1/23 Asia PMPS 209 Ultrasound tomorrow

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Stacy & Asia

Stacy & Asia

Member Since 2017
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-22-asia-amps-287-2-250-4-203-7-75-68.190007/

The cerenia continues to work and so she is eating well. Putting that in the huge success column. I’m expecting some disturbance on the SS as the past couple vet visits potentially caused a delayed freak out BG wise, we shall see.

Asia has never minded a bit of pumpkin mixed in her food, go figure she wouldn’t eat it today. Dumped that out, gave new untainted food, left a separate bowl with just pumpkin and a teeny bit of tiki cat to make it stinky.

Having trouble these past several days with the appetite getting her to eat the b multi, as in she has not been. Not sure what to do about that. One option is to add a bit of water and syringe feed it to her. But it is quite bitter and because she’s having nausea already, I don’t want to tip that apple cart. Another option is to add the tiniest amount into several of her regular feedings and hope it doesn’t alter the flavor too much. Problem with that, besides it being a huge PITA is that she may or may not finish her meals and it would be difficult at best for me to know she has taken it all or not. Open to ideas if anyone has any.

The vet clinic called and they are able to order the methyl b12 from diamondback. Here’s the catch, it only comes in one size bottle and it sounds pretty large. Unopened, the bottle lasts for 180 days, opened, it lasts for 28! So I will be ordering it monthly and tossing a good bit of it out.

Going to make some phone calls today and see if I can’t find somewhere to do the ultrasound with me in the room and no sedation. The more I let it absorb, as much as I want the info from the u/s, I don’t think it’s worth the risk of unnecessary sedation. If it were necessary, I would think differently. Maybe I’ll just order a sonogram machine online and DIY! Only kidding, of course, but it sure feels like I have to take matters into my own hands more times than not since this FD journey started...and it’s not like I’m saving much money on vet bills for the trouble either. Ugh. :banghead:
 
I don't understand the logic behind you not being in the room and them needing to sedate Asia for the u/s. My civvie Tanner had an u/s last August and I helped hold him and reassure him. There was no talk of sedation. Good luck finding a reputable office that will allow you in the room and no need for the sedation.
 
Good luck on your ultrasound search. I hope you find a more economical methyl B12 option. I'm just putting the powder in her injection-time feeding as that is when she is hungriest and most likely to finish all the food. Re: taking matters into your own hands, the knowledge and peace of mind you get for your trouble is invaluable... well, almost invaluable! :D ;)
 
One thing I found with Trix about the B-complex...it actually seemed to make her more nauseated. I just remembered that now. I only gave it to her for a short time, and I almost immediately noticed an increase in vomiting. That was the only thing I had changed at that point, so I poked around and did find it can cause nausea for some people. I stopped giving it to her, and the vomiting improved. It was part of that balancing act. It's just something to keep in mind.

I know Mirilax isn't ideal for a kidney kitty, either...but again, it may need to be part of the balancing act. Trix had daily Mirilax for a couple years and it didn't seem to affect her kidneys much. ECID, of course, but if the pumpkin isn't working it and she's constipated, Mirilax can be OK...just be sure to add more water to her fuds.

I'm glad she's eating well...good luck with the U/S search!
 
Mandy & Rex said:
I don't understand the logic behind you not being in the room and them needing to sedate Asia for the u/s. My civvie Tanner had an u/s last August and I helped hold him and reassure him. There was no talk of sedation. Good luck finding a reputable office that will allow you in the room and no need for the sedation.
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I don’t think there is any logic to be had, the u/s guy is just pertinacious.
 
Alicia & Maggie said:
Good luck on your ultrasound search. I hope you find a more economical methyl B12 option. I'm just putting the powder in her injection-time feeding as that is when she is hungriest and most likely to finish all the food. Re: taking matters into your own hands, the knowledge and peace of mind you get for your trouble is invaluable... well, almost invaluable! :D ;)
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She was eating the powder too, but with the not eating stuff happening, she may or may not be getting it in. I’d rather spend the extra money and know it’s on board.
 
Amy&TrixieCat said:
One thing I found with Trix about the B-complex...it actually seemed to make her more nauseated. I just remembered that now. I only gave it to her for a short time, and I almost immediately noticed an increase in vomiting. That was the only thing I had changed at that point, so I poked around and did find it can cause nausea for some people. I stopped giving it to her, and the vomiting improved. It was part of that balancing act. It's just something to keep in mind.

I know Mirilax isn't ideal for a kidney kitty, either...but again, it may need to be part of the balancing act. Trix had daily Mirilax for a couple years and it didn't seem to affect her kidneys much. ECID, of course, but if the pumpkin isn't working it and she's constipated, Mirilax can be OK...just be sure to add more water to her fuds.

I'm glad she's eating well...good luck with the U/S search!
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I didn’t realize that about the b complex. How awful. It’s hard to say what is doing what with so much going on and all these meds and supplements in the mix. I swear sometimes she’s done as well as she has because I didn’t mess with her unless it was absolutely necessary. I’m going to last resort it with the miralax, I know there are questionable side effects in human children and I also know if they get used to it, they have a hard time moving things on their own without it. If I added any more water to her food, it could only be considered meat flavored water and she wouldn’t get the calories in she needs! :joyful:
 
Going to make some phone calls today and see if I can’t find somewhere to do the ultrasound with me in the room and no sedation. The more I let it absorb, as much as I want the info from the u/s, I don’t think it’s worth the risk of unnecessary sedation. If it were necessary, I would think differently. Maybe I’ll just order a sonogram machine online and DIY! Only kidding, of course, but it sure feels like I have to take matters into my own hands more times than not since this FD journey started...and it’s not like I’m saving much money on vet bills for the trouble either. Ugh. :banghead:[/QUOTE]

One of my cats had an ultra sound, with me in the room, and she needed no sedation. The doctor didn't even suggest sedation. And, no, I wouldn't care to go with sedation either.
 
With regs in the U.S. varying state to state, I don't know if you can use a different compounding pharmacy elsewhere or not. I initially thought Myagi would be super difficult and an injection of Zobaline would be easiest. Partell pharmacy here in Vegas said they'd do it with vet rx and it was less expensive than I thought. Didn't need to go that route, but maybe you can find a less costly compounding pharmacy?? Just a thought.

Happy appy for Asia!:bighug:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Unopened, the bottle lasts for 180 days, opened, it lasts for 28!
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Anyone else know any facts about this. I know vet offices have to say certain things about medications. I have a huge bottle of B12 that was given to me about 3 months ago and I still am using to give Phoebe her B12 Injections weekly. Am I just shooting her unnecessarily? Or worse given her bad juice?
 
Stacy & Asia said:
I didn’t realize that about the b complex. How awful. It’s hard to say what is doing what with so much going on and all these meds and supplements in the mix. I swear sometimes she’s done as well as she has because I didn’t mess with her unless it was absolutely necessary. I’m going to last resort it with the miralax, I know there are questionable side effects in human children and I also know if they get used to it, they have a hard time moving things on their own without it. If I added any more water to her food, it could only be considered meat flavored water and she wouldn’t get the calories in she needs! :joyful:
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From what I understand, some people are bothered by the b-complex, and others aren't. For Trix, it seemed like too much of a coincidence, and obviously the potential benefit didn't outweigh the increased vomiting. ECID of course!

I agree about staying as natural as possible - I try to do that, too. I know sometimes pumpkin and squash don't have quite enough oomph for a backed up kitty, so I just wanted to reassure you that if you do need to go with mirilax, it is gentle and effective....lots of kitties here have used it without issue. I think dependency might only be an issue with longterm use - and I'm not sure if it's an issue with mirilax like it is with stimulant laxatives (which mirilax isn't). I hope the pumpkin does the trick for Asia!
 
I used the miralax when Phoebe first was diagnosed with IBD, but it turned her poop to black tar. No blood tested many times, but then we switched to Benefiber it helped alot more. And she uses pumpkin too. No more blk tar poos.
 
Phoebes said:
Anyone else know any facts about this. I know vet offices have to say certain things about medications. I have a huge bottle of B12 that was given to me about 3 months ago and I still am using to give Phoebe her B12 Injections weekly. Am I just shooting her unnecessarily? Or worse given her bad juice?
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I also have a huge bottle of cyanocobalamin that is a couple of months old. There are no instructions for how long it is good. I started testing Yum on oral methylcobalamin yesterday. I suppose the vet can test her blood or something for B12. Or I can just watch her hematocrit.
 
