1/2 Gussie AMBG 93, PMBG 95

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-1-gussie-ambg-80-pmbg-90.170560/
'Morning all..
AMBG 93
I don't understand pancreatitis at all. There seems on rhym or reason to it at all, whatsoever....
Thank you for all of your support..
So yesterday was a miserable, hide under the covers and cower wishing the day would just be erased kind of day for both Gussie and I, we both hit our respective walls.
Today he was up, purry, hungry and get this, ate his old ( and healthy) favorite Halshan raw turkey meat with Platinum Performance supplement added and FD chicken crumbles on top. Go figure...I am happy but totally confused now on what meds to give today..
My gut agrees with Ella, that there is something in the combo of meds he had yesterday that set him off badly..
Perhaps the mirt?, perhaps the cerenia adding up in his system having had it three days in a row?..panc aggravated from something in the funds variety he "ate" the day before?, timing of the meds?......So many questions, so many unknowns...even the vet says it's a puzzle to unravel..what worked beautifully one day without a doubt does not the next...

At least he ate ( tho a small portion), it was healthy for him at this meal, and seemed to enjoy it. And he is not agitated. He is sleeping peacefully and relaxed now and as I stroke his back I'm all to aware of the weight he's lost...

Sending vines to all the kits here, surf safely and work that juice! Sending bones yo the tired and stressed Beans here, and extras to those struggling with the sugar dance and extras too to those headed to vetty visits

(I'm sorry I have been kind of awol, I didn't have my tablet on under the covers...)

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I'm so glad Gussie is eating for you today and seems calmer. I wish I could tell you what meds he needs and what he doesn't need. I hope you can find the right balance that works for him. Take good notes on what you give and when and what he eats so you can see if you can find any kind of pattern. Sending prayers.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I'm so glad Gussie is eating for you today and seems calmer. I wish I could tell you what meds he needs and what he doesn't need. I hope you can find the right balance that works for him. Take good notes on what you give and when and what he eats so you can see if you can find any kind of pattern. Sending prayers.

Thanks Carla..I am so hoping some sort of pattern shows itself too....this is a really out of my control feeling situation
And because the bad days are So bad, when he's having a good one I hate to add anything in it that will upend that.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Hmm, I'm really not sure. Looking at his ss meds from yesterday, I'd wonder about the Zenequin only because it's an antibiotic and those are known to make some feel crummy. Why is he taking that one? If he needs it, then he needs it, or at least some AB.

I would doubt that the Bupe, Zofran or Cerenia would make him feel lousy. The bupe could if the dose is too high, but it's most likely he'd feel stoned - it is a narcotic.

That's not much of an answer. Phoning the vet might be a good idea.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Hmm, I'm really not sure. Looking at his ss meds from yesterday, I'd wonder about the Zenequin only because it's an antibiotic and those are known to make some feel crummy. Why is he taking that one? If he needs it, then he needs it, or at least some AB.

I would doubt that the Bupe, Zofran or Cerenia would make him feel lousy. The bupe could if the dose is too high, but it's most likely he'd feel stoned - it is a narcotic.

That's not much of an answer. Phoning the vet might be a good idea.

Hi Julie
Might be the Zenequin, he's taking it for an infection, got a bacterial sinus infection back. I don't think it's tag one tho as he's taken it before several times with no ill affects, it's one he tolerates well. He had the tremors back again in the front legs, those developed last time too when he took cerenia for a few days..it's so frustrating because I had a long in person talk with the vet on the 31 st and since that was a good day he was not among the two taken in for complete work ups. I really don't know anything at this point except that the meds combo seems a bad one for him so I am loath to repeat it and make him so very miserable in addition to the complications of not eating enough..

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

He's just up from a sweet snooze with dreams and eating more healthy turkey., I am hopeful..I would be really happy if I can get him back to eating his healthy food, it's limited in ingredients and best for him health wise and I don't have to fight the others to keep them out of it!
Must be all the powerful LL vines at work

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

Good morning, what a difference a day makes, whoa! Still, what a nerve-wracking puzzle......
I have dealt with stomatitis, UTIs, bladder stones (surgery), pemphigus foliaceus (digit amputation), saddle thrombus, CHF (all in one cat mind you, Uncle's little brother) but never pancreatitis thank the gods. I didn't know it was so bedeviling.
Glad you get to have a happy Gussie this morning. Smiling.

