1/17 Zener PMPS 292;+2.5 325;+6 191 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

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Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Anne & Liz :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: I have no advice on these things, but to hope that it is a progression of the IBD and not lymphoma. You know how to deal w/ that and the CKD is doable too. Knowledge is power, even at time when we would rather go blissfuly along in ignorance. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Morning guys I would be overwhelmed too hope it is not lymphoma! Sending positive thoughts your way that things are treatable! Nice numbers for Zener today. Have a good day and stay positive!!!
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

(((Anne and Liz)))

Wow....I'm stunned as I'm sure you both are, too.

As you know, Teddi was diagnosed with large cell lymphoma which is the more aggressive type that responds less favorably to chemo. However, she was responding nicely to chemo when she threw a blood clot to her lungs. So it wasn't the lymphoma that took our baby away. Linda and Bear Man's Teddy dealt with small cell lymphoma for quite a long time and even went into remission.....and that is often quite true with small cell lymphoma.

As in all things, ECID. The oncologist and critical care specialist taking care of Teddi had a very difficult time getting an aspirate to do the biopsy but her U/S was very indicative of her condition. The needle biopsies did not seem to bother her but neither did they do any good. I would not have agreed to a surgical biopsy as she 16 and had multiple other health issues by then including CKD and hyperT. She was given dexamethazone (steroid) with the chemo. None of us wants to give our FDs steroids but you know that if it is the best thing for him, you can adjust the insulin dose. I would ask about budesonide. It is a steroid but it is more "designed" specifically for IBD and the GI tract and it's possible, but I don't know, that it might not have as much an effect as pred. Again....I don't know that....just speculating.

Of course, you don't want to start any chemo if you don't know what he has so I would investigate the budesonide path. I know it helps IBD....will it help lymphoma if that is the case? I don't know. But if it won't hurt and he responds to it, then you are one step ahead.

Sending him and you both many prayers. If there is any way I can help, please let me know. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

My civvie Daphne Moon was diagnosed with lymphoma in January 2012, and also developed CRF. I need to pull up her records to look at the U/S results, but I know they took aspirates. She responded very well to chemo treatment, though the first type ended up too harsh for her kidneys and she was switched to a different protocol. She was essentially in remission until she became ill this past October with persistent vomiting/diarrhea that never resolved. We did not repeat the U/S and aspiration to determine if the lymphoma had recurred since she had maxed out her time on chemo and chances of it helping were very low. She went to the Bridge in November, but can't be sure exactly what caused it.

Bottom line is that as others have stated, some cats with lymphoma do very well. Whenever any of my cats had U/S, I always gave permission to take aspirates if they saw anything suspicious. I don't know what your options are in terms of getting a definitive diagnosis so appropriate treatment can commence quickly. I'll add more info later tonight if I can find it in her file.

I know how much this weighs on your heart.
Keeping you and Zener in my prayers,

MJ
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

Dear Anne & Liz,

We hope that whatever it turns out to be that it will be very treatable. Sending tons of prayers and healing vines. Stay positive. We are all here for you, whether or not we can actually help with the medical things.

BIG HUGS,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Oh dear........sending good thoughts for Zener. Hoping there's a good solution to keep him comfortable and happy.
cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Thank you so much for responding and giving us encouragement and comfort. The funny thing about the U/S was we were doing it to rule out kidney infection and see if the images were more conclusive for CKD, which it was. The reason we took him in to the vet this time was an increase in Zener's drinking and peeing despite his better BG values, and he has not had any GI symptoms at all. His eating has improved and we are rarely needing to use any appy stimulant, and his weight has stabilized. The combination of ondansetron, zantac and cerenia has seemed to stabilize his possible IBD, which the vet thought was going on last year based on the first U/S. He has not had any vomiting or diarrhea in a very long time and is not having any of those symptoms at this time.

We are also in a pretty small town with no veterinary specialists, like internal medicine or oncology, so we would have to take him at least three hours away for anything like a biopsy. He does not travel well. And, we are a little reluctant to do more invasive procedures at this point, since he isn't having GI symptoms.

