1/16 Blue 276 AMBG

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Patty and Blue GA & Brat

Patty and Blue GA & Brat

Member Since 2020
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-15-blue-ambg-114.241537/

Morning,

Blue is better this morning, but I had a restless night worrying about him.
I went over to him and he was still on the chair. He started meowing at
me so I got him water and he got up to drink it. I then started getting
food ready for the gang and he jumped onto the table like he was going
to then jump to the counter, but I got over in time to carry him into the
kitchen. I feel so relieved. The problem now is due to the Pedialyte his
blood sugar got bumped up. What do you all think?

He's bathing. He's so much better this morning. :)
 
Hi Patty - I've following some of your story and just here to give hugs and support. So glad to hear Blue has perked up a little bit. How are Brat and Teddy? And your knee? Hang in there :bighug: And FWIW I'm sure pedialyte spiked Blue's BG due to the sugar...but don't have any wisdom to offer there :bighug:
 
Patty and Blue said:
He's bathing. He's so much better this morning. :)
Click to expand...
I can't tell you how glad I am to read this! :cat:

((((Blue))))

Patty and Blue said:
The problem now is due to the Pedialyte his
blood sugar got bumped up. What do you all think?
Click to expand...
My suggestion would be to test again a couple of hours after Blue had the Pedialyte to see whether BG will come down and how long it takes to do so.

Will you need to give him Pedialyte regularly going forward, Patty?


Mogs
.
 
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JaxBenji said:
Hi Patty - I've following some of your story and just here to give hugs and support. So glad to hear Blue has perked up a little bit. How are Brat and Teddy? And your knee? Hang in there :bighug: And FWIW I'm sure pedialyte spiked Blue's BG due to the sugar...but don't have any wisdom to offer there :bighug:
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking in. :bighug: Blue and Brat both ate this morning. Blue is up drinking water and I'm amazed. I fully expected him to pass last night and I couldn't sleep I was so upset. I think his belly where the cancer is has decreased overnight. It's still there but much smaller today. Brat is perkier and that amazes me too. They called about Teddy this morning and he is hyperthyroid. I'm going to pick up pills today. Brat gets hospitalized on Monday morning. My knee hurts but hoping in a few weeks it will be better.
I have a lot of drama going on but thanks for your support. :)
 
Critter Mom said:
I can't tell you how glad I am to read this! :cat:

((((Blue))))


My suggestion would be to test again a couple of hours after Blue had the Pedialyte and then checking his BG again to see whether it will come down and how long it takes to do so.

Will you need to give him Pedialyte regularly going forward, Patty?


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

I haven't given him any this morning and no, he won't have to have it. Last night his temperature was so high that I gave it too him to help bring the fever down. Hopefully his temp won't spike again. I was so scared. I will check his BG again today. I have to head to pick up pills for Teddy.
I had three options...surgery to remove the thyroid, RadioCat, Science Diet thyroid food, and pills. I'm going to start with the pills. Maybe he'll be a nice cat now. He's been a meany for a while.
I'm a little miffed that I've taken the same three cats to the vet pretty consistently with the same issues.

Hope you're okay Mogs and your bug. Sorry, it's been all about me. :rolleyes:
 
The food doesn’t usually work for hyper-t plus with all yiur cats not a good idea. If the pill upsets his stomach lots use an ear gel that really works without side effects. If he’s tough to pill another reason to switch to it. Friends bought it much cheaper from online pharmacies. There’s a really good groupsio for hyper-t should you have any questions. Not my area of expertise. @Sue and Luci just did the radiation treatment for Luci. She might have tips for you as everyone starts with the pills. I wouldn’t do surgery but that’s me.

So glad Blue is doing better. Any positive changes are from the prednisolone. It really helps fight cancer. The bg is likely higher due to the pedialyte and prednisolone combo. It was a good move to give it. Kudos to you.
 
Patty and Blue said:
I had three options...surgery to remove the thyroid, RadioCat, Science Diet thyroid food, and pills. I'm going to start with the pills.
Click to expand...
Starting with the pills is the right thing to do. I recommend getting a copy of this week's labs for your records and having a look at the kidney markers. Presumably your vet will be running more bloodwork for him in a few weeks to check T4 again and the suitability of the methimazole dose but make sure they include tests for kidney function every time he gets blood work done. If the subsequent tests show that his kidneys are fine then other non-reversible treatments can be considered at that point if desired. If renal markers deteriorate, they can tweak his dose to strike a balance between thyroid and kidney function going forward. (Sorry if I'm teaching Grandma to suck eggs here. :oops: )

On hyperactivity, while we were waiting for the blood test results to come back, I actually put a call in to the vets because Lúnasa was flying around and hopping so hard off the furniture I was genuinely fearful she would injure herself. She calmed down quite quickly after she started on the meds. She was treated successfully a few months later (I-131).

Patty and Blue said:
Last night his temperature was so high that I gave [Pedialyte] to help bring the fever down.
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Inspired call, Patty. Fluids can work wonders. I'm so, so glad Blue is feeling a lot better today.

I'm also very glad to hear that Brat is perkier and eating. Would you like Marje to have a look at her lab tests for you?

Patty and Blue said:
Sorry, it's been all about me.
Click to expand...
You have nothing to apologise for, Patty. My heart goes out to you over how hard this has been for you. It's a relief to me to hear the palpable relief in your posts today. :bighug:

Still keepin' up the prayers.

:bighug:


Mogs
.
 
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PS: If the vets haven't done so already, I recommend asking them to them to do imaging of Teddy's heart as a precaution. (Cardiac issues can sometimes develop secondary to hyper-T because of the increase in metabolic rate, but prompt treatment of the thyroid imbalance counters this.)


Mogs
.
 
I had a cat I sent to RadioCat when it was the only place that did it. It worked great. Being that Teddy is 15+ I'm going to start with the pills. I didn't know about the gel but asked and they said they could order it if I couldn't pill him. My mom also had a cat that was hyperthyroid and she
fed the food. You're right Elise when you say not a good option with multiples.
I didn't run any scans on Teddy. If something was amiss wouldn't it show up in the blood work? They are going to send me the results of blood chemistry panel on Teddy.

If you know someone that can look at the blood work on Brat that would be great. Then I'll upload Teddy's. :rolleyes:

Did your Bug have hyper-T or was that from something else Mogs? How is she eating?

How are you guys and your kitties?

Elise I hope you are being careful out there in the middle of Covid City. It's scary.
Any news on Jeanne?

Blue is still doing well :cat: Brat is eating :cat: and Teddy is sleeping in my bed. :cat: All is good in my world right now. :)
 
Patty and Blue said:
RadioCat,
Click to expand...

We have just completed the I-131 procedure at RadioCat. I tried the gel in the ear routine and it seemed to cause Luci's BG's to be erratic. I couldn't really control the size of the drop of cream and it seemed that sometimes it was larger or smaller than the other. We did that for about a month - I opted to proceed with the I-131 in hopes that it would stabilize Luci's BG's - I've read many positive things about the treatment - Luci was just released on Thursday so we've not had much time to assess the results.

I hope Blue will start feeling better as you progress through the various treatments.
 
I don’t think Teddy needs any scans unless something shows up in the bloodwork. If he tolerates the pills great. If not I’d get the ear gel if he were mine. I agree with you.

As for me I’ve become a hermit. Even going to the market is scary but I still do it, every 2 weeks or more. Other than that I’m home or go for a walk. