat. It's inspiring to see so much dedication... it really keeps me going. Sometimes when things seem out of control, and I'm furiously searching FMDB for advice, Melville saunters over and plops his fat body right down on my keyboard. He doesn't care about carbs, calories, or insulin. He just needs a good scritch under his chin.

I have to agree with you, Eric. The folks here are super special to me, from "cheerleaders" to "nerds" and everyone in between! It may sound odd, but you are all my family. I get excited reading updates on kitties, hearing about the ups and downs. Sometimes there's not much I can say, but I always read. :-D

And, yeah, Poopy has the same simplistic way about him too. He could care less what his BG is, as long as he gets his lovings (and chicken treats!).

Oh! That reminds me! Have you ever watched a cat eat a chunk of raw meat? Facinating! (The dogs watch from across the room...not daring to get closer.)

Thank you, Eric, for taking the time and interest to share. Makes me feel better knowing someone else is thinking along the same lines as me (and I'm not wacky...well, wackier than usual anyway.) :lol:
 
ericbakes said:
Sometimes when things seem out of control, and I'm furiously searching FMDB for advice, Melville saunters over and plops his fat body right down on my keyboard. He doesn't care about carbs, calories, or insulin. He just needs a good scritch under his chin.

Something we all need to be reminded off. Well said.
 
I agree, well said, Eric. Guess I've been on facebook too much, I keep looking for a "like" button to click :smile:

Libby
 
So much for feeding the same thing. :( DH helped out and already had the cans open when I came back in from taking the dogs out. :YMSIGH:

But, as Lisa says, another 12 hour cycle is on it's way! :lol:
 
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