1/22 Rooh pmps 121 BCS +0.5 124, +1 154, +2 198

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jmeli

Jmeli

Member Since 2014
Rooh has been at 3.5u for 3 days now since his near hypo event. His numbers started dropping at +9 today and at PMPS he is at 93. I am not sure if i should give the full 3.5u. Any suggestions from LL would be greatly appreciated. His shot was due 30 mins ago and i just got the 93 number.
 
I actually fed him an hour ago but he only ate about .5 oz. it was Friskies Poultry platter 8% carb calories.
 
I'm thinking that slide down would not do well with 3.5 units. Are you up for a night of monitoring?

Looking at the 19th vs today, I'm wondering if a drop to token 2 units might keep him out of trouble tonight, let the depot drain, and allow you to work on stabilizing at a new dose more calmly.

But that's me.
 
I just retested. He is at 85 Relion meter. 123 AlphaTrak. its 45 mins past his PM shot time. Its okay with me to change his shot schedule. I work from home.
 
BJM said:
Are you up for a night of monitoring?

Looking at the 19th vs today, I'm wondering if a drop to token 2 units might keep him out of trouble tonight, let the depot drain, and allow you to work on stabilizing at a new dose more calmly.

But that's me.
Click to expand...

No, Im not really up for a night of monitoring. Did that Monday and Tuesday and am still tired from it.
 
Julie - what do you think of my idea. She needs to get some sleep and keep Rooh safe at the same time.
 
I'd just stick with the Relion - it gets super confusing to go back and forth between two completely different types of meters.

Just to be sure I have it straight: He was 93 on the Relion at +12, and 45 minutes later he is 85. Is that right?

You have a couple of choices.

You can skip the shot - i suspect he'll be really high if you do that. You'd still need to get at least a test in another hour to see if he's going up, and go from there.

You could give a reduced dose. That doesn't mean you for certain won't have low numbers tonight, but it would reduce the chances. You'd still need to monitor at least until you see him going up. I'd get a +1 and a +2 if you shoot anything, and go from there.

You could also continue to stall until he's coming up and then shoot him. The longer you stall the more you're reducing the overlap between the end of the previous shot and the onset of this next shot, so he's more likely to go higher from it.

With either choice you could go ahead and feed him, which probably will increase his BGs.
 
Just my opinion but I'd probably go with the token dose, but you have to remember that if his depot is overfull, reducing the dose for this shot may not make any difference in whether you'll end up being up all night or not

I know you were originally told not to drop back on your dosage, but I'm beginning to think it might not be a bad idea to kind of "start over" on Rooh since she went up pretty quickly before you found the message board.

Maybe not start back at 1 unit, but maybe try only 2 units for awhile and seeing how Rooh does

Just an opinion
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I'd just stick with the Relion - it gets super confusing to go back and forth between two completely different types of meters.

Just to be sure I have it straight: He was 93 on the Relion at +12, and 45 minutes later he is 85. Is that right?
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct. and I will not post the Alpha numbers anymore.
 
Since he's finally getting some good numbers now, honestly, I wouldn't choose to drop back in dose now and start over. If he were mine, I'd stay the course.

I can check with you for about 3 more hours - BJM said she is off tomorrow so she can help you with low numbers if you have them again.

It's up to you, Mel, what direction do you want to go? Can I answer any questions to help you decide? I think we're about 15 minutes away from +13 - do you want to wait til then and get another test?
 
Honestly i just want him to get regulated and feel better. This is all pretty and a little confusing to me the depot part even though I have read up on it. I think i will retest now and if he is rising decide what to shoot. IF i have to I will stay up all night, just not be to happy about it.

He did vomit earlier at +11 and it was clear mucous. He has been really sleepy since going down to 85.
 
The depot is always one of the hardest things to grasp, so don't feel alone!

Think of it like this...when you first start with a depot insulin, you have to give it for several days before you really know how it's going to work because only a little of each shot goes to work quickly...the rest goes "into storage" (the depot)

As the depot fills, it releases some of that insulin it has stored back into the body, so as it gets more and more full, there's more being released

When you reduce, the depot can still be so full that it's still going to release the "higher dose" until it's had time to "drain"

Does that help?
 
When a cat's body has gotten used to high numbers, some of them do feel wiped out when their blood sugar drops. I think of it as like caffeine - your natural state is uncaffeinated, but if you're used to it and then it gets taken away, you feel awfully wiped out.

think of the insulin as being somewhat timed release. Some of what you've been injecting in the past 3 days is still lingering in his body and will continue to release even if you skip the shot. When you shoot, some goes immediately to be available to the body and some forms a precipitate in the body and slow releases.

Reducing the dose, like BJM suggested doing a one-time 2.0u shot tonight, can be enough to prevent low numbers, but it's hard to say for sure. So you still would want to check in another little while. Skipping the shot is more likely to prevent the low numbers tonight.
 
He is still at 89 and its been 13.5 hrs since his AM shot. Julie, if it were you , how much would you shoot? I know what my vet has said to go ahead and shoot anything over 100 (alpha numbers) but until this week I havent been faced with these decisions and its a little nerve racking.

If giving him gravy or karo will always pull him out of hypo state I guess i shouldnt bee so nervous. Does it always work??
 
Chris & China said:
The depot is always one of the hardest things to grasp, so don't feel alone!
Click to expand...
But how does the depot know how much to release? It sounds like it just releases how much it wants, when it wants with no formula behind it, or am i wrong?
 