I'm so glad Asia is eating more. As I wrote to someone else, I sometimes grind pills up with a mortar and pestle and smear them on the cat's fur with butter or fish oil or olive oil. Cats don't like dirty fur. That shouldn't put Asia off her food but it could still give her nausea. I'm not doing a B complex for Yum yet (just the tiny crumbly oral B12). I want to talk to the vet about it.
 
Phoebes said:
Anyone else know any facts about this. I know vet offices have to say certain things about medications. I have a huge bottle of B12 that was given to me about 3 months ago and I still am using to give Phoebe her B12 Injections weekly. Am I just shooting her unnecessarily? Or worse given her bad juice?
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Is it the cyanocobalamin b12 or the methylcobalamin b12? Because it’s very possible they have a different shelf life, especially with cyano being the synthetic. It’s also possible, like insulin and many other meds, that it is still good past the use by date, but worth investigating what are the effects if used past the date, most drugs have a safety built in assuming people may take them past expiry, that being said with liquids and such, I would be more concerned with bacteria growth and the like. It’s a risk you have to weigh.
 
MJW said:
I also have a huge bottle of cyanocobalamin that is a couple of months old. There are no instructions for how long it is good. I started testing Yum on oral methylcobalamin yesterday. I suppose the vet can test her blood or something for B12. Or I can just watch her hematocrit.
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This is the injectable form, I’m well confident that the oral capsules would be marked to last way beyond a couple months, it may even be printed on your bottle.
 
MJW said:
I'm so glad Asia is eating more. As I wrote to someone else, I sometimes grind pills up with a mortar and pestle and smear them on the cat's fur with butter or fish oil or olive oil. Cats don't like dirty fur. That shouldn't put Asia off her food but it could still give her nausea. I'm not doing a B complex for Yum yet (just the tiny crumbly oral B12). I want to talk to the vet about it.
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Thanks! The would have been an option, once upon a time, but arthritis has made regular self grooming for her...optional? :joyful:
 
Phoebes said:
It's that one. Expire 3-19
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I’m sure that’s the expiry for an unopened bottle, you’d have to contact your vet, a pharmacist or the company which manufactures it to be sure what it is once opened. I’m assuming your vet prescribed this? If that is the case and they know how often you are giving it, I would think they would let you know if you need to discard it sooner than using it up, but you never know!
 
I found a vet to do the ultrasound, tomorrow, without sedation and with me in the room! Woohoo!

They don’t normally allow it, but they made an exception. They want me to “transfer her case” to them, which I read as they might hold my results hostage. I told them I will take Asia wherever she is receiving the best care, but I’m not going to make that determination by a phone call.

I gave her insulin tonight and plan to skip the shot in the morning. She needs to be fasted, they said no food after midnight...however, they tell this everyone rather your appointment is at 8:00 or 13:00. I’m looking online and seeing 6-8 hours and 8-12 hours. I know eating produces gas (which makes it hard to see what they need to) and can mess with the gallbladder. I don’t want to mess up the ultrasound, of course, but I also don’t want to mess up my cat, who is already having issues with food and nausea, so I think fasting starting at midnight for a ultrasound that won’t be until at least noon the next day is excessive. Any thoughts or experiences? @Tasha & Darwin
 
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In December 2015 Rusty had an u/s at a specialty hospital in Vermont. They did not sedate him and he did just fine. He had radiographs at the same time. I was not in the room, but I didn't expect to be. I hope everything will go well tomorrow. You can do it, Asia!
:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Myagi and Heidi said:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/felinediabetes/permalink/10155792737470202/

This was just posted other day in fb group. Recommends fewer hours better for pets.

Happy news 're appointment!!!
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I'm glad they are changing some of their ways, I think many things are done because they were always done that way and not necessarily done because it was for a good scientific reason.

But that's for anesthesia, she's being fasted for an ultrasound, two different reasons for fasting. One is so you don't aspirate your vomit and the other is so they have a better view in a sonogram (no food, supposedly less air/gas).
 
