1/26/2022 New member

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trudy66

trudy66

Member Since 2022
Hi, thought I would introduce myself. I'm Patty, my kitty is Kloey. She is 4 1/2 years old.
Just got call from vet yesterday that she is diabetic.
She started limping in November after rolling into wall chasing other cat. So took her to emergency vet. They didn't think broke leg maybe bite from other cat but didn't see any bites. Wanted to give onsior for pain but needed labs first. Had labs done, all were normal. She recovered in a week back to normal. A couple weeks ago noticed she wasn't eating dry food as much but still ate fancy feast wet. Changed her dry food, she eats a little of the new food She has been losing weight, drinking and urinating alot and last week became lethargic. Made appt for vet, soonest was monday. Took her to urgent care over weekend. They examined and said she was a stable cat just by exam. So waited till reg vet to get workup Took her monday, they did labs and called yesterday BG 343, glucose and ketones in urine. All other labs normal. They are having me bring her in Thursday to get her started and do the trial.
I'm a bit overwhelmed, even though I'm a nurse and my husband is diabetic.
I found this group so hopefully it will help me through this. I will update and try to get the signature done when we decide what her treatment will be.
 
Hi and welcome to the forum Patty and Kloey.
I am just heading out so don’t have much time but just wanted to say that if you are not starting insulin straight away and there are ketones in the urine, this is a concern. I would go out today and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones. If there are more than a trace of ketones I would ring the vet and ask them to start the insulin immediately. This is very important. Test every day for ketones at the moment.
The danger is that if the ketones increase your kitty could progress to ketoacidosis which is very serious.
Also make sure your kitty is eating lots of food and encourage drinking as this helps combat ketones as well as starting the insulin.I am surprised the vet did not start the insulin immediately with ketones in the picture.
I will write more later when I get home.
 
Last edited:
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi and welcome to the forum Patty and Kloey.
I am just heading out so don’t have much time but just wanted to say that if you are not starting insulin straight away and there are ketones in the urine, this is a concern. I would go out today and buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and test the urine for ketones. If there are more than a trace of ketones I would ring the vet and ask them to start the insulin immediately. This is very important. Test every day for ketones at the moment.
The danger is that if the ketones increase your kitty could progress to ketoacidosis which is very serious.
Also make sure your kitty is eating lots of food and encourage drinking as this helps combat ketones as well as starting the insulin.I am surprised the vet did not start the insulin immediately with ketones in the picture.
I will write more later when I get home.
Click to expand...
Did not see this till tonight. I was a bit surprised they did not start insulin also, I asked and he said she was stable and would be fine till Thursday. Trust me I have been feeding her 4 times a day, she doesn't eat much dry but she will eat the wet. I have been worried sick about her. I take her in tomorrow at 815 so they will start her then. I am probably going to try to find a specialist if I can. They are a very busy vet and I feel like we might not get the kind of care a specialist might can offer.
 
trudy66 said:
Did not see this till tonight. I was a bit surprised they did not start insulin also, I asked and he said she was stable and would be fine till Thursday. Trust me I have been feeding her 4 times a day, she doesn't eat much dry but she will eat the wet. I have been worried sick about her. I take her in tomorrow at 815 so they will start her then. I am probably going to try to find a specialist if I can. They are a very busy vet and I feel like we might not get the kind of care a specialist might can offer.
Click to expand...

I’m glad you will be taking her into the vet in the morning. As long as she is eating well and she is not lethargic, or vomiting or diarrhoea you should be ok until tomorrow. But I have to disagree with your vet saying she is stable and will be fine until Thursday. Ketones can accelerate quickly, as I’m sure you know, and with cats can develop into DKA if not treated quickly.

I hope the vet is going to give you a good cat insulin. The best ones are Lantus, Levemir and prozinc. They are longer lasting, more gentle insulins.
If he wants to give you Novolin or Caninsulin (vetsulin) tell him you want one of the ones I’ve mentioned above.
Depending on Kloey’s weight and what you are feeding her the starting dose should be around 1/2 to 1 unit of insulin twice a day. If you can post here after you have been to the vet, we can help you if you are at all unsure.

