Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=112186
Good morning
Rocky is not coming down. Still in the 300s this morning. :sad:
Good morning
Rocky is not coming down. Still in the 300s this morning. :sad:
1/20 Rocky PMPS 342 +2 318 +4 360 +6 305
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PeterDevonMocha
Member Since 2009
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333
Hi guys .. ok rocky, time to come on back down .. Sorry that the photo was taken during such a rough time .. but he sure is a cutie! Have a great day guys!
Hi guys .. ok rocky, time to come on back down .. Sorry that the photo was taken during such a rough time .. but he sure is a cutie! Have a great day guys!
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333
Thanks for the compliments.. Rocky is such a very sweet, gentle boy...I have a few more photos of him, all from the hospital. I'll try to post a few more later today.
Thanks for the compliments.. Rocky is such a very sweet, gentle boy...I have a few more photos of him, all from the hospital. I'll try to post a few more later today.
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513
I DON'T LIKE THIS!!! 513
This is Rocky's test BEFORE feeding him his 2nd 1/2 can of NVIV at AMPS +3.
Terrified of a DKA..
How much longer before we increase Rocky's insulin dose? My shot trigger finger is getting itchy.
**hoping that was a wrong reading, too much blood on the strip? If it was correct, (I did not do a re-test), that is an awfully hard fall from 500 to 300 in one hour. :sad:
Still not liking the stinky pinkies..
I DON'T LIKE THIS!!! 513
This is Rocky's test BEFORE feeding him his 2nd 1/2 can of NVIV at AMPS +3.
Terrified of a DKA..
How much longer before we increase Rocky's insulin dose? My shot trigger finger is getting itchy.
**hoping that was a wrong reading, too much blood on the strip? If it was correct, (I did not do a re-test), that is an awfully hard fall from 500 to 300 in one hour. :sad:
Still not liking the stinky pinkies..
Barbara and tuffy
Member Since 2009
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +334
When you get a wonky number always retest. the 513 is probably wrong. He is flat sometimes that happens before action starts. Patience
When you get a wonky number always retest. the 513 is probably wrong. He is flat sometimes that happens before action starts. Patience
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +334
Whenever you get a crazy number, always retest. i don't know why you're having so many bad strips, but given the amps 333 and +4 of 334, i think the 513 is probably a bad strip again.
Here's from your condo yesterday:
To count, look at that 113 and then count 3 days forward. That's later this afternoon. Some cats go slightly longer on a bounce. At this point, he's still in it. Gotta hold the dose.
Whenever you get a crazy number, always retest. i don't know why you're having so many bad strips, but given the amps 333 and +4 of 334, i think the 513 is probably a bad strip again.
Here's from your condo yesterday:
julie & punkin (ga) said:
To count, look at that 113 and then count 3 days forward. That's later this afternoon. Some cats go slightly longer on a bounce. At this point, he's still in it. Gotta hold the dose.
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +334
Why would want to see Rocky come down to the blue numbers before we would increase his dose? Are we looking for how low he might go? Will that tell us how much to increase his dose? :roll:
Why would want to see Rocky come down to the blue numbers before we would increase his dose? Are we looking for how low he might go? Will that tell us how much to increase his dose? :roll:
Suzanne & Cobb(GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +334
You base the Lantus dose on the lowest number, not your high preshots. You aren't shooting Lantus for what he is at now, it takes a few hours to kick in, so you're shooting for what his nadir will be. If he drops to 50 on this dose, but his preshot remains high, you would not want to increase because you don't want to give more insulin that would take him under that 50. I know it's confusing...it took me a minute to understand it.
Tina & Rocky said:
You base the Lantus dose on the lowest number, not your high preshots. You aren't shooting Lantus for what he is at now, it takes a few hours to kick in, so you're shooting for what his nadir will be. If he drops to 50 on this dose, but his preshot remains high, you would not want to increase because you don't want to give more insulin that would take him under that 50. I know it's confusing...it took me a minute to understand it.