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

Here is Uncle with his brother Squeaky. They were inseparable

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

Must be all the powerful LL vines at work

NO DOUBT

 

[Shoeskitty-GA]

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Hi Julie
Might be the Zenequin, he's taking it for an infection, got a bacterial sinus infection back. I don't think it's tag one tho as he's taken it before several times with no ill affects, it's one he tolerates well. He had the tremors back again in the front legs, those developed last time too when he took cerenia for a few days..it's so frustrating because I had a long in person talk with the vet on the 31 st and since that was a good day he was not among the two taken in for complete work ups. I really don't know anything at this point except that the meds combo seems a bad one for him so I am loath to repeat it and make him so very miserable in addition to the complications of not eating enough..

Dunno really, but I am wondering about his weight loss. If the dosage recommended by your vet is not based on his present weight, but rather on a weight, when Gus weighed a lot more, that might be part of the problem. Does your vet know Gus' present weight? -

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thank you..he's growls and nasty now again..
I'm going to go take some Pepcid..this is killing my stomach

 

[Lincolns Mom]

i have days under the covers too... you arent alone

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Dunno really, but I am wondering about his weight loss. If the dosage recommended by your vet is not based on his present weight, but rather on a weight, when Gus weighed a lot more, that might be part of the problem. Does your vet know Gus' present weight? -

Thanks Kathy, yes but I know the scale can't be right..my scale says 12.8 same as when he was diagnosed but I know he weighs less now, I can feel his bones

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

My vet isn't open Monday's do tomorrow would be the first I can get him in. I will try to get out of a meeting but that's not hopeful as its a consultation with a teacher on a new student that is already overdue..I have a specialist appointment for treatment tomorrow after work and if I cancel that I will not get in for another 4months at least and that will not be good for me. Just gave him his B12 shot. Sheesh you would think he's never had a shot before!

 

[saltycat]

Always glad to see a Gussie post, and especially with good news on today's appy. No apology necessary on taking an evening off, yesterday was a rough day from the sound of it. I hope today continues to be a better day. I wish I could offer some advice on the meds, that sounds like the old "juggling chainsaws."

Keep feeling better Gussie and EAT YOUR FUDS.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thank you
There's so little that makes any sense to me with whatever is going on for him. Gave him some Zofran as he was licking his lips and looks uncomfortable. He also got B12.
He is just miserable again..

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

Damn, there where times when there was a little bupe left lying around and I was tempted to take it. This one stressful seesaw, I'm sorry

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Perhaps the mirt?,

Have you ever tried cyproheptadine with Gussie when you needed an appetite stimulant? We do hear about quite a few cats who's behavior is "off" on mirtz...usually they're more vocal and crazy acting, but ECID so it's possible Gussie would react differently

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Have you ever tried cyproheptadine with Gussie when you needed an appetite stimulant? We do hear about quite a few cats who's behavior is "off" on mirtz...usually they're more vocal and crazy acting, but ECID so it's possible Gussie would react differently

Thanks Chris, I did but when that wasn't getting him to eat I went to the mirt but at yet again a further reduced dose as it did get him to eat. I don't think my vet has any more answers either until we do more extensive tests so I have a contact request in to them. If possible I want to stay with one vet rather than starting bouncing around with overlapping and diverse plans in place. And I trust my vet implicitly do do what's best for him and not rip me off or do things that are not necessary..
I gave him a reduced dose of the Bupe topical, hope that helps him to at least be comfortable. He is eating again, still the raw so maybe that will keep his liver safe today..

 

[HWright]

Just catching up from this morning, Les .
I get more bewildered and dizzy headed by the minute when it comes to pharmos, which is or is not producing which side effect if any and finding the right balance. And just when you think you've got a handle on the magic combo, it all changes.

Sometimes less is more, sometimes more is less, sometimes things are just right. Kind of like Goldilocks testing the Bear family's beds. If only it were that simple .

A couple of thoughts on the meds, based only on my intuition and personal experience:

AB: zenoquin, right? I've never tried that ab but it being an antibiotic, it may be affecting gi tract even if you're including probiotics anyway. Do you think boosting (increasing) the probiotic in fud or gel caps during antibiotic treatment might help?

Mirtz: if I'm remembering correctly, you and your vet had arrived at mini-doses to be every 2-3 days as needed for appy stimulus. Because it is an anti depressant (and other members far more knowledgeable than me are better versed in both the chemistry and wild card variables of effect...ECID), might some cats also experience a sort of withdrawal effect when it wears off...or even during its course? Might that possibility account for the mood changes if/when mirtz is on board or during the inbetween times? Wild guess on my part and not intended to add to your worries. And I'm posing this "what if" with full disclosure that I'm not sure if I'm remembering accurately the cycles or all of the variables during which the "grumpy Gus" comes out.