Are you swapping over to a low carb wet diet? That is the recommended diet for a diabetic cat. Don’t let the vet sell you any prescription foods wet of dry. They are expensive and not needed and are higher in carbs than you want.
FOOD CHART look for canned foods 10% or under. Most of us feed 5 to 7% carbs.
You will also need some higher carb foods for your hypo box in case of low BGs. Look for some around 14% for medium carbs and 18% high carbs. Also make sure you have some honey or Karo as well. HYPO BOX LINK print this off and put on your fridge for reference.

Are you going to home test the blood glucose? I would highly recommend you do to keep your kitty safe.
A ReliOn human meter costs $9 at Walmart and a box of 100 test strips costs $17.88
Also get a box of lancets size 26 or 28 gauge and some cotton rounds to support the ear when you test
HOMETESTING HINTS LINK
The routine is to test, feed then shoot. There is information in the ‘help us help you’ link about what to do if the BG is not high enough. Always post and ask for help if unsure. With Lantus, Levemir and prozinc you can feed and shoot straight away. With vetsulin/ Caninsulin you have to wait 1/2 hour after food to shoot and with Novolin you have to wait 1 hour because those insulins are harsh and hit fast.
Another useful link for your spreadsheet and signature plus other information HELP US HELP YOU

If you can get one of the good insulins I mentioned above and you are willing to hometest the BGs, there is really no need to look for a specialist as far as the diabetes goes. We can help you here. We have very experienced people here who have looked after their cats 24/7 for years, and we are very happy to help you, but of course it is your choice.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
How did you get on at the vet?
Click to expand...
Hi,
So I dropped her at vet yesterday. They did a BGC. He gave her vetsulin. I had asked for prozinc, but he was pretty determined he wanted her
on vetsulin. BG was 434 on arrival at 8:45am. She did not eat much that morning and I told them. Weight was 13.5lbs. He started her on 3 units.
10:45am -315, 12:45pm -238, 2:45pm -175, and 4:30pm -97. Went to get her and reviewed all info with him. He did not recommend home testing.
He said we would do another curve in a month and because she didn't like the sticks we would use the Libre system and I could monitor at home with that. He said because she went so low on 3 units, he wanted her to skip the evening dose and start her this morning on 2 units.

My husband is diabetic, so we have a one touch verio meter. After we got home around 6pm. I fed her and had to locate the spare meter he has. Get batteries and all in order. At 7:50pm I checked her BG and got 90. So I don't know if she dropped more between 4:30pm and 7:50pm. I checked her again
at 10:30pm and she was 162. I don't know what machine he used doing the curve. And don't know what the difference would be compared to the Once Touch Verio I have. We skipped the evening dose as he told me to do. This morning pre shot and before feeding, she was 388. I fed her and she ate good
today, almost a whole can of glycobalance. She had gotten to where she wasnt eating much at all. She had lost about 1.5lbs and she had glucose and
1+ ketones in urine. I was irritated that he didn't treat her the day before, but he said she was stable. Hmmm.
I gave her her shot 2 units this morning, so I am just going to do a curve again today using the meter I have, so I can get an idea how she will do.
Thanks for checking in. I am reading this website like crazy. There is so much info on here. I was exhausted yesterday just from all the stress. Today I am going to try to get the signature completed and work on spreadsheet if I can figure it out.
 
trudy66 said:
Today I am going to try to get the signature completed and work on spreadsheet if I can figure it out.
Click to expand...
I will tag Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom not help you with setting up your spreadsheet

Please re read what Bron and Sheba wrote above
2 units might even be to high to start with, withhold food 2 hours before you test at AMPS and PMPS so the BG is not food influenced. ,with vetsulin you have to wait 30 minutes to shoot
after feeding because it hits hard and fast
Please look at the food chart Bron gave you , no need to feed prescription foods.
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies
Also always have med and high carb foods in case you need to bring Kloey's BG up to safe numbers and honey