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349
But he hasn't been below 100 since January 16, that was 4 days ago.
Three days ago he was at 113. That's when he received a 1.0 u of insulin.
What if he remains in the 300s from +4 to PMPS today? What if he remains in 300s AFTER PMPS tonight, with that .75 u of insulin? What if he goes up super high after PMPS tonight, and they are correct tests?
Barbara, I need more ReliOn test strips. Does the ADW online sell them? Do you have a link for that? Thank you :smile:
But he hasn't been below 100 since January 16, that was 4 days ago.
Three days ago he was at 113. That's when he received a 1.0 u of insulin.
What if he remains in the 300s from +4 to PMPS today? What if he remains in 300s AFTER PMPS tonight, with that .75 u of insulin? What if he goes up super high after PMPS tonight, and they are correct tests?
Barbara, I need more ReliOn test strips. Does the ADW online sell them? Do you have a link for that? Thank you :smile:
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349
Tina, while we suspect a cat is bouncing, we don't want to increase the dose because it could cause him to go too low. We have no way of knowing when a bounce will "break", so if (for example) you increased Rocky's dose on the same cycle as the bounce was breaking, he could go dangerously low.
Most bounces last no more than 72 hours (although we're learning they can last longer) so for Rocky's safety, we're saying to wait until at least tomorrow morning before increasing..to give his body all the time it needs to make sure he's cleared the bounce. Yes, it's possible he's already cleared it and is just high again, but there's no way to know, and it's hard on Rocky to go too low..which would then just cause another bounce!! Going from too low, to bouncing, to low, to bouncing is really hard on our kitties
If he's above 150 in the morning, it's probably going to be fine to go ahead and increase his dose to 1 unit but then you'll want to hold the same dose for at least another 6 cycles (unless he drops below 50, which is an automatic reduction)
Getting refill strips from ADW depends on which Relion you have. I think they only strips you can get from ADW that will work are for the Relion Confirm or Micro (I don't know if they have strips that work in the Prime)
Here's the link for those though http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...-01-sensor-blood-glucose-test-strips_4050.htm or you can just get them from WalMart if you're running low.
You don't want to run too low on strips! Most of us keep a spare box of 50 in our "hypo kit", because the times most people seem to run low is when they're cats drop below 50..and that's a dangerous time to not have enough strips.
Tina, while we suspect a cat is bouncing, we don't want to increase the dose because it could cause him to go too low. We have no way of knowing when a bounce will "break", so if (for example) you increased Rocky's dose on the same cycle as the bounce was breaking, he could go dangerously low.
Most bounces last no more than 72 hours (although we're learning they can last longer) so for Rocky's safety, we're saying to wait until at least tomorrow morning before increasing..to give his body all the time it needs to make sure he's cleared the bounce. Yes, it's possible he's already cleared it and is just high again, but there's no way to know, and it's hard on Rocky to go too low..which would then just cause another bounce!! Going from too low, to bouncing, to low, to bouncing is really hard on our kitties
If he's above 150 in the morning, it's probably going to be fine to go ahead and increase his dose to 1 unit but then you'll want to hold the same dose for at least another 6 cycles (unless he drops below 50, which is an automatic reduction)
Getting refill strips from ADW depends on which Relion you have. I think they only strips you can get from ADW that will work are for the Relion Confirm or Micro (I don't know if they have strips that work in the Prime)
Here's the link for those though http://www.americandiabeteswholesal...-01-sensor-blood-glucose-test-strips_4050.htm or you can just get them from WalMart if you're running low.
You don't want to run too low on strips! Most of us keep a spare box of 50 in our "hypo kit", because the times most people seem to run low is when they're cats drop below 50..and that's a dangerous time to not have enough strips.
Barbara and tuffy
Member Since 2009
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349
I get my test strips at WalMart. I always have 100 in reserve and when I open them I get more. Tuffy is a very bouncy girl.
Queen of the Bounce so I can't run out of strips. Hang in there. He will stop bouncing, it will happen on his timetable not ours.
