1/25 Asia AMPS 456, ultrasound results are in

[Beenie (GA)]

I checked Wedgewood and if I'm correct Zeniquin is Marbofloxain. They make it a few ways other than a pill. The paste might be easier to get into Asia. Comes in different flavors and I would think a paste would be very difficult to spit out . It does come in only one dosage but they also make it in a chew treat so there are other options besides the pill.
Worth looking in to.

If pilling is the only option I had to pill Ming and got Wedgewoods tiny tabs and I would put a little cream cheese around the pill and pop it in his mouth. Never spit it out and I think it was simply the thick consistency of cream cheese. Not to mention he loves the flavor of cream cheese so he didn't object

Marbofloxacin oral paste

to Asia

 

[Pamela & Amethyst]

YAY!!

 

[MJW]

Yay on the kidney infection being the culprit!

Have you tried a pill popper with a water chaser? Or put butter on the pill before pilling her so it can't come back up as easily?

I saw a vet tech do the water chaser trick at the clinic. I'd never heard of it before.

 

[MJW]

What great news that you have found something treatable to blame for Asia's problems! Fantastic news!
It's kind of scary it takes an ultrasound to diagnose a kidney infection.
Orbax (same class as Zeniquin) gave Yum liquid poo. I fought it off with S. boulardii and canned pumpkin.

 

[saltycat]

I just deleted my nice pilling write up because I didn't check the video. My vet taught me to use my ring finger to open the jaws, gives a little more flexibility of the thumb and forefinger to get a little further back in the throat. If it is on the very back of the tongue they have trouble getting it spit out. Let go but gently hold her mouth closed and rub the throat a bit. A bit of water also helps the pills go down so I usually tried to do it after he just had a drink. I would be worried a bit about aspirating water if injecting it into the mouth as well with any force.

I used liquid zenequiun from the vet, Jack was always so hungry he didn't notice. When he got pickier with fuds, any medication made him turn his nose up to the laced food.

Glad it is something easily treatable and hopefully Asia doesn't mind too much and starts feeling better soon.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Here’s a short video of this sad and hungry little meow meow from yesterday morning. This is what I was dealing with all night while she was fasting. How can you deny the adorable face and pathetic meows?

Your little potato bug cracked me up with her sweet meows but how sad!

 

[Stacy & Asia]

That video about did me in. I don't know how you resisted her.

I am very OCD. When I was treating four elderly cats with cancer and multiple other issues, I had a spreadsheet for each of them, printed out, with their meds and doses listed, and I filled in the times I gave them. That way, DH knew what had been given and what needed to be done if he should have to take over, and I was less likely to forget something (a real danger). We even had a hand-written notebook for BG readings we kept with our testing and shooting supplies, so everything was recorded immediately, and then I transferred it to the SS when I had time. Recordkeeping was a huge issue for us, but I do think I would have gone completely insane without it.

This whole dance is so overwhelming. I found something very comforting in having records of everything.

Vines and prayers and many s sent your way.

Thank you, Tricia!

I’m the same way, I would lose my mind without my notebook, SS and my handwritten log. More than several times, I’ve entered data incorrectly on my SS and I arrive at a +11 when it’s still 2 hours until shot time! Thankfully, I can just check in my log, find the mistake and correct it. The SS is great for me because I can see visual patterns that would be nearly impossible to see in my log, but my log is extremely accurate because I write everything down the moment it happens.

My notebook is an invaluable tool as well because I have all of her records and info right in front of me. Even though the vets have the same info, they don’t always remember or have it in front of them, and I can save a lot of time and ward off potential mistakes by finding it myself. Was on the phone with the vet yesterday and since the results from the culture weren’t in, she prescribed antibiotics based on what the last culture was susceptible too, I had that info for her, in my handy notebook.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I try to give Girlie pills this way - but I'm nowhere near as successful as the woman in the video!