Med and High Carb food



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

I your signature I see you have TR, I don't think for vetsulin there is a dosing method to choose from

Link for Vetsulin
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Do you have the syringes with the half unit markings?
We adjust doses by 0.25 units at a time
 
Last edited:
Hi and welcome to the best club you never wanted to join. My buddy Hendrick is a nearly 10-year-old Siamese and just diagnosed a few weeks ago, what a crazy ride it has been and continues to be...so much to learn, acronyms and terms...I felt so completely overwhelmed even a week or two ago but as everyone here kept telling me over and over -- you'll get it. Even the home BG testing which for me and my wife was something we were awful at just last week -- I am getting the hang of it.

I had the same experience with my vet: diagnosed with diabetes on a Wednesday, told to come in the following week to start the insulin. By Saturday, he wasn't eating and we rushed him to vet hospital. 3 days, a DKA and mild pancreatitis bout and $4000 later, he was discharged. And you bet your sweet patooty we are changing vets. Never again.

So we now have a blood ketone meter (Nova Max Plus) and test for ketones once a day while doing a BG test using same droplet. Everyone says Lantus is a great insulin for cats so that's what we're using.


Hang in there, it gets easier every day I think.
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
I will tag Bhooma
@Bandit's Mom not help you with setting up your spreadsheet

Please re read what Bron and Sheba wrote above
2 units might even be to high to start with, withhold food 2 hours before you test at AMPS and PMPS so the BG is not food influenced. ,with vetsulin you have to wait 30 minutes to shoot
after feeding because it hits hard and fast
Please look at the food chart Bron gave you , no need to feed prescription foods.
Most of us feed Fancy Feast Classic Pates or Friskies
Also always have med and high carb foods in case you need to bring Kloey's BG up to safe numbers and honey


Med and High Carb food



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Beef Feast in Gravy 20% High Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Gourmet Chicken Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Turkey Feast in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers Chicken and Beef in Gravy 15% Med Carbs

Good idea to mark the cans with magic marker how many carbs

Or any on the food chart
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/

I your signature I see you have TR, I don't think for vetsulin there is a dosing method to choose from

Link for Vetsulin
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.231587/

Do you have the syringes with the half unit markings?
We adjust doses by 0.25 units at a time
Click to expand...


Hi Diane,
Thanks for the info. I did wait 30 minutes to shoot this AM. I will remember that for future shots.

I did buy a few cans of the glycobalance just to see how she would eat it. She has not been eating the fancy feast pate very well,
probably from the way she was feeling but she never did eat alot of wet food. It surprised me she ate just about the whole can.

I am confused by how much and how often I should feed her. Vet told me she could have 2 1/2 can a day. Do I feed 1.25 can in the morning and evening and nothing throughout the day or should I split it throughout the day? I do work, so will be away some days, but I could look into one of the automatic feeders.

I have already purchased some of the higher carb cans of food to have on hand and I purchased some Karo syrup and honey. Have
emergency vet # on card and I know where they are located.
So I think I have a hypo kit ready. Please let me know if I need anything else.

I removed the TR from my signature, does vetsulin not have a dosing method?

My syringes do not have the half unit markings. Do you know where I could pick them up?
 
Hendrick's mom and dad said:
Hi and welcome to the best club you never wanted to join. My buddy Hendrick is a nearly 10-year-old Siamese and just diagnosed a few weeks ago, what a crazy ride it has been and continues to be...so much to learn, acronyms and terms...I felt so completely overwhelmed even a week or two ago but as everyone here kept telling me over and over -- you'll get it. Even the home BG testing which for me and my wife was something we were awful at just last week -- I am getting the hang of it.

