1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 487

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nckitties3

nckitties3

Member Since 2013
Did anyone else have trouble with the board last night about midnight EST? I couldn't get on, kept giving an error reading and saying to contact admin.

Well, he's still running high, I'm guessing he is getting the dose it just isn't enough, I'm always scared I missed him in some way with the shot.
I will try to test him every couple hrs today and see what ya'll think I should do.

He eats nothing but low carb wet food and carb free snacks. I have been very consistent with his shots, within a couple mins.
All I can figure is he needs a higher dose. This morning's shot will be 10 at this dose. Go another day? I keep hoping to see lower numbers :sad:

EDIT: I was just in bed and it hit me, How long do you have to leave the needle in, using a Lantus pen? I insert, push the button, it clicks and I remove it, but this morning there was a tiny drop left on the needle. Am I not waiting long enough for him to get the full dose? How long should I wait before removing the needle?
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336 ????

The Board was down last night. You weren't the only one having problems!!

I don't know that anyone can answer your question since none of us use the needle tips. To be honest, that may be the problem. I don't know how accurate the pen is at small doses. How soon can you get syringes? If you're going to increase the dose, you're going to need syringes. The pens increase in full units and increases are in smaller increments than a full unit.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336 ????

Check out the sticky on how to handle Lantus, proper storage, pens vs vials, etc. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=151

Most people use the pens more like a vial than actually using it to inject the insulin. Just a thought - if you switch to syringes you might not want to increase the dose right away considering you're concerned about the pen being the issue.

If you search the forums for 'syringe' I'm sure you'll get plenty of hits on what people use. BD, Monoject and Terumo are some favorites. I am able to get them online from American Diabetes Warehouse. If you decide to go that route, use the link at the top of the page so this website gets a lil donation.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336 ????

Sorry, Debbie - I have no experience without a syringe, either. (But, after I started holding the syringe for a 10-count, I've had fewer fur shots. I don't know if there's actually a correlation or not, but I'm going to continue doing it, just in case!) Didn't I read that you ordered syringes? I don't remember where you said they were coming from, but when I order from ADW it's always less than a week delivery time.

Hershey didn't start off on Lev, so I can't help you there. But, I know it's hard to look at how well the kitties on the board seem to be doing and see your own baby running so high. Unfortunately, it takes time to figure things out and for his body to figure it out, too. And, all of our kitties have good days and not so good days. Please try not to get discouraged; you're doing great!

Hope you're well-stocked on milk and bread (because the stores will surely be out by now ;-) ) and prepared for the snow they're calling for tonight.

Have a great day -

Libby (& Hershey, too!)
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336 ????

I can go today and get syringes from Walmart.......someone tell me what to get, I do want the extra short ones, I'm afraid to use the regular length. If ya'll can let me know what I need, I'll get it. I have to go out anyway, son just called, needs a ride to pay bills.

After thinking, I think I'll wait a day or 2 and make sure I leave the needle in longer and see if it makes a difference and order them online, I'm sure they're cheaper than local.

And YES, I will try to order everything thru the site whenever possible.

I slept thru his +2, but got +4 and will get +6 before I have to leave.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 ????

called the vet, they said when it clicks, the dose is in. I guess cause I dropped him from 3 units to 1, to let him adjust to the low carb diet, it doesn't take but a second for the one unit to go in.

If that's the case, then he's just plain running high. :sad:
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 ????

Morning guys just wanted to stop by and say hi! I think everyone uses the syringes I think it is much easier since you are controlling it and knowing the needle is going in. If you are not smelling lantus on Lucian's fur or feeling a wet spot then you are probably getting it in. The syringes at Walmart are cheap. Good luck, hope Lucian's numbers come down soon, be patient!
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 ????

I haven't smelled anything, but the smell of the rice sock, pretty much, covers everything else. :lol:

I know a lot of things are color coded, are the lancets also? The ones that came with the meter are blue, the ones I have with my old meter at tan. Could the tan ones be larger? They are out of original containers, so I have no idea what size they are, but wanted to use which ever is larger since its so hard to get a test from him, been using the blue ones since I started testing him.

Every time I get an answer, I realize how much I DON'T know. :?
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX ARG!

ARGHHHH!! I poked him 6 times, both ears and got nothing!
Used the rice sock.
I am SO frustrated!
I gave up and give him his liver treat and let him go. There is only so much I can put him and me through. :sad:

I have to go out for a couple hrs, will try again later. I have yet to get a +6. :sad:
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439

At +10.5 439.........got to do something, I need input, please. I had really hoped, bringing him home from the vet, changing his diet and dropping the dose would be a good thing, now I wonder.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439

Usually the lancets that come with the meters are really fine, as they're intended for human use. Those will most likely be too thin and often go right through the ear. You will want to start out with 26 or 28 gauge - those are little bigger. Once the ears "learn to bleed" you can switch back down to a 30 gauge.