Please keep sharing the information you all have, it is so very helpful and will be important as we make decisions on how to proceed. :YMHUG:

In the meantime, our little bare bellied sweetheart has done yard patrol, had a healthy poop, chased a few birds and is now napping with MamaLizBean.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

I just want to repeat what others said... Insulin dose can be worked around a steroid. Steroid can be effective for lymphoma so I wouldn't worry about Zener not being a candidate for their use.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Just wanted drop in here to give you all some support. The best thing I can give you right now are some big ole Texas-size hugs and healing vines. Just know I'm thinking about you.

(((((Anne))))) (((((Liz))))) ((((( Zener)))))


Tena
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

I have not been following Zener's condo regularly lately, but I did stop in today when I saw the lymphoma subject.

As Marje mentioned, my civvie Teddy had small cell intestinal lymphoma. He was diagnosed via biopsies taken by endoscopy. Full thickness biopsy is more informative, but I was not willing to go through such an invasive surgery at the time. Endoscopy (colonoscopy) was uncomfortable due to the prep and sedation, but recovery was quick. I don't believe that we had seen lymph node enlargement on U/S, so aspiration was not discussed at the time. Actually, Teddy had a FNA done on his pancreas shortly before he passed away last year, and recovery from that particular procedure was quick, though the news was not good. Teddy was not a sick kitty at the time of his lymphoma diagnosis. Back then, Bear Man was very seriously ill, and Teddy was healthy in appearance but having some vomiting and blood in his stool. Both cats went in for endoscopy on the same day. I was shocked when the diagnoses came back as IBD for Bear Man and lymphoma for Teddy. The vet reminded me at the time that IBD is no easy disease either, and Bear Man's experiences confirmed that.

In any event, I did not know anything at the time, but the IM vet said that Teddy needed IV chemo and we went for three rounds of that. That was very difficult (sedation needed each time). After no improvement in his symptoms, the vet wanted to cease treatment, saying he had only months to live. I went to researching the options and discovered that a protocol of an oral chemotherapeutic agent, Leukeran (a.k.a. Chlorambucil) with Prednisolone was, at that time, the gold standard. It was still recommended as such when I spoke to an oncologist a couple of years ago, but I cannot state if it is still the case or not. Teddy, who was not a diabetic, started on the protocol, and survived another seven years before he died of a different (pancreatic) cancer. I have to say that I am the world's biggest fan of Leukeran, as it saved Teddy's life. You would have to discuss with a vet whether the protocol would be suitable for Zener, but it is worth discussing. I would try to get in touch with an oncologist if possible. I know that you have a concern about steroids (such as Prednisolone) and diabetes. I don't know if the protocol would work with Leukeran alone, or with Leukeran in combo with Budesonide. I know that Budesonide is used for IBD (didn't work for Bear Man) and that is has a more local reaction in the gut as compared to the more systemic effect of Prednisolone. I don't know if it is a valid replacement for Prednisolone in the Prednisolone/Leukeran protocol. You don't have a full diagnosis at this time, so it is a hard call. That is why I would try to get more info from an oncologist if possible. If there is any possibility that you will want to do any sort of biopsy in the near future, you can't start treatment with any steroid, as it will invalidate the result of the biopsy.

Teddy also took Ondansetron, Pepcid, and other meds as he had fairly chronic nausea, vomiting, mild inappetance, and diarrhea on and off over the years, but was on the whole a very happy and active cat during his "remission". Bear Man was always a very sick cat with his IBD. I understand that IBD can transform into lymphoma over time, as they are somewhat of two things along a continuum. This is another good reason to try and control the inflammation of IBD if possible. The two boys also took Metronidazole as it was reputed to soothe the GI tract, but I believe that this med may now be controversial in this regard (sorry I have lost touch a bit with these topics as Bear and Teddy are gone now).

I believe that Leukeran is also given as a treatment for IBD, so it may not be unreasonable to try it, if an oncologist recommends it. It is a somewhat heavy duty chemo drug, however, and has some side effects, notably inappetance and mild nausea, so it is obviously not something to undertake lightly. It is just something to ask the doctor about. The upside is that it is given orally at home, and that is should not affect BG's. Bear tried it for his IBD, but he could not tolerate it. The only thing that helped him was steroids, and he became a diabetic as a result of taking them.

