1/2/21 Chicamonkey AMPS 341/+3 238+6 199/8 184/+10 421/PMPS 491
- Thread starter Suzi and Chicamonkey
- Start date
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
I hope so, but that would mean a really big drop between 2+ and the next test...so try to be patient. This stuff takes time.
Love the pic! I didn't realize you were a 'neighbor'..just up the road
Have a great day Suzi!
Love the pic! I didn't realize you were a 'neighbor'..just up the road
Have a great day Suzi!
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
Where are you???I hope so, but that would mean a really big drop between 2+ and the next test...so try to be patient. This stuff takes time.
Love the pic! I didn't realize you were a 'neighbor'..just up the road
Have a great day Suzi!
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
You’re 90 minutes from me!!!!!I hope so, but that would mean a really big drop between 2+ and the next test...so try to be patient. This stuff takes time.
Love the pic! I didn't realize you were a 'neighbor'..just up the road
Have a great day Suzi!
Bandit's Mom
Member Since 2019
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
Make sure you get another test in after that +6 maybe a +8, this looks like a bounce clearing cycle, she may continue to drop after +6. Or the fast drop may have set her up for another bounce.
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
I asked this before the new year, do you mind sharing how you are feeding Chica?
It may seem like being nosey but it really is just to be able to get the full picture to better help you.
Her BG will be dependent not just on the dose but what you are feeding her and at what point in the cycle you are feeding her.
If she is free fed that's ok, but it would be good to know.
Keeping a note on the SS of what you are feeding and when in the cycle can be very useful especially when you have a bouncy cat like Chica.
One other thing just to remind you about changes that we would be very grateful if you could make to the SS, please read this post from Marje one of the mods
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB...ase-read-and-keep-bumped.239456/#post-2709532
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
I’m sorry, I thoygh
She gets fancy feast classics pate.
Twice a day 5A/5 pm
She may get a snack in between bit it’s only been a bit of real chicken or the pure bites treats only .
But that’s rare,
My husband does give her a tsp of ff when I’m at work around noon.
We have been trying to be very strict with her diet
hi
Hi there. I’m sorry I thought I did respond....
She gets fancy feast classics pate.
Twice a day 5A/5 pm
She may get a snack in between bit it’s only been a bit of real chicken or the pure bites treats only .
But that’s rare,
My husband does give her a tsp of ff when I’m at work around noon.
We have been trying to be very strict with her diet
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
I tested her at +8 and then +10
+8 184 +10 was 421 what the heck!!!?!?!??
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
I’m so scared for her
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
Why so little food? Does she have a weight issue?
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
That’s just a bounce from seeing those beautiful blue numbers today... don’t sweat it... she’ll come back down... stay with your dose until you hit 6 cycles.... then let’s see how low that dose has taken her.
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
How often / much should I feed her?
Sometimes she does get three cans a day
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
She is 13 lbs and should be 11
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
She has just bounced not because she is dangerously low, but because she dropped 150pts this cycle, that is quite a large drop.
And she's probably not used to having her BG in those blue numbers.
This triggers a bounce, which is just a physiological reaction, resulting in her liver dumping glucose into her bloodstream.
It's part of the process, some cats are more bouncy than others, one way to reduce the bouncing is to get her into better numbers more regularly, trying to stop the fast drops that she is experiencing, and continuing to adjust the dose, that means taking the dose up when you are sure that you are not missing any lower numbers, so that you know it is safe to take the dose up further.
Food can use food to try and slow those drops, using food to steer can be quite successful.
Did she get food after +6 today?
Thanks for the info, I didn't see it when I looked back I apologies if I missed it.
We do need to be strict with their diet, but on Lantus they usually do better with several meals during the day. In that way cats are much like human diabetics they do much better with small regular meals.
So decide what the right amount of food is for her, and divide that up into regular meals, it's usually best to not feed in the latter half of the cycle as this can bump their numbers up at the end of the cycle (there is less insulin around).
I would suggest giving her two main meals a day and 3 snacks in each cycle at +1 +3 and +5, feed her even if her BG is high and she is bouncing. Once you have done this for a bit and you have seen how it impacts her BG and we can see what is happening with her cycles, depending on her patterns you may need to adapt the snack times to better steer her numbers.
At the moment she is probably running out of fuel midcycle and that and the insulin action is causing a sudden drop in mid to late cycle.
To give you an idea
I would feed
75g at amps/pmps
then George would have 3 snacks of 25g each in each cycle
25g @+1+3+5
This is where an automatic feeder might help when you are at work.
Don't panic if she is even higher by pmps.
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
Do you think three cans a day?She has just bounced not because she is dangerously low, but because she dropped 150pts this cycle, that is quite a large drop.
And she's probably not used to having her BG in those blue numbers.
This triggers a bounce, which is just a physiological reaction, resulting in her liver dumping glucose into her bloodstream.