I have feeling that revisiting the possibility of getting an ultrasound worth thinking about, even if to set your mind at ease.

Love and vines, Gussie, for your appy to pick up! Yo, Gussie Yo, Leslie

ETA I am seeing Chris's post after posting mine. Yes concur about mirtz.

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

I'm sorry Gussie is still having ups and downs...p-titis is often evil like that.

Interestingly...just last night I became suspicious of cerenia with Trix, too. She's been taking it for a long time, but I have a feeling it's now building up too much...her twitches have really magnified lately and I think it's from the cerenia. I'm going to start cutting her back.

It is really hard to say what's bothering him since there are so many frustrating factors.

Have you tried assist-feeding him at all? I'm always a little suspicious of appy stimulants, especially mirtz. If you think you could assist feeding him to get more calories going, you could try skipping the stimulant. That's what I ended up doing with Trix - she could not tolerate the cypro (made her almost pass out), but she wasn't eating enough, so once I knew her tummy was settled (pepcid and cerenia), I would assist-feed part of her daily calories. And, interestingly, sometimes assist-feeding actually acts like a stimulant - it's like it reminds her that a full belly feels good and then she eats more on her own after the assist-feeding.

Prayers to you...

 

[Wendy&Neko]

(((Leslie))) I can so sympathize about the lack of appy and muliple meds. I never did go the mirtz route, as Neko had way too many other meds on board and I didn't want to risk the side effects. I know you really like and trust your vet, but I was pleasantly surprised with the IM vet we ended up going too. Of course he was young and willing to learn and work with me which helped the relationship too. But he did bring the perspective of balance to managing multiple conditions and meds that I found really helpful. And he was also cautious about quantity and numbers of meds. Anyway, just something to keep in mind if you do end up going the ultrasound route.

Neko was on bupe twice daily for a few years for her arthritis. I found it best to keep giving it regularly and stay ahead of pain if I could.

Sending massive appy vines your way.

 

[Taffysmama]

I know how you feel, Les. I have both Taffy and Baby being picky and having panc issues. Wish I knew the magic answer.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

I am just up and reading that Gus was eating then not eating again
I am so sorry you and Gus are still going through this....poor fellow...feeling nauseated is no fun at all. And poor you....it is so hard on the bean and now you are having to juggle work too

Just a couple of thoughts......how is his hydration? Does he ever get dehydrated with pancreatitis? Sheba always gets dehydrated with it and I know that giving SubQ fluids always makes her feel better. If he is not eating or drinking much he could well be a bit dehydrated.

Re his weight and the scales...have you weighed the other cats to see what it says for them?

I know you have mentioned ultrasounds but I can't remember what was decided about doing them or not.
Does your local vet do them?
I hope Gus starts to eat again for you soon.
Sending a jumbo jet packed to the rafters with the strongest Ozzy vines I can find.

Hey Gus buddy........please try and eat your fuds.......Our mamabeans get really upset when we leave our food!
Your friend Sheba

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Thanks Kathy, yes but I know the scale can't be right..my scale says 12.8 same as when he was diagnosed but I know he weighs less now, I can feel his bones

In an older cat, the spine starts to protrude, even though the weight is the same as usual. I don't know if this is what is happening, but it's something to consider.
On the other hand, are you using a human scale, picking Gus up, stepping on the scale, and then putting him down and subtracting to find his weight? That's what I do, but I've found that the weight can be as much as 2 pounds off.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

I thank all of you..if I ever find that elusive magic wand Tricia is on the hunt for I would wave it for every single cat and bean here.

He is so confounding..he woke up, snarled in a most nasty fashion and stomped ( yes, somehow he actually clearly stomps) off to eat some more. ( probably still mirt munchies day 2).

I think I might have found the right dose of Bupe (well at least for today), 1/4 of what was prescribed. Seemed to make him comfortable enough to sleep in a comfy relaxed position and enough to let him feel ok enough to remember eating is good. Or he's reverting to his flash of emotion is followed by food behavior. At least he is no longer meat loafing and in obvious discomfort. I also turned the heat up today. I decided to give the antibiotic at nite rather than in the morning when he is getting other meds. I remember Amy saying Zenequin helped Trixie during a flare so I hate to discontinue it. And it does seem to clear up whatever makes him snugly, which in turn makes it uncomfortable to eat. Will just change the timing.