I had the same experience with my vet: diagnosed with diabetes on a Wednesday, told to come in the following week to start the insulin. By Saturday, he wasn't eating and we rushed him to vet hospital. 3 days, a DKA and mild pancreatitis bout and $4000 later, he was discharged. And you bet your sweet patooty we are changing vets. Never again.

So we now have a blood ketone meter (Nova Max Plus) and test for ketones once a day while doing a BG test using same droplet. Everyone says Lantus is a great insulin for cats so that's what we're using.


Hang in there, it gets easier every day I think.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Yes this is definitely not a club you wanted to join. So you are fairly new also. There is so much info on here, its very overwhelming.
I'm just taking it a little at a time.

My Kloey was already lethargic and had lost weight, that's why we took her in to the vet to begin with. She was still eating and drinking at least
or she probably would have went into DKA. I may check into the ketone meter. I really don't know if I would succeed with the urine strips.
I have done pretty good with her sticks today. I do have experience being a nurse, but I feel like a brand new parent trying to learn this with her.
Of course she has made it very easy, she just sits there so good. She flinches a little but doesn't run.

I had a cat (GA) that had pancreatitis, so I know that is a rough thing to go through. Prayers he recovers and does well.

I am glad I found this group. It will help so much to have someone to answer questions when the vets aren't available.
 
Hi Patty, you are doing a great job with Kloey, despite your vet giving you some dodgy advice.
Ketones…if she is showing ketones in the urine you need to be testing every day for them. Can you put the results into the remarks column of the SS please?
It’s important she is eating really well and getting her insulin. We don’t want you skipping any doses of insulin when there are ketones in the picture.

Insulin…I’m glad you are doing a curve today so we can see how she goes on the 2 units. It may be too much but with ketones in the picture I wouldn’t like to reduce it if she is staying in safe numbers. If you get a BG below 90, give some higher carb food to bring it up a bit. Keep the SS up to date and if you are u sure of anything post and ask for help. Change the Subject line to ‘need help please’ to alert us. If the preshot BG is under 200 stall, dont feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising and post and ask for help.
Can you put the readings you got last night into the SS as well please and just put nil into the pm dose column for last night so we know she got none…thx.

Food…make sure you give a good meal before the insulin as vetsulin hits hard and fast and Kloey will need food aboard. So the routine is test, feed and wait 30 minutes, then give the insulin. I would give snacks if you can at +2, +4 and +6 ….just a teaspoon or two of low carb and then maybe one other one at +9 but not during the last two hours. Food helps stop ketones so is is very important she eats plenty of food. This is for all cycles. If she is not eating well, she may be nauseated so you may need some cerenia or ondansetron…ondansetron is better for nausea.
Yes I would look into automatic feeders for the days you are not there.


I am concerned about the lethargy with ketones in the picture, so keep an eye on that. I am going to give you a link to information about ketones and DKA so you can see the symptoms you need to look out for. If you are unsure post and ask us or take her to an ER if she starts to display any of the symptoms listed. Hopefully now that she has started on insulin, the ketones will disappear but you will need to keep monitoring them.
KETONE AND DKA INFORMATION

Here is a link to using vetsulin insulin. VETSULIN INSULIN

Keep asking questions:)
 
Last edited:
trudy66 said:
I removed the TR from my signature, does vetsulin not have a dosing method?

My syringes do not have the half unit markings. Do you know where I could pick them up?
Click to expand...

Hi Patty , there is no dosing method for vetsulin

You can get the U-40 syringes with half unit markings at
ADW Diabetes
https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/18553/ulticare-u40-pet-29g-3-10cc-1-2in-half-unit

ADW Diabetes Storewide Promotions
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Take an additional $5.00 off all orders of $50.00 or more!

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Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Patty, you are doing a great job with Kloey, despite your vet giving you some dodgy advice.
Ketones…if she is showing ketones in the urine you need to be testing every day for them. Can you put the results into the remarks column of the SS please?
It’s important she is eating really well and getting her insulin. We don’t want you skipping any doses of insulin when there are ketones in the picture.