It's part of the process, some cats are more bouncy than others, one way to reduce the bouncing is to get her into better numbers more regularly, trying to stop the fast drops that she is experiencing, and continuing to adjust the dose, that means taking the dose up when you are sure that you are not missing any lower numbers, so that you know it is safe to take the dose up further.
Food can use food to try and slow those drops, using food to steer can be quite successful.
Did she get food after +6 today?
Thanks for the info, I didn't see it when I looked back I apologies if I missed it.
We do need to be strict with their diet, but on Lantus they usually do better with several meals during the day. In that way cats are much like human diabetics they do much better with small regular meals.
So decide what the right amount of food is for her, and divide that up into regular meals, it's usually best to not feed in the latter half of the cycle as this can bump their numbers up at the end of the cycle (there is less insulin around).
I would suggest giving her two main meals a day and 3 snacks in each cycle at +1 +3 and +5, feed her even if her BG is high and she is bouncing. Once you have done this for a bit and you have seen how it impacts her BG and we can see what is happening with her cycles, depending on her patterns you may need to adapt the snack times to better steer her numbers.
At the moment she is probably running out of fuel midcycle and that and the insulin action is causing a sudden drop in mid to late cycle.
To give you an idea
I would feed
75g at amps/pmps
then George would have 3 snacks of 25g each in each cycle
25g @+1+3+5
This is where an automatic feeder might help when you are at work.
Don't panic if she is even higher by pmps.
I do about 2.5
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
She had no food after plus 6She has just bounced not because she is dangerously low, but because she dropped 150pts this cycle, that is quite a large drop.
And she's probably not used to having her BG in those blue numbers.
This triggers a bounce, which is just a physiological reaction, resulting in her liver dumping glucose into her bloodstream.
It's part of the process, some cats are more bouncy than others, one way to reduce the bouncing is to get her into better numbers more regularly, trying to stop the fast drops that she is experiencing, and continuing to adjust the dose, that means taking the dose up when you are sure that you are not missing any lower numbers, so that you know it is safe to take the dose up further.
Food can use food to try and slow those drops, using food to steer can be quite successful.
Did she get food after +6 today?
Thanks for the info, I didn't see it when I looked back I apologies if I missed it.
We do need to be strict with their diet, but on Lantus they usually do better with several meals during the day. In that way cats are much like human diabetics they do much better with small regular meals.
So decide what the right amount of food is for her, and divide that up into regular meals, it's usually best to not feed in the latter half of the cycle as this can bump their numbers up at the end of the cycle (there is less insulin around).
I would suggest giving her two main meals a day and 3 snacks in each cycle at +1 +3 and +5, feed her even if her BG is high and she is bouncing. Once you have done this for a bit and you have seen how it impacts her BG and we can see what is happening with her cycles, depending on her patterns you may need to adapt the snack times to better steer her numbers.
At the moment she is probably running out of fuel midcycle and that and the insulin action is causing a sudden drop in mid to late cycle.
To give you an idea
I would feed
75g at amps/pmps
then George would have 3 snacks of 25g each in each cycle
25g @+1+3+5
This is where an automatic feeder might help when you are at work.
Don't panic if she is even higher by pmps.
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
It depends on the calories in the food and the size of the cans you are talking about and the size and activity level of the cat
George is a bigger cat than chica, 15-16pounds, that's a good weight for him now, he was more like 18-19pounds when he was on insulin initially, and we managed to get his weight down slowly but surely, so he got about 12 ounces of food and also he had food that wasn't calorie dense.
The calculation below is from Dr Lisas food nutrition site https://catinfo.org/
have never seen a cat develop hepatic lipidosis when consuming at least 15 calories per pound per day. This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight.
If your cat weighs 18 pounds but really should weigh 12 pounds, please make sure that he is consuming ~180 calories per day. (12 pounds lean body mass X 15 calories/pound/day = ~180 calories/day)
so if chica should weigh 11pounds
then to get her to loose weight you would feed
11pounds of lean body mass X 15 calories per pound per day. = about 165
Do read the info on Dr lisas site on cats loosing weight, for a more complete answer, it's important that she doesn't loose weight too quickly, Dr Lisa talks about monitoring the weight loss and adjusting the calories if need be. I had to adjust the calories up for George.
Gill & George
Member Since 2015
I want you to take a look at a couple of cycles,
Yesterday mornings 1/2 and 12/30
Both these cycle started in pink and finished in red, can you see that on 12/30 she was dropping at +2, I believe this was another bounce clearing cycle, and I would strongly suspect that she dropped significantly lower somewhere midcycle. How low is anyones guess. Usually the lower/faster they drop the more dramatic the bounce.
This has been my concern when you have seen her have some black PS values, like for example on 12/23 where she started in red dropped almost 100pts by +2 (bells going off in my head at this point/ could this be another bounce clearing cycle?? it looks like one). Then as you were in work the next test is not till pmps where you get a black PS.....