Stacy & Asia said:
But that's for anesthesia, she's being fasted for an ultrasound, two different reasons for fasting. One is so you don't aspirate your vomit and the other is so they have a better view in a sonogram (no food, supposedly less air/gas).
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This is very true. The specialists who we refer to for ultrasound want a 12 hour fast. As you said above; there has been a lot of change with the need and length of fasting prior to anesthesia (especially in cats), but it is necessary for ultrasounds for different reasons. It’s easier to see the detail of the gastrointestinal tract (among other things in the abdomen) if it’s clear of food or debris. We don’t always fast diabetic patients prior to anesthesia, but last time we ultrasounded a patient with FD, we had them 12 hour fast and give no insulin.

Also, I’m so glad you found someone who allowed you to be present. I’m so shocked you had such trouble. We have two different veterinary specialists we refer to for ultrasounds (they also come to us and do them mobile at our clinic), and they both allow clients to be present without question, and VERY rarely perform sedation. I found it so odd that you had that trouble!
 
Tasha & Darwin said:
This is very true. The specialists who we refer to for ultrasound want a 12 hour fast. As you said above; there has been a lot of change with the need and length of fasting prior to anesthesia (especially in cats), but it is necessary for ultrasounds for different reasons. It’s easier to see the detail of the gastrointestinal tract (among other things in the abdomen) if it’s clear of food or debris. We don’t always fast diabetic patients prior to anesthesia, but last time we ultrasounded a patient with FD, we had them 12 hour fast and give no insulin.

Also, I’m so glad you found someone who allowed you to be present. I’m so shocked you had such trouble. We have two different veterinary specialists we refer to for ultrasounds (they also come to us and do them mobile at our clinic), and they both allow clients to be present without question, and VERY rarely perform sedation. I found it so odd that you had that trouble!
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Thank you, you have just the insight I was looking for. :bighug:

I don’t know why, I guess it’s such a big city, they have more than your average volume of clients and thus many more chances for bad behavior? I honestly don’t know. One receptionist was candid with me and said they used to allow it, but people would talk and be distracting and ask a bunch of questions. Even this place that let me made sure to stress it might take as long as an hour, she made it sound like that was an enormous amount of time. :joyful:
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Thank you, you have just the insight I was looking for. :bighug:

I don’t know why, I guess it’s such a big city, they have more than your average volume of clients and thus many more chances for bad behavior? I honestly don’t know. One receptionist was candid with me and said they used to allow it, but people would talk and be distracting and ask a bunch of questions. Even this place that let me made sure to stress it might take as long as an hour, she made it sound like that was an enormous amount of time. :joyful:
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Yay, glad I could help!! :cat:

Must be! It's so odd to me, as that's something we don't bat an eye at allowing people to be present for. When they come to us mobile; the clients come right back with their pet (if they want to), and when they go to either of the specialist's locations; they do the ultrasounds right there in the exam rooms with you - I've never actually known it to be done anyway. So strange! Too bad you aren't in Arizona ;)

I didn't say before, but I sure hope you get some type of answers tomorrow, and obviously good ones. Sending lots of vines, and comfort for you. :bighug:
 
« Transfer the case » I’d understand that as they want to have access to all the case details? Is they want to be able to keep the follow-up after the US? I’m assuming it’s not that they want the case referred (by her usual vet), but sure it’s not just that?
 
Tasha & Darwin said:
Too bad you aren't in Arizona ;)
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Tasha, we will be retiring to AZ in the next 3-5 years. Where is AZ is your clinic (PM me if you don't want to say in public)? We'll be in the White Mountains, but I'd travel to Phoenix or Tucson (my home town) for an awesome vet!

Stacy, I've already told you this, but you have all the vines and prayers I can muster. Asia is a very lucky cat to have a bean that is so tenacious and devoted to her best interests. :bighug:
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
« Transfer the case » I’d understand that as they want to have access to all the case details? Is they want to be able to keep the follow-up after the US? I’m assuming it’s not that they want the case referred (by her usual vet), but sure it’s not just that?
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Oh, they weren’t subtle about it, what they meant was they want me to continue on with them as our vet even after the sonogram. And I sent over all of her records in advance regardless because I want them to have as much info as possible since they are treating her tomorrow at least.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Tasha, we will be retiring to AZ in the next 3-5 years. Where is AZ is your clinic (PM me if you don't want to say in public)? We'll be in the White Mountains, but I'd travel to Phoenix or Tucson (my home town) for an awesome vet!