Here's a little compilation of helpful tips that Marje & Gracie put together: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=85113

Hang in there - you're doing great!
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

4 BG's is all I could get today.

He is too dang high! I'm going to increase tomorrow, he's been on this dose since last satuday night, which will be 11 times after tonight.

I'd appreciate any insight to dose increase as high as he is. Should I go 1.5 or to 2? As high as he is, should I bother with a .25 increase. Seems to me .5 is a good idea, but what do I know? Nothing.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

Ok dont panic!Try not to get frustrated, it may take a little time to find his ideal dose but you will get there! So hang in there! (hugs)

First, I dont trust the pen doses. I think since they are for humans they could be out as much as 1/2 unit. I use the pen but not the needle tips on them - I use syringes to remove the insulin from them and inject so I am hoping you will pick some up. Gives you more control especially since if you do increase its only going to be 1/4 - 1/2 unit!

If you do decide to increase ( and I hope someone responds on this to confirm), this is what the protocol says for it:

Increasing the dose:
Hold the dose for 3 - 5 days (6 - 10 consecutive cycles) if nadirs are less than 200 before increasing the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 200, but less than 300 increase the dose by 0.25 unit.
After 3 days (6 consecutive cycles)... if nadirs are greater than 300 increase the dose by 0.5 unit.
Click to expand...

Meanwhile since you already shot 1unit tonite, any chance you can get a test between +7 and +10? Be interesting to see what he is doing at night!

Lastly your signature says "FF and 9 lives Low carb >6" - I assume/hope you mean less than i.e. <6 right? You have it there as greater than 6!
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

Thanks for pointing that out, I think I was half asleep. Which seems to be most of the time any more.

I have to get syringes, had planned to today, but was tied up all afternoon and then the weather set in. Might be able to tomorrow afternoon. I just know he needs an increase. And I'm not entirely sure of the difference between the two Lantus protocols, I've read so much, it's turned my brain to oatmeal. :sad:
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

I should think you would want to increase by .25u. I know it's frustrating right now to see him so high, but you don't have a lot of data to go on at this point. Hopefully you will get some more dosing input from some more senior members soon.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

It's not that I don't want to, I want to do what's best for him. I'm a little afraid and wish I had someone to show me how. I'm scared of hurting him. I know how to draw, my ex was diabetic, but I've never shot with a syringe. I will do my best to get some tomorrow, but then what? Play it by ear I guess. Poor Lucian. I am so mad at my vet for not giving me any help or showing me even the pen, I could just spit! :-x
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

Hi Debbie! I was trying to post to you last night when the board kept going down.

A couple things I want to stress: FD is a marathon, not a sprint. It's easy to get wrapped around the numbers. There are several of us that are constantly looking at SSs and if we see a dose change that needs to be made, we suggest it.

I don't know anyone who uses pen needles on their cat. I don't know if the pen needles actually get into the subcutaneous layer of the cat so that the insulin is going into the right place. So perhaps there is an absorption issue.

Currently, yes, he looks like he needs more insulin but because we don't know how using the pen needles affects absorption, I'd make every effort to get syringes as quickly as possible.

I understand also that you are having some testing issues. First, I'd actually buy lancets that have the gauge number on them so you know exactly what you are using. As Tara said, usually the larger gauge (which have the smaller number) like 28 are better starting out. Be calm or he will sense you are nervous. Here is one of the best videos I've seen on testing and it's how we learned: Testing. You both will get this....there's a learning curve but before you know it, it will become easier. Their ears do learn to bleed. I'm glad Wendy also linked my testing and shooting tips condo.

When you get a chance, we'd really appreciate it if you could do a Profile for Lucian. It helps those of us assisting you know his history and important things that might influence our recommendations to you.

We are here to help you and believe me, we've all been in your shoes and felt your frustration. We are also here to support you :-D
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

Your vet may have left you hanging, but we won't! You can do this! Keep reading, keep posting. Maybe you could call your vet and see if they would be willing to give you a little tutorial? My vet at least showed me how to give the shots using saline. She failed on several other points, but at least I got that much. I make sure I shoot Buster while he's feeding his face. He rarely even flinches.
 
Re: 1/17 Lucian AMPS 336, +4/321 , +6/XXX, +10.5/439, PMPS 4

Debbie

Please forgive if you've covered this but is there any reason you are doing SLGS approach? You are almost testing enough to do TR and you will be able to raise the dose a little more often if he stays high. If nadirs are over 200, we increase every six cycles. You've had him at the starting dose ten cycles and, under TR, you could raise him to 1.25u tomorrow morning.

Since you are at home, you'd have more opportunity to test but all we ask is an AMPS AND PMPS plus at least a midcycle test in the morning cycle and a before bed test at night. When he starts seeing better numbers, you might need to test more but he will make progress a little faster under TR.

The only other thing is that you have to have him totally off dry and I believe I read that you do.
 
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