I haven't ever seen it not work. What we're looking at with Rooh isn't dropping numbers - he's essentially flat. I'd shoot something if he were mine. I've seen great progress made from shooting the full dose into normal numbers - my only concern with doing that here is that we don't know if this is really the "just right" dose for Rooh because of how he was increased before you came to FDMB. Not your fault - i'm not blaming, just explaining.

I think going with 2.0u is ok. As you've stalled the depot has reduced, and when that happens it acts like a dose decrease. Kinda doesn't make sense, but that is how it works. If I were in your shoes, that's what I'd do.

Your question about how the depot knows how much to release - i think it's fairly constant. We know the size of the depot is relative to the size of the shot. Big shot = big depot. but any size shot has a depot - this is a good thing about Lantus & Lev because that's how cats get flat cycles on those insulins. That's a good thing too.
 
I should clarify - i've never seen carbs not work in a similar situation to yours tonight, where the blood sugar was basically flat. But there are times when people take cats to the vet because the BGs are low. So . . . i can't give any guarantee. Just what i *think* would happen. If I thought you'd have a crisis i'd suggest you don't shoot.

But the choice is yours - you're the one there and who will be dealing with it.
 
Think of the depot as a bunch of tiny ice cubes melting. They don't think.
Lantus forms small crystals under the skin which melt and release the insulin to work.

I'm about to pop out for a short period to check on the cat I'm trying to trap, then I'll be back.
 
I am going to shoot 2.5u and stay up for at least 2-3 hrs to watch him, longer if needed.

Thank you everyone.

I have been wondering, does anyone on here shoot 3 times a day instead of 2?
 
3 times a day is really hard on a person. Most of the time you can get a cat regulated without having to do that, so we don't suggest it to anyone. Sometimes people do it on Prozinc.

I'll check in with you in one hour and lets see what Mr. Rooh has in mind. Go ahead and feed him too. He's probably hungry!
 
He is on the rise.. 121 now preshot, gave 2.5u but wondering if maybe i should have just done the full dose. It is what it is, sigh.
 
I think you made a good choice on the dose. If you'd been here since starting insulin and we could be really confident about the dose, I'd have been yelling SHOOOOOT!

But this will give us an opportunity to see what happens with this dose. It's all good. If there's anything I've learned with FD it's that you're pretty likely to get another chance to try things.:smuggrin:
 
would you update the subject line to read:

1/22 Rooh pmps 121 BCS +0.5 124

experienced people scan the main page and they may see you need help before you even realize it. Keeping the subject line updated is one way of getting help. As you get in more tests tonight go ahead and update it.

Can you get a +1?

Did ya get the feral kitty, bj?
 
Check out the Garage Cats posts under Community. Momacita and one 8 month old semi-feral in my basement. Just 1 more, a sibling, to trap. Both juveniles were willing to eat freeze-dried chicken from my hand, but not be picked up, had never been part of a colony, and had been in a garage since June, so no skills at foraging on their own. And they had to get out of the garage; my lungs were going off with asthma and the cold was making it worse.
 
right - it means you gave a reduced shot this once because of a lower preshot, or if a cat is sick or not eating. just a heads-up to anyone looking that you normally shoot more than whatever you shot this one time.
 
Big chicken shot... really? Lmbo! +1 is 154. I will check again in an hour to update the board and if on the rise, its probably safe to sleep for 4-5 hrs dont ya think?
 
Food often will cause it to rise over the following 2 hours and then begin falling. Maybe offer some low carb at +2, then nap about 2 hr 15 min (roughly 3 45 minute sleep cycles; waking at the end of a sleep cycle is easier.)
 
Thanks BJ. Two nights ago I got up every hour to check him. His vet wanted an hourly curve. I was surprised at how easily I woke up but my brain & body has been paying for it now.
 
I have a sleep disorder - idiopathic daytime hypersomnolence (they don't know why, but during the day, I have nap attacks) - I pulled 1 all nighter with Spitzer early on and was barely able to stay awake to monitor him as my body was trying to shut off.
 
Have you had your cortisol checked ? I would recommend the 30 day saliva test. I have been battling hormone swings for 7 yrs now but Im slowly getting better.
 
off topic question here.. when reading a thread is it impossible to page forward and backward? I see i can page backward in your garage cats post, but then I cant page forward again.
 
people do this for years - everyone has to be able to sleep, so you learn how to make the whole thing work. i always got a +3 because for punkin, it was a great indicator of what i could expect. Once you know Rooh's patterns then you can figure out when you need to check again and when you are fine going to sleep.

If i had to check him late, i napped on the sofa with the lights still on and my cell phone alarm set loudly.

Food is also your friend in this - if a cat has low numbers we use carbs to bring them up, so anytime you're uncertain, it's good to leave food out.

must be getting close to a +2?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
hmm, are you looking on your phone or a computer? i don't have pages until there are 50 or 100 or something huge like that.
Click to expand...
on my computer. at the top of every page is a link that says previously. I wanted to read the whole thread but i guess i need to go back and click on each days thread?
 
i wonder where that is. I have a link on the top left that says "go to first unread" but that's it. Nothing like previously. I can scroll through this whole post (everything for today) in one page.
 
I feel good about it too Julie, thanks for your help, I will be fine tonight, do not worry about us.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top