Stacy, I've already told you this, but you have all the vines and prayers I can muster. Asia is a very lucky cat to have a bean that is so tenacious and devoted to her best interests. :bighug:
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Thank you! :bighug: And I agree, go to Tasha’s clinic! :cat:
 
+10 53, set my alarm because I kind of figured she would keep dropping...didn’t know by that much, but no food can probably do that! Syringed some Karo, hope that doesn’t count as food and if it does, c’est la vie!

Feeling like the worst cat mom in the world right now. She has been coming up to me all night even in my sleep with the purrs and “please feed me” meow and I’m sure she’s frustrated thinking why don’t I understand her? It’s going to be a looooong morning. Hope the time until vet passes quickly for her. :(
 
Don't know anything about the B12 shelf life but maybe you can find some info online or even call the company. If it's stored in the refrigerator, shouldn't that increase the shelf life?

I stopped the miralax after reading about how bad it was. Bubba was on it for a couple years. I give him the 1/4 tsp of egg yolk powder now and 1/4 of an omega 3 capsule squirted in his food twice a day and he doesn't mind either. It seems his constipation is so much better as is the hacking up hair balls. He has hacked up a tiny one recently but went over 3 months without any issues. He only poops every other day but they are good healthy ones and moist. I have read that a lot of raw feed cats will only poop every other day.

Good luck with doing the U/S. Maybe you can just tell them you are going to stay with her to help her stay calm and if they balk, tell them you will get the test elsewhere. Maybe that will make them change their minds as to not lose that revenue. That test is 300 bucks in my area.
 
Stacy & Asia said:
Syringed some Karo, hope that doesn’t count as food and if it does, c’est la vie!
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I would get another test in 30 minutes to make sure she had come up. Don't worry about the Karo counting as food before your next test/shot time. That no food within 2 hours prior shoot is for newbies without a lot of data. You are an experienced care giver now.

Just read that you found a vet to do it w/o sedation and you in the room, wonderful!!
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Don't know anything about the B12 shelf life but maybe you can find some info online or even call the company. If it's stored in the refrigerator, shouldn't that increase the shelf life?

I stopped the miralax after reading about how bad it was. Bubba was on it for a couple years. I give him the 1/4 tsp of egg yolk powder now and 1/4 of an omega 3 capsule squirted in his food twice a day and he doesn't mind either. It seems his constipation is so much better as is the hacking up hair balls. He has hacked up a tiny one recently but went over 3 months without any issues. He only poops every other day but they are good healthy ones and moist. I have read that a lot of raw feed cats will only poop every other day.

Good luck with doing the U/S. Maybe you can just tell them you are going to stay with her to help her stay calm and if they balk, tell them you will get the test elsewhere. Maybe that will make them change their minds as to not lose that revenue. That test is 300 bucks in my area.
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Omega 3 helps get things moving? Not sure the egg yolk is a good idea with the kidney stuff. Asia has never had issues with hair balls, which is surprising considering she is a medium hair cat. And yes, she doesn’t always poop every day, I can usually tell when things are not right back there because she strains or does a lot of scooting.

I found a place to do the u/s, and my vet told me to look around for another place that would let me be there, they outsource and the guy they have do them is very rigid about no hoomans in the room.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I would get another test in 30 minutes to make sure she had come up. Don't worry about the Karo counting as food before your next test/shot time. That no food within 2 hours prior shoot is for newbies without a lot of data. You are an experienced care giver now.

Just read that you found a vet to do it w/o sedation and you in the room, wonderful!!
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Yes, I’m soon to get a +11, and the no food is for the u/s not the pre shot thing. They said she could have water, and Karo is pretty much really thick sugar water, so I’m counting it as not being food! ;)
 
+11 54, surfing the 50s, we are. I have a feeling she’s still on the decline, but I’m reluctant to load her up with syrup because she’s not getting a shot today. Will see where she is in 30.
 
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