Insulin…I’m glad you are doing a curve today so we can see how she goes on the 2 units. It may be too much but with ketones in the picture I wouldn’t like to reduce it if she is staying in safe numbers. If you get a BG below 90, give some higher carb food to bring it up a bit. Keep the SS up to date and if you are u sure of anything post and ask for help. Change the Subject line to ‘need help please’ to alert us. If the preshot BG is under 200 stall, dont feed and test again in 20 minutes to see if the BG is rising and post and ask for help.
Can you put the readings you got last night into the SS as well please and just put nil into the pm dose column for last night so we know she got none…thx.

Food…make sure you give a good meal before the insulin as vetsulin hits hard and fast and Kloey will need food aboard. So the routine is test, feed and wait 30 minutes, then give the insulin. I would give snacks if you can at +2, +4 and +6 ….just a teaspoon or two of low carb and then maybe one other one at +9 but not during the last two hours. Food helps stop ketones so is is very important she eats plenty of food. This is for all cycles. If she is not eating well, she may be nauseated so you may need some cerenia or ondansetron…ondansetron is better for nausea.
Yes I would look into automatic feeders for the days you are not there.


I am concerned about the lethargy with ketones in the picture, so keep an eye on that. I am going to give you a link to information about ketones and DKA so you can see the symptoms you need to look out for. If you are unsure post and ask us or take her to an ER if she starts to display any of the symptoms listed. Hopefully now that she has started on insulin, the ketones will disappear but you will need to keep monitoring them.
KETONE AND DKA INFORMATION

Here is a link to using vetsulin insulin. VETSULIN INSULIN

Keep asking questions:)
Click to expand...

Hi Bron,
I tried today to catch her urine for a ketone check but was not successful. She runs when I come near the litterbox. I was tempted to pick her up and squeeze it out of her. LOL Then I realized I needed to just calm down. If I can't get it I will try again tomorrow. I have ordered a blood meter. It should be here Sunday.

I did the curve her numbers were mostly in the 200's. Preshot this evening was 273, so I gave her 2 units. BG check at 1030 was 270 and I'll check again at midnight. I'll see how she is depending on what happens the rest of the night. Today has been long and hard. I am about spent.

I do have questions regarding food. Vet told me she needed around 270 calories per day. Then told me to feed her 2 1/2 cans of the glycobalance a day. I happened to look up the calories and glycobalance is only like 60 calories per can. That is only 150 calories a day.
I am confused. How much should I feed her?

She is actually a bit better than she was regarding the lethargy. She is at least walking around the house now and she did play with a little toy tonight for a bit. She was really lethargic Tuesday when he called and told me she had it. Then he said he couldn't start until Thursday. I was worried sick. But she was still
eating and drinking but it did start where she wasn't eating as much. I was glad to get in there on Thursday morning.

Thanks for all the advice. it makes me feel better knowing someone is looking out for us.
 
Last edited:
trudy66 said:
Hi Bron,
I tried today to catch her urine for a ketone check but was not successful. She runs when I come near the litterbox. I was tempted to pick her up and squeeze it out of her. LOL Then I realized I needed to just calm down. If I can't get it I will try again tomorrow. I have ordered a blood meter. It should be here Sunday.

I did the curve her numbers were mostly in the 200's. Preshot this evening was 273, so I gave her 2 units. I will do a check at 1030 and again at midnight. I'll see how she is depending on what happens the rest of the night. Today has been long and hard. I am about spent.

I do have questions regarding food. Vet told me she needed around 270 calories per day. Then told me to feed her 2 1/2 cans of the glycobalance a day. I happened to look up the calories and glycobalance is only like 60 calories per can. That is only 150 calories a day.
I am confused. How much should I feed her?

She is actually a bit better than she was regarding the lethargy. She is at least walking around the house now and she did play with a little toy tonight for a bit. She was really lethargic Tuesday when he called and told me she had it. Then he said he couldn't start until Thursday. I was worried sick. But she was still
eating and drinking but it did start where she wasn't eating as much. I was glad to get in there on Thursday morning.