I get my test strips at WalMart. I always have 100 in reserve and when I open them I get more. Tuffy is a very bouncy girl.
Queen of the Bounce so I can't run out of strips. Hang in there. He will stop bouncing, it will happen on his timetable not ours.
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349 +8 355
It sounds like all of the advice givers are of the consensus that Rocky is still bouncing, and that we won't really know if that's correct until tomorrow morning at AMPS. I worry about his highs and DKA more, than I do the lows. I feel like all I need to do for a too low is to feed high carb food to bring him back up. I wouldn't know what to do if he went into 500 or 600 for too long, other than to take him back to the hospital.
I have the ReliOn Confirm Micro so if Walmart is the place where I can get them the cheapest I'll continue to buy them from there. I just didn't know if ADW had a better price on them but it sounds like "no" since you all buy them at Walmart! :YMPEACE:
It sounds like all of the advice givers are of the consensus that Rocky is still bouncing, and that we won't really know if that's correct until tomorrow morning at AMPS. I worry about his highs and DKA more, than I do the lows. I feel like all I need to do for a too low is to feed high carb food to bring him back up. I wouldn't know what to do if he went into 500 or 600 for too long, other than to take him back to the hospital.
I have the ReliOn Confirm Micro so if Walmart is the place where I can get them the cheapest I'll continue to buy them from there. I just didn't know if ADW had a better price on them but it sounds like "no" since you all buy them at Walmart! :YMPEACE:
Suzanne & Cobb(GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349 +8 355
ADW is the best value for buying in bulk. They sell 250 for the price of 200...roughly $70. If you sign up for auto ship you get a discount.
ADW is the best value for buying in bulk. They sell 250 for the price of 200...roughly $70. If you sign up for auto ship you get a discount.
Chris & China (GA)
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky AMPS 333 +3 513 +4 334 +6 349 +8 355
No, you're misunderstanding a little. We do NOT know for sure if he's continuing to bounce at this point..We are just saying that it's possible that he is, and when a bounce "breaks", it can send them down quickly...and if you ALSO increase at the same time, you can run into trouble.
Going too low isn't just a matter of feeding them to get them back up..it also sets them up to bounce again! If they get into low numbers that their body isn't used to, they bounce. That's what you can see on his spreadsheet now. He got into the blues on 1/17 and "bounced" back up into the 400's because his liver isn't used to being in those lower numbers. We know from experience with other cats, that bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear...and they don't always just go up high(bounce) and then come down over the next few days...Some cats bounce high, come down within a cycle or two, then bounce back up, then eventually come down. With Rocky, it's just too soon to know. It's only been 10 days and there was a skipped shot in there too.
If they drop too fast, they can bounce. (like dropping from 400 to 250 in 2 hours for example) We want to try to limit the cycle of going too low, bouncing really high, then going too low, and bouncing really high again as much as possible.
We all understand your concern, and we do share that. We know he's been through DKA once, and if we see him in 500's or higher, we might advise you differently. 300's aren't great, but neither is the cycle of going too low, bouncing high, etc....
We just want you to wait one more cycle...so he's had a full 6 cycles after going into the 100's to make SURE he's done with his bounce.
No, you're misunderstanding a little. We do NOT know for sure if he's continuing to bounce at this point..We are just saying that it's possible that he is, and when a bounce "breaks", it can send them down quickly...and if you ALSO increase at the same time, you can run into trouble.
Going too low isn't just a matter of feeding them to get them back up..it also sets them up to bounce again! If they get into low numbers that their body isn't used to, they bounce. That's what you can see on his spreadsheet now. He got into the blues on 1/17 and "bounced" back up into the 400's because his liver isn't used to being in those lower numbers. We know from experience with other cats, that bounces can take up to 72 hours to clear...and they don't always just go up high(bounce) and then come down over the next few days...Some cats bounce high, come down within a cycle or two, then bounce back up, then eventually come down. With Rocky, it's just too soon to know. It's only been 10 days and there was a skipped shot in there too.
