1/28 MAX AMPS 88+2.75/70+4.25/77+6/76 PMPS 114+3.5/127+5.5/107

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tiffmaxee

tiffmaxee

Member Since 2013
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...1-pmp-s-146-results-6-81.151683/#post-1590320

Max's kidney numbers were even higher than I expected. @judytomlinson I wish I could say I see signs of infection or pancreatitis or a stone or anyone less serious but I just don't see it. We are running the culture just in case. It seems crazy to wish for an infection but that's his only chance for his numbers and kidney status to improve. It's a major jump in the wrong direction if not an infection. At least for the moment other than drinking a lot and lots of time in his litter box he doesn't seem to know anything has changed. I hope that continues for a very long time.

@Wendy&Neko I'm not thinking Azodyl is right for Max given the timing and amount he would need. From what I've read the jury is out as to whether it works. When I asked my vet in October he didn't feel it was of much value. I'm glad it's working for Neko.

I'm trying to not be pessimistic but today it's not working. :(:eek:
 
Elise, I'm sorry you are going through this--and Max, too. It is a miserable thing to deal with.

Have you ruled out tick-borne disease? I know it sounds weird, but some of these can cause kidney problems and they can be treated to some degree with antibiotics. I'm sure you know the CR is more of a concern than the BUN. It was over 4? What is the normal range for the lab the vet used? And was the test performed at the same lab both times? All of the above proved to be factors in treating our little dog and understanding what was going on, to the degree that we did. Test results can vary so much. Max's phosphorus seems good. Does he seem nauseated at times, licking lips, etc. Also, has he had a kidney ultrasound? I apologize if you have answered these before.

Don't think the worst! When our little dog was diagnosed, he would NOT tolerate getting fluids because he had a spinal issue and it was apparently painful. The vet thought he would not last long. With home cooking, phosphorus binders, and a lot of angst, he lived three happy years and it was not the kidney disease that got him!
 
Ah, I'm sorry to hear that! There is still a chance with the culture but I know it's slim.
Has Max previously been diagnosed with kidney disease or are these new symptoms that have caused the trip to the vet?
 
Max was diagnosed three months ago. His creatinine had jumped at that point from 2.4 to 2.7 and then 2.6. I'm waiting for the full labs and I didn't write down what he said because while I expected this, I didn't expect that big a jump. Normal creatinine should be under 2.4 and by then some kidney function is lost and the same lab was used. I see my vet every three months and we were there but the drastic increase in thirst and urination didn't seem to me to be diabetes related and my vet agreed. He too was hoping for a UTI as its such a large increase and the disease doesn't usually progress this fast. His phosphorus increased as well but I need the report to see by how much. His BUN has been a little over high normal for years and he's been treated for high BP for at least three years. His BP wasn't taken this time but was 3.montgs ago. He said liver numbers weren't elevated and Max has a high ALT with pancreatitis so that's another reason why I'm thinking that isn't the cause either if he weren't diabetic I would feed a much lower phosphorus food. Right now he gets Nulo, Mauri Kangaroo, Wellness turkey, Gerbers as a pill chase, and I'm trying to give him some Weruva whenever I can get him to eat it. No chance of ticks as he's indoor only and never had a flea.

Benazapril is not recommended with this high creatinine I believe and my vets aren't big on it. That is a change from when Tiffany was first diagnosed but I stopped it quickly because it was too tramatic for her to be pilled and I didn't know about gel caps back then. She was stable for a year until a UTI untreated caused irreparable damage because her oncologist failed her.
 
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It seems to me that 2.4, 2.7 and 2.6 are awfully close to being the same number. The 4 is clearly higher. High BUN can come, as you probably know, from a high-protein diet. But I think 80 is high for that.

Let me repeat what I said about the tick diseases. Anaplasma, for example, and erlichea, have been linked to kidney issues. Or at least that was the thinking three years ago but we are in an area of high tick awareness.

Best of luck to you with all of this! It's a lot. :(
 
Lydia & Rosie AKA &Basil said:
It seems to me that 2.4, 2.7 and 2.6 are awfully close to being the same number. The 4 is clearly higher. High BUN can come, as you probably know, from a high-protein diet. But I think 80 is high for that.

Let me repeat what I said about the tick diseases. Anaplasma, for example, and erlichea, have been linked to kidney issues. Or at least that was the thinking three years ago but we are in an area of high tick awareness.

Best of luck to you with all of this! It's a lot. :(
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Yes, the original numbers were not alarming but this big jump is very worrisome so I'm hoping for a correctable remedy and better numbers. His usual BUN likewise didn't bother me but it has doubled. That can't be explained due to his diet. If he weren't diabetic I'd go back to Hills Ideal Balance canned. He was a respectable 1.9-2.0 on it before diabetes hit. Thanks.
 
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Yeah, it's easier with dogs because you can cook for them and use grains. Rosie has some mild kidney things going on but last time, after over a year, her CR dropped quite a bit into the low normal (1.3 with normal = 0.9-2.5) with her BUN going up a bit to 58 (37=normal). So you never know! Think positive!
 
I'm sorry you're going through all of this...it really is so hard for us beans.

Since they didn't check his BP this time, it might be a good idea to get it checked soon. With both Trix and my GA civvie Mario, their meds needed to be adjusted fairly frequently. If his BP is a little high, it can affect the kidney values. For Trix, she went from Stage IV to Stage III after we got her BP down.

I know it's challenging to not be pessimistic, but you do never know. Check out Trix's labs...they aren't pretty, but she's still going almost 2 years after the shocking kidney news hit. And you'll also see how she does have some fluctuations.

@Lydia & Rosie AKA &Basil 's info about the tick diseases is very interesting...I never knew that. Even though Max doesn't go out, it could be worth looking into, since fleas and ticks can come in through screens, doors, and on us.

I'm curious...why does your vet oppose the benazepril? I know everything has potential side-effects, but as we all know, we have to weigh that with the benefits. It has helped Trix - she's been on it for almost 2 years at this point.

More prayers from us here...:bighug::bighug::bighug:.
 
My Snickers was also on benazepril for two years after being diagnosed with kidney disease and she did very well on it. We also gave her sub q fluids once per day and she had laser treatments on her belly.
It is really difficult as we try to manage these diseases and we all want to do the best we can for our babies. Hugs and coping vines to you! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
I'm sorry you're going through all of this...it really is so hard for us beans.

I'm curious...why does your vet oppose the benazepril? I know everything has potential side-effects, but as we all know, we have to weigh that with the benefits. It has helped Trix - she's been on it for almost 2 years at this point.

More prayers from us here...:bighug::bighug::bighug:.
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Thanks. My vets just haven't had luck with benazapril and Helen says she wouldn't use it with a creatinine over 3.5.

I've yet to have a cat without kidney disease and my luck has not been good with either one. Both passed from cancer diagnosed after kidney disease. DTSheir values were stable though unlike what appears to be happening with Max. I'm hoping one of the other causes is in play here.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Thanks. My vets just haven't had luck with benazapril and Helen says she wouldn't use it with a creatinine over 3.5.

I've yet to have a cat without kidney disease and my luck has not been good with either one. Both passed from cancer diagnosed after kidney disease. DTSheir values were stable though unlike what appears to be happening with Max. I'm hoping one of the other causes is in play here.
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I have had two cats with kidney disease; the one did pass from it after about 4 years and my vet at the time did absolutely nothing for her....no benazapril, no fluids....nothing! My other cat lived with it for about 2 years but passed from something else.
 
(((((Elise)))) Piling on tons more prayers and healing vines for you and Max. Extra vines for your Mom as well... Dang, I was thinking it would be his pancreatitis as well. Not that you need another thing to do everyday, but could he get subQ fluids for his creatine? You are always in my prayers even on days when I don't get a chance to get online here; love and hugs from all of us. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Tiger(GA) and Ruth said:
(((((Elise)))) Piling on tons more prayers and healing vines for you and Max. Extra vines for your Mom as well... Dang, I was thinking it would be his pancreatitis as well. Not that you need another thing to do everyday, but could he get subQ fluids for his creatine? You are always in my prayers even on days when I don't get a chance to get online here; love and hugs from all of us. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Thanks Ruth. At the moment he's drinking enough to compensate but I'm afraid fluids are in the near future unless this goes away. I'm not too hopeful of that though but praying for a miracle.
 
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