Thanks for all the advice. it makes me feel better knowing someone is looking out for us.
Click to expand...
How much does she weigh? 150 calories is definitely no enough.
At the moment because she has had ketones in the urine, we need her to eat and eat well. So give her whatever she will eat.
Give her a good meal before the doses of insulin and then the snacks of low carb food at +2 +4 and +6and +9.
As she has lost weight, I would let her eat all she wants at the moment.

With collecting urine, did I give you this link before COLLECTING URINE LINK

I am glad to hear she is a bit better. Keep posting and we can help you.:)
 
Just wanted to add, well done getting the curve in. That is quite a big drop from preshot to +2 so maybe a small snack at +1 might slow it down a bit. We don’t want big drops in BGs over a short period of time, as it can cause bouncing.
It is very tiring in the beginning but you are doing a great job!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
How much does she weigh? 150 calories is definitely no enough.
At the moment because she has had ketones in the urine, we need her to eat and eat well. So give her whatever she will eat.
Give her a good meal before the doses of insulin and then the snacks of low carb food at +2 +4 and +6and +9.
As she has lost weight, I would let her eat all she wants at the moment.

With collecting urine, did I give you this link before COLLECTING URINE LINK

I am glad to hear she is a bit better. Keep posting and we can help you.:)
Click to expand...

She weighs 13.5 pounds. He said he wants to get her to 11-12 pounds but over 6-8 months. He told me 2 1/2 cans but I think he meant 4 1/2 cans. He was so busy when I was there. He did get his calculator to
figure how many calories and that is what I calculated around 270-280. I am going to just feed her right now till she gets alot better.

You did give me the link and I tried. I have followed her around all day. She thinks I'm stalking her.

She is tired tonight. Poor baby. Mom has been the torture lady today. But I was really encouraged today with how she looked and her getting around the house.

I will try a snack at +1 tomorrow, hopefully she won't be as high in the AM

Thanks for the encouragement.
 
trudy66 said:
How often should I check her BG if I am not doing a curve?
Click to expand...
Always check BG before giving the insulin
The onset of vetsulin is usually pretty quick so I would get a +2 or +3 if you can. And then a +5. If it is still dropping you could get a +6 or 7. You will get to know when the nadir is (lowest point) although that can move around a bit as well. If you see a low number, always check it 30 minutes later after you have given a snack.
You may not always be able to get that many tests in but I would always try and get in at least one test during the cycle and if that one is low, check again a bit later to see it is on the way back up…..does that make sense?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Always check BG before giving the insulin
The onset of vetsulin is usually pretty quick so I would get a +2 or +3 if you can. And then a +5. If it is still dropping you could get a +6 or 7. You will get to know when the nadir is (lowest point) although that can move around a bit as well. If you see a low number, always check it 30 minutes later after you have given a snack.
You may not always be able to get that many tests in but I would always try and get in at least one test during the cycle and if that one is low, check again a bit later to see it is on the way back up…..does that make sense?
Click to expand...
Yes that makes sense.
 
trudy66 said:
Yes I may have to look at some different foods that she will eat. I will go through the food chart and see what I can find.
Click to expand...
Speaking up here as Lando had the same FF aversion. He will eat sheba pates ( turkey and chicken). Maybe worth a try for trudy? Cheap, small portions and easy to find.
 
Lando demando said:
Speaking up here as Lando had the same FF aversion. He will eat sheba pates ( turkey and chicken). Maybe worth a try for trudy? Cheap, small portions and easy to find.
Click to expand...
I may try those. She just likes certain ones of the FF. I fed her a 1/4 can of FF tender beef and chicken for a snack and she ate that fine. I imagine I'll be spending lots on different varieties till we find one she will stick with.
She's always eaten FF different varieties but she's not a big eater at a sitting. She kind of snacks throughout the day.
 
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