Thanks, Darrah. They always make it look easy in the videos! Using a cat that is used to it or doesn’t mind as much helps. We need full burrito, Asia does the crazy front paw stuff.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

What great news that you have found something treatable to blame for Asia's problems! Fantastic news!
It's kind of scary it takes an ultrasound to diagnose a kidney infection.
Orbax (same class as Zeniquin) gave Yum liquid poo. I fought it off with S. boulardii and canned pumpkin.

I really hope it doesn’t come to that, I ordered some extra heavy duty probiotics that will be here on Sunday, I hope that keeps it at bay. She had that sort of reaction before to this antibiotic. The liquid chaser is really important because some meds can actually eat away at the esophagus if they sit there too long. I also thing it’s sad, expensive, and stressful that the only way to properly diagnose a kidney infection is with an ultrasound. I’m assuming they aren’t all that common, but Asia being her age with CKD and diabetes has a perfect condition set for it. You know how they use a needed to collect a sterile urine sample from their bladder? They can also do that to their kidney to diagnose a kidney infection. I’ll take the ultrasound over that any day, sounds painful and much more risky.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I just deleted my nice pilling write up because I didn't check the video. My vet taught me to use my ring finger to open the jaws, gives a little more flexibility of the thumb and forefinger to get a little further back in the throat. If it is on the very back of the tongue they have trouble getting it spit out. Let go but gently hold her mouth closed and rub the throat a bit. A bit of water also helps the pills go down so I usually tried to do it after he just had a drink. I would be worried a bit about aspirating water if injecting it into the mouth as well with any force.

I used liquid zenequiun from the vet, Jack was always so hungry he didn't notice. When he got pickier with fuds, any medication made him turn his nose up to the laced food.

Glad it is something easily treatable and hopefully Asia doesn't mind too much and starts feeling better soon.

This one’s a head thrasher, as soon as I go for the jaw to pry it open, that is her response “no, no, this is not okay, you mustn’t” I think I caught her quite by surprise last night and as well she was feeling crappy enough that she had less fight than she usually would. They have pilled her at the vet before and have said to me “wow, she is really strong, I wasn’t expecting that at her age”.

I considered liquid, but this is a serious infection and any time you compound a pill into a liquid, the dose is never very precise, I have recent proof of that the one time I gave her liquid cerenia. As well, she tends to spit and drool with liquids, no matter how “yummy” they supposedly are, so I never know if it’s all getting to where it should be going.

Thanks for the tips and support. I hope you are doing okay, Wes.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I checked Wedgewood and if I'm correct Zeniquin is Marbofloxain. They make it a few ways other than a pill. The paste might be easier to get into Asia. Comes in different flavors and I would think a paste would be very difficult to spit out . It does come in only one dosage but they also make it in a chew treat so there are other options besides the pill.
Worth looking in to.

If pilling is the only option I had to pill Ming and got Wedgewoods tiny tabs and I would put a little cream cheese around the pill and pop it in his mouth. Never spit it out and I think it was simply the thick consistency of cream cheese. Not to mention he loves the flavor of cream cheese so he didn't object

Marbofloxacin oral paste

to Asia

Thanks, Michelle, I considered having it compounded too, but for so many reasons, if I can get this pill down, it is the best option and chance she will have at conquering this infection. The butter helped and is probably similar to the cream cheese trick. Asia’s just not very food motivated so it makes all these things a little more annoying.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

Your little potato bug cracked me up with her sweet meows but how sad!

I gave her a wee bit of pumpkin to assuage my guilt “well, if you’re really that hungry” but... I knew she wouldn’t eat it and she didn’t. Fasting kitties is cruel and unusual punishment. And double that when they are so cute and pleading. If I fasted Toki I might not feel so sorry, because her reaction would be something like “look hooman, feed me now, or I chomps your toes!”

 

[Marje and Gracie]

I gave her a wee bit of pumpkin to assuage my guilt “well, if you’re really that hungry” but... I knew she wouldn’t eat it and she didn’t. Fasting kitties is cruel and unusual punishment. And double that when they are so cute and pleading. If I fasted Toki I might not feel so sorry, because her reaction would be something like “look hooman, feed me now, or I chomps your toes!”