If they drop too fast, they can bounce. (like dropping from 400 to 250 in 2 hours for example) We want to try to limit the cycle of going too low, bouncing really high, then going too low, and bouncing really high again as much as possible.
We all understand your concern, and we do share that. We know he's been through DKA once, and if we see him in 500's or higher, we might advise you differently. 300's aren't great, but neither is the cycle of going too low, bouncing high, etc....
We just want you to wait one more cycle...so he's had a full 6 cycles after going into the 100's to make SURE he's done with his bounce.
julie & punkin (ga)
Member Since 2011
Re: 1/20 Rocky PMPS 342
i agree with Chris & Suzanne's explanations. he's still in a bounce. let's hope he comes down tonight.
i have been told that bouncing highs are not the same danger to the body as not-enough-insulin highs. the bouncing highs are caused by the liver.
i agree with Chris & Suzanne's explanations. he's still in a bounce. let's hope he comes down tonight.
i have been told that bouncing highs are not the same danger to the body as not-enough-insulin highs. the bouncing highs are caused by the liver.
Re: 1/20 Rocky PMPS 342
Hi Tina
It's possible that Rocky will clear the bounce tonight so you can take him up tomorrow. The hardest part is waiting for bounces to clear.
In response to your thoughts that if he goes low, you can just bring him up with food.....yes possibly but also possibly not. I've had a cycle with Gracie and others have had them with their kitties where the depot was so full that the numbers wouldn't come up or stay up with HC or with karo. It's a scary cycle when your kitty is in the 20s and just doesn't want to come out of the 30s or 40s despite constant feeding. And it takes a lot of poking .....
So our goal is to be patient and let the bounce clear, have you continue to test for ketones, and then move the dose up per the protocol.
Hi Tina
It's possible that Rocky will clear the bounce tonight so you can take him up tomorrow. The hardest part is waiting for bounces to clear.
In response to your thoughts that if he goes low, you can just bring him up with food.....yes possibly but also possibly not. I've had a cycle with Gracie and others have had them with their kitties where the depot was so full that the numbers wouldn't come up or stay up with HC or with karo. It's a scary cycle when your kitty is in the 20s and just doesn't want to come out of the 30s or 40s despite constant feeding. And it takes a lot of poking .....
So our goal is to be patient and let the bounce clear, have you continue to test for ketones, and then move the dose up per the protocol.
Tina & Rocky
Member Since 2013
Re: 1/20 Rocky PMPS 342 +2 318
Ok.. he's still staying about the same in the 300s. I don't think I can stay up all night and take blood tests again like I have been doing these past few days. I'm too tired. I've already slept through my alarm clock once. I just feel asleep watching TV right now, and I've got many litter boxes to clean and water bowls to change.
The advise givers should know that this coming Friday, January 24, I will be gone all day again. I'm taking (3) of my foster 5 month old kittens to be neutered at a cat sanctuary in a different city. I won't be able to monitor Rocky all day on Friday and won't know how he is doing until I get home, around his PMPS time.
Ok.. he's still staying about the same in the 300s. I don't think I can stay up all night and take blood tests again like I have been doing these past few days. I'm too tired. I've already slept through my alarm clock once. I just feel asleep watching TV right now, and I've got many litter boxes to clean and water bowls to change.
The advise givers should know that this coming Friday, January 24, I will be gone all day again. I'm taking (3) of my foster 5 month old kittens to be neutered at a cat sanctuary in a different city. I won't be able to monitor Rocky all day on Friday and won't know how he is doing until I get home, around his PMPS time.
Re: 1/20 Rocky PMPS 342 +2 318
I don't think you need to stay up. Just grab a test before you hit the sack (unless the +2 was it) and get some rest.
Friday is a long way off and things can change quickly. Hope you get some rest.
I don't think you need to stay up. Just grab a test before you hit the sack (unless the +2 was it) and get some rest.
Friday is a long way off and things can change quickly. Hope you get some rest.
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