Question you need to ask yourself
How low did she go?
We just don't know... maybe the 100pt drop by +2 was enough to trigger the bounce, maybe she just dropped to yellow or maybe she dropped to green?? Who knows??
Knowing that you normally have been feeding just at amps and pmps, makes it more probable that she continued to drop through that cycle until that bounce was triggered, that might have been by +4 or it might have been by +8 like happened yesterday.
So though I would be the first to tell you to take a dose up if she is persistently in high numbers, I would also exercise some caution if you haven't got the data to support taking the dose up confidently, it's particularly difficult when they bounce the way Chica has done.
I do however think, that changing her feeding routine may well help with these crazy drops and bounces, making it easier for you to manage her BG confidently even when you are out at work and can't get those midcycle numbers.
Yesterday mornings 1/2 and 12/30
Both these cycle started in pink and finished in red, can you see that on 12/30 she was dropping at +2, I believe this was another bounce clearing cycle, and I would strongly suspect that she dropped significantly lower somewhere midcycle. How low is anyones guess. Usually the lower/faster they drop the more dramatic the bounce.
This has been my concern when you have seen her have some black PS values, like for example on 12/23 where she started in red dropped almost 100pts by +2 (bells going off in my head at this point/ could this be another bounce clearing cycle?? it looks like one). Then as you were in work the next test is not till pmps where you get a black PS.....
Question you need to ask yourself
How low did she go?
We just don't know... maybe the 100pt drop by +2 was enough to trigger the bounce, maybe she just dropped to yellow or maybe she dropped to green?? Who knows??
Knowing that you normally have been feeding just at amps and pmps, makes it more probable that she continued to drop through that cycle until that bounce was triggered, that might have been by +4 or it might have been by +8 like happened yesterday.
So though I would be the first to tell you to take a dose up if she is persistently in high numbers, I would also exercise some caution if you haven't got the data to support taking the dose up confidently, it's particularly difficult when they bounce the way Chica has done.
I do however think, that changing her feeding routine may well help with these crazy drops and bounces, making it easier for you to manage her BG confidently even when you are out at work and can't get those midcycle numbers.
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
Ok, so in your previous email when you questioned why I feed her so little.... that formula is what I was going by and when she gets 2-2.5 cans per day of ff pate at 80-90 calories per can, then I’m right on target for her. Plus with her bit getting dry food anymore, she should come down in time.It depends on the calories in the food and the size of the cans you are talking about and the size and activity level of the cat
George is a bigger cat than chica, 15-16pounds, that's a good weight for him now, he was more like 18-19pounds when he was on insulin initially, and we managed to get his weight down slowly but surely, so he got about 12 ounces of food and also he had food that wasn't calorie dense.
The calculation below is from Dr Lisas food nutrition site https://catinfo.org/
have never seen a cat develop hepatic lipidosis when consuming at least 15 calories per pound per day. This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight.
If your cat weighs 18 pounds but really should weigh 12 pounds, please make sure that he is consuming ~180 calories per day. (12 pounds lean body mass X 15 calories/pound/day = ~180 calories/day)
so if chica should weigh 11pounds
then to get her to loose weight you would feed
11pounds of lean body mass X 15 calories per pound per day. = about 165
Do read the info on Dr lisas site on cats loosing weight, for a more complete answer, it's important that she doesn't loose weight too quickly, Dr Lisa talks about monitoring the weight loss and adjusting the calories if need be. I had to adjust the calories up for George.
I hope.
in your experience, have you seen insulin resistance in cats?
If it takes 6 cycles to clear a bounce and we are increasing in the 7th cycle , the increase might force a drop but..... it seems so hard on the body?
Suzi and Chicamonkey
Member Since 2020
And she’s not very active, never has been. She takes a few walking laps around the perimeter of the pool daily. And plays with toys fir 10 minutes....It depends on the calories in the food and the size of the cans you are talking about and the size and activity level of the cat
George is a bigger cat than chica, 15-16pounds, that's a good weight for him now, he was more like 18-19pounds when he was on insulin initially, and we managed to get his weight down slowly but surely, so he got about 12 ounces of food and also he had food that wasn't calorie dense.
The calculation below is from Dr Lisas food nutrition site https://catinfo.org/
have never seen a cat develop hepatic lipidosis when consuming at least 15 calories per pound per day. This number is figured on lean body weight, not fat weight.
If your cat weighs 18 pounds but really should weigh 12 pounds, please make sure that he is consuming ~180 calories per day. (12 pounds lean body mass X 15 calories/pound/day = ~180 calories/day)
so if chica should weigh 11pounds
then to get her to loose weight you would feed
11pounds of lean body mass X 15 calories per pound per day. = about 165
Do read the info on Dr lisas site on cats loosing weight, for a more complete answer, it's important that she doesn't loose weight too quickly, Dr Lisa talks about monitoring the weight loss and adjusting the calories if need be. I had to adjust the calories up for George.