I understand. The longest I ever had to fast Gracie was six hours for a specfPL. My anesthesiologist is not one who likes them fasted more than 3-4 hours before the procedure.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I understand. The longest I ever had to fast Gracie was six hours for a specfPL. My anesthesiologist is not one who likes them fasted more than 3-4 hours before the procedure.

With time and advanced planning on my side, I would push for a compromise. For anesthesia, it’s one thing because there have been lots of studies to support a shorter fast, but for ultrasound, not so much (though I did find one, a human one). If she has to have another one and I know they are just looking at her kidneys, I’m going to haggle a bit for a much shorter fast.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

With time and advanced planning on my side, I would push for a compromise. For anesthesia, it’s one thing because there have been lots of studies to support a shorter fast, but for ultrasound, not so much (though I did find one, a human one). If she has to have another one and I know they are just looking at her kidneys, I’m going to haggle a bit for a much shorter fast.

Great idea especially since you are building a relationship with this vet.

 

[Steph & Quintus & L & O]

Cats really do hide pain well.

They do. Tounsi was dying of a thromboembolism (FATE) and I didn't see that he was in pain for a whole day. My huge regret and guilt about his death was missing that.

Please pile on all your tips and tricks, just to save you some effort: she doesn't care for treats, so no pill pockets and the like, I can't crush this up and there is no way she would eat it. Have pilled her before and the number one problem was she seemed adept at coughing it back up.

I always go for stealth rather than strength. I've been lucky to have easy pillers (Bagha and Quintus), but I also had Tounsi (impossible to pill but thankfully greedy) and my stepmom's old Fripouille, pill spitter extraordinaire.

Here are what my tips are:

• as with everything else "uncomfortable", make pilling a part of a larger, more pleasant process: chin scratch, cuddle, head scratch, whatever. The idea is to have an overall pleasant experience with a "meh wtf?" moment in the middle and that continues being pleasant afterwards. Fripouille's human would let her run away afterwards. I kind of held her there and continued petting. Within a week or so she was much more relaxed.
• aim to stick the pill in the throat on the palate side rather than tongue. much harder to spit it out if it's not on your tongue but already in your throat.
• go for speed: open, pill, close, rub throat and continue scritches, all that in less than 1.5 second (not kidding)
• once pill is in, close mouth, rub throat, and generally cuddle-hold rest of head if you can
• I hold the pill between my thumb and forefinger, gently push the jaw open with my middle finger, then lunge inside and push the pill in with my index
• tilt head back before opening jaw, holding it with the other hand -- this is where you want to be fast if you have a wriggler like Fripouille and Tounsi, and where stealth helps: if you're rubbing and scritching the head already, the moment you seize it and pull it back is less obvious. I also rub chin-throat if that makes the cat pull its head back on its own.
• exposure therapy: at first Tounsi just wouldn't let me hold his head. So what I did was multiple times a day, I would scritch/pet his head and briefly seize his head and let go and continue scritching ("nah you didn't see anything, did I do anything?"); little by little he started minding less because it was a gesture with "no consequence"

Last but not least, you can use clicker training to teach a cat (even an old one) to let you hold its head and tilt it back, even pill it, for example. But that takes work upfront, before you actually need to pill the uncooperative cat.

Hope there's something helpful for you in here!

 

[Beenie (GA)]

Thanks, Michelle, I considered having it compounded too, but for so many reasons, if I can get this pill down, it is the best option and chance she will have at conquering this infection. The butter helped and is probably similar to the cream cheese trick. Asia’s just not very food motivated so it makes all these things a little more annoying.

I'm glad the butter worked!! I forgot that my IM vet mentioned butter too along with the cream cheese as a way to "coat" the pills.
Looks like Asia's numbers are coming down
Have a great weekend and lots of chin scritches to Asia from me