I know what a nightmare this is for you. I will never forget the day the vet called me with Teddy's diagnosis, especially as I was not expecting to hear that he (the healthier looking kitty) was the one who had cancer. Those were hard times. The only thing that you can do is arm yourself with as much information as you can find, and then go with your gut as to what is right for Zener. There is no right or wrong answer. I just thought that I would share my experience with you. If Zener is happy and healthy(ish) right now, doing nothing for the time being may be the way to go. I'm sorry that you are going through this.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Hi Anne and Liz, I am so sorry to hear that the U/S shows possible GI lymphoma. From the way it went yesterday, it all looked so positive. I am mustering up all the vines and prayers possible for little Zener. I would have to dig out my GA kitty's records, but he had intestinal lymphoma and was on Leukeran for a while, also prednisone and oral cancer drugs. He had a large cell lymphoma and was not a candidate for chemo. Lots of hugs and prayers.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Anne & Liz :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: I'm so sorry to hear about the possible lymphoma. I hope you can get a definite answer soon so you'll know how to proceed to help Zener. Sending prayers for Zener's health, your peace of mind and wisdom to know how to best help Zener.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

My Daphne started on IV chemo, and at no time was she drugged for it. Perhaps it depends on how feisty the cat is. If I recall correctly, it was alternating vincristine/cytoxan weekly. Then she was switched to oral chemo CCNU, a.k.a. lomustine. Based on what I have read and heard, the sooner you start treatment, the better chances for remission. I know you're still trying to wrap your head around this possible diagnosis, but I would consider getting a more definitive answer relatively quickly. It sucks that it requires traveling so far.

Praying for the best possible outcome for Z-man.

MJ
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

(((Anne & Liz))) What a turnaround from yesterday. No wonder you are feeling overwhelmed. Please pass on many hugs and scritches to Zener from us. It's good to see that he is feeling good and doesn't care what the exam says.

There is lots of good info from experienced people here. Although I don't have experience with kitty lymphoma, I did spend a lot of time with a friend at a veterinary oncologist last year (for a dog with lymphoma). A good oncologist is definitely worth traveling to to get the latest in research and to discuss the many options for treatment. The trip for us was only about 45 minutes but there were people coming over from Vancouver Island to this particular oncologist, and that with the ferry trip would be a full day for them. From talking to other people in the waiting room, leukeran still seemed to be used for a number of kitties, if you end up having to go that route.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

I found these groups both informative and supportive during Latte's journey of ARF/CRF, IBD/lymphoma.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline_lymphoma/?yguid=6606790
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/felineibd1/?yguid=6606790
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/tanyas-crf-support/?yguid=6606790

We did not do a biopsy because of age and expense. It was also explained that the majority of tx for IBD or lymphoma are the same. The popular choices of medications are one's others already mentioned. Budesonide, Prednisolone, and Leukeran. Im sure there are more. The Pred was our choice due to cost, and it really helped her out until the diabetes came along. Even then, it helped for quite a while. We tried a switch to Leukeran soon after the diabetes dx, but that did not go over too well with her.

I think if you started an introductory post in all of the above links, you will find some sort of direction.

It seems like such a blow to get so much thrown at Zener at once. I'm sorry. But know, there are many of us out here and other places who have helped our kitties maintain a good quality of life for a long time, despite the diagnoses.

:YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

Sending prayers and big hugs. I'm so sorry you are facing new issues.
I don't have any experience with either.
Scritches for Zener... so good that he's enjoying his time. cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 1/17 Zener AMPS 104;+2 120;+4 80 U/S lymphoma?

sending lots of prayers and support and healing vines to Zener so sorry to hear of the dx but hope its treatable (((((((hugs)))))))
 
Re: 1/17 Zener PMPS 292 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

I can't give advice but am sending (((hugs))), healing vines and wishes and prayers that its treatable.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener PMPS 292 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

:YMHUG: Thank you so much for your insights and information, we are indeed overwhelmed with the knowledge here in LL. We got in touch with our vet today, and she is meeting with us in the morning to show us the U/S, and go over the results, other possible tests, treatment options and any other questions we have. We will be taking our iPad with all of your wonderful information to ask about.