I do think that having a low fat, meat, limited ingredient food going in should be better for him than fatty, rich canned foods his system is totally not used to processing after several years on just raw turkey, chicken and rabbit..so maybe eating properly will help him too?....grasping I know..i will feed him all the food he looks for ( tho in small portions as recommended) hopefully it will continue to be good food..

Syringe and assist feeding went really badly, both methods..I would consider a feeding tube before having to do that on a regular basis..I mean really badly....

Thanks Bron, I gave him fluids last nite, I do think he gets dehydrated a bit, not severely, but he does get dehydrated.. I'm leery of giving him too much, and he fights them madly even tho they are the right temps and must make him feel better.

They are still a very foreign intrusion for him, having had no vet care his first 16 years. He puts on a great snarling, spitting, hyperventilating show which of course makes me worry about his heart..it's quite the process. If he continues to have such firs about it I mak look into making the vet trips for them if they are needed often. ( tho since it is a skill I possess it will annoy me). Fits and stress for him can't be good at his advanced age.

Again I am in awe that he let me do as many tests and shots etc while we were treating his diabetes. I think the big difference was that he was feeling better not worse as I did those things, why he accepted them.

He still comes up the ramp and sits to wait to be tested before each morning and evening meal. I do love him...so much....

I kind of worry that perhaps he has some fluid retention which is accounting for his weight not dropping despite not eating at least per what the scale says. I can feel his bones so I know he has lost mass. Last comparison, my baby scale is pretty spot on with the vets. I weightd (Baby) Jett a day or do before we weighed him at the vets and they were pretty aligned with a small margin for error. But his urine output is the same as usual.

I have to go out later. I said I would drive for my blind friend ( she is 87) this afternoon/evening so will be out for a few hours and had promised to take her to visit her friend and to supper at our favorite little home run Mexican restaurant ( or wherever strikes her fancy). I am hoping that I can get a few more small meals into him before I have to go out.

Today at least I feel better about WHAT he is eating. His healthy ground turkey meat with a quality complete supplement powder (Platinum Performance Feline) and because he ate Lola's left overs, some high quality fish oil ( she's been diagnosed with a heart murmur he void feel that was not there last visit. Fishoil is now part of her regime..hoping Jett has outgrown his allergies to fish....still waiting for results news on comprehensive labs for Jett and Lola .

That's all the latest around here. Thank you all for sharing what you came up with wearing your thinking caps...it truly does help so much..I only wish I could do the same for each of you too...

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

In an older cat, the spine starts to protrude, even though the weight is the same as usual. I don't know if this is what is happening, but it's something to consider.
On the other hand, are you using a human scale, picking Gus up, stepping on the scale, and then putting him down and subtracting to find his weight? That's what I do, but I've found that the weight can be as much as 2 pounds off.

Hi thanks Kathy, I use a really good baby scale..I had to buy it when I was told (Baby) Jett had hyperthyroidism at age 3...probably needing irradiation..
Turned out he probably gets highly elevated numbers as he has severe white coat syndrome...or it never made him Lise weight nor affected his at home heart rate which I also charted..
Haha I don't think I could see to read the scale if I stand on one with a squirming snarling cat!

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

Thank you..he's growls and nasty now again..
I'm going to go take some Pepcid..this is killing my stomach

Oh, gee.
HUGS

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Les, you have helped many people ......including me. We are all here for each other.
I agree about the canned food if your cat has been on raw for years. Sheba loves a change to canned and she only really gets it when she is sick or if she is running low and needs bringing up.........but more than a couple of days and it doesn't agree with her.
I think your changes in Gus's routine sound good.
If he does have fluid retention an ultrasound should reveal that I would think.
You are doing a fantastic job looking after him in very difficult circumstances.

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Les, you have helped many people ......including me. We are all here for each other.
I agree about the canned food if your cat has been on raw for years. Sheba loves a change to canned and she only really gets it when she is sick or if she is running low and needs bringing up.........but more than a couple of days and it doesn't agree with her.
I think your changes in Gus's routine sound good.
If he does have fluid retention an ultrasound should reveal that I would think.
You are doing a fantastic job looking after him in very difficult circumstances.

Thank you Bron
I am so very glad Sheba is having a good day!!!

