1/17 Ole PMPS 223 +2 273 +4 332 +7 317

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Rebekah

Rebekah

Member Since 2013
Good morning!

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=112000

Last night's dark BG's

PMPS Hi
+3 505
+4 Hi
+4.5 471
+5 532 Relion meter
+5 514 back up Alpha Trak meter
+6 422
+10.5 496 gave .1uR
+11 503
+11.5 449 (+1 R)

I went ahead with the R dose, unfortunately I over slept by .5, but I didn't want to wait. Last night was really tough on me and many tears were shed. Today, I am able to closely monitor, so I wanted to use another tool to help Ole hammer down his absurdly high BG's.

Thank you all that are pulling for us! We need all the luv we can get over here.

Ole was active this morning as he was anticipating his breakfast. He was sitting here washing his little mug, which is always a mess after meals. Oh, he just jumped up on Alex's lap and has a big happy purr, kneading away. This sight is making my heart soar. I'm definitely on an emotional roller coaster.

Thanks again!
Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396(+2.5R) +3 304(+3.5R)

Hi!

Here we are at +3.5 into a R dose, and Ole seems to be coming down pretty slowly. We are tired, so I think I will try to relax with my kitty today as I feel like I've been spinning like a top as per usual by the end of the week. I wonder who isn't feeling like they're spinning like a top by the end of the week!

Keep pulling for us and I hope Ole is able to ease into a yellow surf, but I'll take pink. I'll try to regulate with food. He had some ck and Salmon at +2. He also tested Neg for K this morning.

Thanks again for your support and visits today. We bask in the warmth of friends.

Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396(+2.5R) +3 304(+3.5R)

Hi guys .. feline diabetes can definitely pull on all our emotions can't it? Just remember to breathe and know that you are doing what you can for your little guy .. by the sounds of it, he's a pretty happy camper this morning! have a great weekend guys!
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396 +2 304(+3.5R) +3 264 (+4

R has run it's course, and I feel pleased with the results. I hope it allows Lantus to hang around longer and help Ole keep his end cycle numbers down. Any ideas as to why Lantus seems to lose effectiveness at the end of Ole's cycle. The vial was purchased at the beginning of Dec and has been treated with kidd gloves.

We are pretty beat over here, but it should be a pretty chill day for us. I gave him a generous snack of CK and salmon at +3.

Thanks again!

Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396 +2 304(+3.5R) +3 264 (+4

Good Morning ~O)

Well that is indeed much better :cool:

The R will give Lantus a better starting point.

The Lantus duration. . . is what it is. I did not have duration problems with BK, so I can't speak to that. There may be other who have had the same issue and hopefully will chime in.

So happy to see you testing for ketones daily. You are doing great!

It can be an emotional roller coaster, no doubt about that. We all have been there.
You have many things in your favor; Ole is healthy and happy, Alex is a partner in Oles care, you have flexibility in your work schedule and both you and Alex are clearly devoted to Ole. Your dedication to getting his FD figured out and treated is strong and admirable.

My father always spoke of "The 3 P's" - Patience, Persistence and Perseverance.
Apply them when faced with adversity and you will prevail.
( really good ice-cream helps too - I went through gallons of it. . . . ;-) )
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396 +2 304(+3.5R) +3 264 (+4

Hey Rebekah,

No idea on why he jumps at the end of the cycle. Maybe because he's used up all the insulin earlier in the day? We noticed Cobb had that problem on ProZinc, but it's a shorter acting insulin. I'm sure someone else can give you a better answer.

Good job with the R. Ole, the yellow really does look better on you that the red and black. Can you keep it there for awhile? Your beans are tired and worried...cut them a break, k?? Cobb wanted me to tell you that he wants some company on the yellow floor...and bring some sunglasses for him, ok? :cool: :lol:

Get some rest, Rebekah! You're doing great!

~Suzanne (and Cobb)
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396 +2 304(+3.5R) +3 264 (+4

It's nice to see the R has helped Ole slide down today. How nice that he jumped on Alex's lap for some loving.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(1.5R) +1 396 +2 304 +3 264 (4.5R +5 1

Thank you all for your kind words of support. We really value them. It is great to know that I am not alone in this marathon. ECID, and that's why we love them, right!

I gave Ole a bigger +5 snack of 1/2 c FF chicken feast because I felt that he was dropping too quickly. Though is is awesome to see some blue, I would like to have him stay in the high yellows to try to minimize the inevitable bounce. Is that good logic? He can definitely handle the calories because he weighs 9.0 lbs.

Let me know your thoughts, and thanks again!

Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(1.5R) +1 396 +2 304 +3 264 (4.5R +5 1

HEY BLUE!!!!

Logically that makes sense but I don't know if it works that way.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(1.5R) +1 396 +2 304 +3 264 (4.5R +5 1

Awwww, really? If I was a cat's liver, that's how I'd work!

At any rate, he's happy and satiated and sleeping in a sunbeam with his buddy Loki.

Signed:
Sleepy on Crestview
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(1.5R) +1 396 +2 304 +3 264 (4.5R +5 1

Sure would be nice if we knew all the answers, wouldn't it?

Yeah for BLUE!!

It does make sense that if you keep him from going down, you might reduce the bounce, but as frustrating as bouncing is, it's just another fact of this disease that you have to live with. We want them spending as much time as possible in numbers below renal threshold and unfortunately, especially at the beginning, that leads to bouncing. The more time he does spend in the blues and greens, the more "normal" it'll feel to Mr. Liver, but waiting for him to realize that a blue or green number IS good is one of the most frustrating parts of this dance.

Look at all the positives you've got with Ole! Some days that's all any of us have to go on..that at least our kitties are feeling better, even if their numbers don't always show it
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(1.5R) +1 396 +2 304 +3 264 (4.5R +5 1

Rebekah:

So nice to see Ole come down from those scary numbers. I can see why you are absolutely drained. What a roller coaster you've been on! Seeing Ole jump in Alex's lap for lovin' really helps you deal with it all, though, doesn't it? :smile:

Sending lots of good vines Ole's way, and hugs to you and Alex for being such awesome beans. Ole is so lucky to have you. :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 end R +5 194 +7 140

Hi Sandy, Suzanne Chris Carla Tricia and all the rest of you, you know who you are...thanks for all of your help! I feel that I am beginning to sound like a broken record, but I am truly grateful to you all.

I gave Ole more FF at +7 after another blue reading. The relief I feel after last night is enormous. That was a toughie and I'm not that tough!

I have about another 1/2 hour of work before we can truly rest. Ole has been nappy all afternoon, which is nice to see as usually when I'm at home, he is frantically looking for food.

Well, back at it!

Thank you as always,

Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 end R +5 194 +7 140

Rebekah

So nice to see the R working. Typically we would expect to see just a 50-100 mg/dL decrease.

I have seen problems with duration on different SSs and it sometimes has been called "big insulin poop out". Something you said today hit me like a rock.....that you fed him at +7.

Please forgive me if I am being redundant; lots of new members here and so I might have put this on your condo thinking I had done it on someone else's. As we try to figure out why he might be losing any duration, it would be helpful if you could please put an asterisk in the columns when you feed him. So if you feed him at +1, just put an asterisk there. I know you put it in the Remarks, but all of his food doesn't appear to be there. AND for those of us who do better with visuals (and many of us do), seeing that asterisk helps us figure out if there could be something going on.

Where I am headed with this is that you generally do not want to feed after nadir unless you have low numbers. Feeding at or after nadir when numbers aren't low puts a brake on the insulin. It's as if you are driving a car (the insulin) and approaching a stop sign (the next PS). You can take your foot off the accelerator and let the car glide to the stop sign. But if you slam on the brakes (feed at/after nadir), then the car stops immediately and doesn't make it to the stop sign.

I do see you are feeding him baked chicken as a snack and that should be relatively LC but some kitties are carb sensitive AND if he's not yet at his fitting dose on the insulin, it could be one more factor in his numbers. Maybe...maybe not. But it's worth a try.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS 427(+1.5R) +1 396 +2 304(+3.5R) +3 264 (+4

Rebekah said:
Any ideas as to why Lantus seems to lose effectiveness at the end of Ole's cycle.
Click to expand...
the "loss of effectiveness" you're seeing is actually very common in kitties who aren't close to having reached an optimum Lantus dose.
we call it BIPO or Big Insulin Poop Out. :cool:

simply put, there's not enough insulin on board to last through the entire cycle. once Ole gets closer to an optimum basal dose you'll see the duration extend.


regarding timing when using R:
both marje and sandy brought up some good points yesterday... imo, worth reviewing today. Ole's numbers were high enough this time so as not to cause a problem, but normally we don't use R when there's a possibility a bounce could be breaking. remember, we're only looking for a 50 - 100 point drop from a single shot of R. anything more than that has the ability to set up another bounce. ECID.



ETA: marje posted while i was typing. i agree with her 110%. feeding after nadir doesn't work well with most kitties. it's like putting the brakes on whatever action is left on the insulin.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 end R +5 194 +7 140

Hi,

Thank you for all of your helpful advice.