Right now our big guy is still enjoying picnics outside despite his bare belly, and our temperatures have finally gotten above zero F at night.
 
Re: 1/17 Zener PMPS 292;+2.5 325 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

Hi Anne and Liz - I wish I could be of help to you. The only one of these that I am remotely familiar with is CKD, which I know can be managed, as I have done that several times. I will continue to hope that what was seen is a possible progression of the IBD, and not lymphoma. Keeping you guys in my thoughts and prayers. I know ho it is when you go in for one things and leave the vetty with a slate full of others. Hugs to all! .
 
Re: 1/17 Zener PMPS 292;+2.5 325 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

Just stopping in to add our prayers to the pile...my gut instinct - which is very rarerly wrong - is telling me that this is just a teeny little blip, and all will be perfectly fine with Zener.

Many hugs to you...
 
Re: 1/17 Zener PMPS 292;+2.5 325 CKD, IBD/lymphoma?

I was surprised to see this post & of course I was upset for you & Zen Man!!
BUT As You know, Moonie was Dx'd with an intestinal tumor, and was given a U/S & an aspiration which proved inconclusive...The er vets wanted us to do this again & we said No. As you remember,
this was just about when the Hurricane had destroyed our lives, and we were so very despondent..
We did see an oncologist who gave us options, & said it could be a lymphoma, adenocarcinoma, or a mast cell tumor, & at best with chemo, or whatever, not good!!
We went to our own vets, & explained that we do not want to put Moonie through any more upset, tests, & needles, nor do we want to give her a drug that may make her not be well-- she is 16 1/2 yrs old & has enough going on with FD, HYper T, and now this


So, our vet, & the others had mentioned that Prednisolone is a treatment for some of these ailments, and can shrink, but not get rid of some tumors. and YES it does screw with the numbers for a diabetic, but~~~~
As you can see with Moonie it's not so terrible... So so far ANTIJINX ANTIJINX ANTIJINX, it is OK!
Some side effects, thirsty, more hungry, weight gain, & few others, but we can live with it ...

Know how much we love Zen Man & wish this wasnt, but whatever it is, do what you both decide to do, Love him, and give him all you can...He doesnt know anything is wrong, it's just another day for Him..
We Love you & will help all we can!!!Prayers for Healing for our friend ZENER!
 
So sorry that you all have to go throught this. Hope the condition can clarify & you found the way to proceed. Good that Mr Z is happy & not bothered by the bare belly!
Sending white light vines to you, Liz, Ann & Zener!
 
(((Ann & Liz)))

I'm so sorry to hear this. I don't have much to add to what others have said. We "inherited" Parker (GA) some 6 years ago(not FD) and he had
lymphoma confirmed by biopsy. He was put on Leukeran & pred and responded very well. The loss of appetite Leukeran can cause was completely
countered by the pred in his case.

That being said, we're praying that in Zener's case it's a progression of the IBD. Hang in there :YMHUG:
 
Here's hoping its IBD, not GI cancer.

One thing about chemo in companion animals - they are often going for control, not cure, because the dose for cure would have more side effects. Although they said chemo was well tolerated, I had a civvie with lymphoma of the bone (rare - he'd seen about 5 in 20 years) and she had violent diarrhea after every session, until I finally wised up and asked for meds to suppress it each time. The lymphoma invaded her kidneys, causing renal failure, which is what finally resulted in her euthanasia.
 
Mr. Z! Oh peadoodle sweet boy, sendin' lots of thoughts and prayers for it being just that 'blip'.

BIG HUGE LOOOOONG HUGS Anne and Liz - I KNOW this feeling and I don't like that YOU have to know it too....
 
Hi guys .. I just caught this condo and I wanted to say that I'm keeping you guys in prayers .. I can't imagine hearing that possible diagnosis when he is showing no signs .. maybe you have caught it very early which would be the best thing, right? Well, other then him not having it at all of course .. ((hugs))
 
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