 

[Doodles & Karen]

Just sending loads of appy vines, prayers and mega for you. I don't have any insight that could help.

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

Haha I don't think I could see to read the scale if I stand on one with a squirming snarling cat!

That's a great visual! ...even though, at least according to Mandarin my baby scale is also evil and has to be avoided by all means. And I have tried treats and comfy blankets and everything, but he just absolutely refuses to sit still on there.

And I wish I had any words of advice about his med interactions... but am sending lots of vines.

 

[Taffysmama]

He still comes up the ramp and sits to wait to be tested before each morning and evening meal. I do love him...so much....

AWWWWWW....
And he loves you!!! He doesn't mean to be snarly, just cranky with age.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I decided to give the antibiotic at nite rather than in the morning when he is getting other meds. I remember Amy saying Zenequin helped Trixie during a flare so I hate to discontinue it. And it does seem to clear up whatever makes him snugly, which in turn makes it uncomfortable to eat. Will just change the timing.

Does it say to give with food? Most a/bs do, because they can cause tummy upset. Just grasping at straws here. Are you giving a probiotic while he's on it?

Does he seem to need the Cerenia to prevent nausea, or will Ondansetron work for him instead? I had better luck with Ondansetron in all my cats, although I used the Cerenia to prevent car sickness in Sasha. I'm just wondering if eliminating the Cerenia for a few days to see if the tremors stop wouldn't be a good idea. But I don't want to upset the appy cart!

I'm glad you found a dose of Bupe that seems to work. I would give it before he starts looking uncomfortable. It's always best to be ahead of the pain. Perhaps the snarly, nasty Gus is a Gus in pain.

I'm sorry this is stressing you out so much, Les. Hang in there. We're all here for you.

BTW, I'm still looking for that darned wand! One of these days I gotta find it!

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

Les, I'm hopeless when it comes to meds and the incredible variety of meds. So I'll just send Gussie some healing vines and some eat yer fuds vines and hope for the best. I'm glad you're going out tonight with your friend. You need to get away for a few hours to clear your head.

Hugs and scritches,

Ella & Rusty

p.s. Rusty (age not known, but up there in the upper teens, we think) also has lost weight over the years (at his heaviest he was 17 lbs and now is a little under 12 lbs.; prominent backbone, too). But his lab tests are always good. His appetite has never been great (I think his chronic congestion affects his ability to smell his food). He likes to eat when we hold the bowl for him. It's become a ritual, I'm afraid. He has an occasional pancreatitis flare, but not to the extent that you are experiencing with Gus. I hope a vetty visit will provide you with some answers and a consistent treatment with those confounding meds!

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Just checking back in to see how our favorite Gussie is . . . more healing vines coming his way!

 

[Kathy and TiTi]

My vet isn't open Monday's do tomorrow would be the first I can get him in. I will try to get out of a meeting but that's not hopeful as its a consultation with a teacher on a new student that is already overdue..I have a specialist appointment for treatment tomorrow after work and if I cancel that I will not get in for another 4months at least and that will not be good for me. Just gave him his B12 shot. Sheesh you would think he's never had a shot before!

Of course you must preserve your job.
AND
Of course you must keep this doctor appointment.
As goes the bean, so goes her cats!

In other words if you don't take care of yourself, then everyone falls. Cats and Bean together.
SO
Go forth!

Hugs.

 

[Taffysmama]

Of course you must preserve your job.
AND
Of course you must keep this doctor appointment.
As goes the bean, so goes her cats!

In other words if you don't take care of yourself, then everyone falls. Cats and Bean together.
SO
Go forth!

Hugs.

Must print & frame this!!!

 

[Taffysmama]

Sending vines to you and Gussie...hoping for a good night!

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

Thanks all must be that LL magic at work..
Here you go..I'm not going to write much because I'm afraid of jinxing this..

He's only eaten healthy food today!

 

[Barbara & Uncle (GA)]

No don't and I'm not going to say that I am smiling either. By the way, sorry for plastering that big gigantic picture of Uncle in your post. I thought it would be smaller and a little more subtle than that!

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

HOORAH!!!!!( I'm not saying this either, just thinking it)

 

[Gussie's mom (GA)]

No don't and I'm not going to say that I am smiling either. By the way, sorry for plastering that big gigantic picture of Uncle in your post. I thought it would be smaller and a little more subtle than that!

No apologies, I LOVED that big giant picture..beautiful and would even love it bigger!!
Gorgeous!! Feel free to do it again!!