A couple of points I need clarification on. Regarding nadir, I thought nadir was the lowest reading of the day. I fed Ole at +7 because the number was lower that at +5, did I do wrong? I didn't give him a snack now because his +9 is higher than his +7. Are you telling me that nadir always at +6? I will incorporate the * and it will help me too, thank you.

I'm also a little confused about snacks. I asked about plain baked salmon a couple of days ago and was told that although salmon is good, cats do better with birds, so I baked a plain chicken breast with skin removed and now I don't think that is right either. I would rather give him a cooked plain meat for his snacks than FF. The snack thing really confuses me because I have never given my cats snacks before, I feel they get too beggy. Also, giving Ole a meat protein snack at the time of a test seems to make the test go easier.

I also get it about R, but a whole cycle of high reds and blacks can't be good either. He had a much larger drop today on L than he did on R.

Thanks again for your time. It must be frustrating guiding all of us newbies with our crazy cats.

Rebekah, and Ole says, "meow"
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 end R +5 194 +7 140

Wow ! What a difference a day makes :cool:

I followed a different feeding schedule with BK (I feel like I followed a different everything with BK). BK was the poster kitty for the 'D' in ECID .

FWIW, I fed BK a full meal at PS and mini meals at +4 and +8, both AM & PM cycles. We were in seriously uncharted waters. All we really knew about IAA was that it is self limiting and could break anytime and with that came the potential for releasing large amounts of insulin previously bound to the antibodies. Being that I was shooting up to 45u per day (combined L and R), that added an extra layer of. . . concern.

Using the programmable timed feeder , particularly on the overnight was a lifesaver. Knowing there would be food available periodically throughout the cycle made it easier for me to sleep in the main house, in my bed, instead of the futon in my office at BK Central (the cottage out back).

Figuring out the best methods to help Ole at any given time in this journey will be a continual process. We share our individual experiences and findings in hopes that some common thread will help. ECID is a fact, not a cop-out.

For some of us the journey has been very challenging. We stumble, we observe, we document - and do our best to learn how to safely navigate.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 +5 194 +7 140 +9 16

Rebekah

You didn't do anything wrong :-D We are just making suggestions to try and help him along. You are then experimenting with those suggestions to find what works best for Ole'. And yes....nadir would be the lowest number of the cycle.

You can't really use today's cycle to judge because he was likely clearing a bounce and he had R on board. I've found with R that, even though the R might be done in four hours, the basal insulin might be able to work a little after that. Sometimes a lot. Sometimes not. That might be why he came down and is now headed back up or it could be his snack....who knows really. You are in the data gathering process right now. So no wrongs....just experiments :-D

But, let's assume that his nadir is mid cycle until you have data that shows you differently. So I'd try to not feed at or after +6 and see what happens. I know he has just been ravenous and so you've been giving him some LC snacks to help with that. If you think he's starting to get better, you could slowly wean him off. I just boil chicken breast for Gracie but I really only use it sparingly. She doesn't get a snack every day. The other option is just freeze dried chicken breast. Sometimes, if I don't have the chicken boiled and she is telling me she is famished, I might just give her one tiny piece of freeze dried chicken breast and it does the trick.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by
He had a much larger drop today on L than he did on R.
Click to expand...

Aaahhhh.....but it is not frustrating guiding new members. :-D We were all new members once, too, and we needed the help and guidance. I, in particular, was a very "inquisitive" (read PITA) new member :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 1/17 Ole AMPS427+1 396 +2 304 +3 264 +5 194 +7 140 +9 16

Hello Rebekah - nice to see Ole back in the blues. I don't know why the original person who made the spreadsheet chose black for those high colours, but maybe because it puts the bean in a black mood to see them. I am all too familiar with the roller coaster you are on. But at the time I did lean heavily on the support of others. :YMHUG: You are not alone. You are doing everything right and it will get better.

Back when Neko had black in her SS, there were times when she would pop up 200 points from +11 to PS. :roll: She pooped out big time.

For feeding, I really should change Neko's feeding schedule now that she's on Lev, but she's so food focussed that she knows exactly when she should be fed would make us miserable if I changed it. Yes, I know who rules the house. :lol: Back on Lantus and even now, Neko gets most of her food at the beginning of the cycle, and a small snack at +9 during the AM cycle only. That +9 is sometimes her nadir on Lev and even sometimes was on Lantus. A nadir is the lowest point on the cycle. With Neko on Lantus, I observed her nadir anywhere from +3.5 to +13. Once I got Neko tested and found out she had acromegaly (in addition to IAA), her +9 snack took on a secondary purpose. It's usually a no to low carb snack. However, acrocats have a working pancreas, and sometimes food can get it working and lower the numbers. At times (not always), the snack would help bring numbers down at the end of her Lantus cycle.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole PMPS 223

Ahhh, a yellow PMPS. I'm enjoying it while I can.

I give Ole his main meals at PS, 4.5 oz LC FF. I just recently started the meat no/low carb snacks. Today, Ole has been pretty mellow all day and it's been great! A lot less stressful for him. I don't know if it was his bigger lunch or the lower numbers, but even at meal time, he wasn't manic. Now, he still had enthusiasm o' plenty, but he wasn't crawling up my pant leg and scratching at the cabinet door badger style. I've tried frozen catcicles, both cicles were gone before I left the house. I'm afraid at this point, a feeder won't work either, but perhaps when he becomes regulated. Right now, he would work that feeder until he broke into it. If he couldn't get in, he would obsessively work at it until he keeled over, exhausted. Did I mention that he figured out how to move a 15lb concrete statue that blocked the cabinet that held our trash cans (we have since put a latch on that cabinet).

Anyway, we'll see what the evening brings.

Thanks again for your help. I try my best to do what's right for Ole, and when I hear that I'm not doing things as they should be done, I get a bit flustered, especially when running on small amounts of sleep.

Alex is going to test Ole tonight so I can get some beauty zzzz's.

Hats off to happy and healthier kitties!

Rebekah
 
Re: 1/17 Ole PMPS 223

first off, you're not doing anything wrong. you are in the phase of gathering information still - we're stil trying to help you figure out what is going to work best with Ole! so people will make suggestions that might help you tweak things and see better numbers. no one is being critical! because cats are all so different in this diabetes dance, what works for one might not work for another, so you end up with a chorus of "this might work or this other thing might work and this worked for my cat . . . "

it could be that we're talking about apples and oranges, though.

when you're giving a snack post-nadir, what's the volume? a "snack" of anything should be really small so that it doesn't affect the BGs much. so it shouldn't matter too much what it is - and salmon is ok for an occasional treat, i was just saying MOST of the time you want to lean towards birds. or mousies, depending on what you have on hand. ;-) :-D :-D

in any case, Laurie and Mr Tinkles shocked me when she said that a snack for punkin should be a 1/2" x 1/2" cube of the chicken! punkin would've happily eaten the entire chicken breast! none of this little bitty food stuff for him! but i went with the teeny cubes and sometimes snuck him an extra 3, just cuz he was so pathetic and loved his food so much. :lol:

We're all volunteers here. no one minds giving advice over and over again to new people because we remember too well how overwhelming it is to begin this, and how much each of us loves our cats. It's not like there are other options out there for getting help with diabetic cats, either.

We're willing to keep helping people because others did that for us and it's worth it.

:YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/17 Ole PMPS 223 +2 273

Rebekah --

You're doing great. You have been working incredibly hard to get Ole into better numbers and that work is beginning to pay off. Hopefully, once his numbers are more consistently in a better range, he will be less frantic for food.
 
Re: 1/17 Ole PMPS 223 +2 273

Whew! Todays numbers are much easier on the eyes than yesterdays :cool:

The timing of the R may not have been ideal, however it brought some relief from yesterdays ugliness, for Ole and you.
Many of us may have done the same in your shoes. It's tricky business trying to figure out when and how to use R. Being faced with seemingly endless hours of 500s and HI readings makes it even more difficult.

You now have one more R experience to learn from under your belt, which will help you with any future decisions about when to use and when not to. It's all good. :cool:

Rebekah said:
I gave Ole a bigger +5 snack of 1/2 c FF chicken feast because I felt that he was dropping too quickly. Though is is awesome to see some blue, I would like to have him stay in the high yellows to try to minimize the inevitable bounce. Is that good logic? He can definitely handle the calories because he weighs 9.0 lbs.
Let me know your thoughts, and thanks again!
Rebekah
Click to expand...
In the context of todays circumstances it was a good strategy. It certainly did no harm :cool:

I'm glad folks familiar with BIPO stopped by . I knew there was some acronym/name for the phenomenon but as I mentioned earlier I did not experience end of cycle poop out with BK. (more like total cycle poop out). I can't speak from experience however the strategy of not feeding after nadir in an effort to maximize duration makes good sense in the face of BIPO.

BTW- I remember you mentioning Ole moving the 15 lb concrete statue - I never imagined he was only 9 lbs!!!!
 
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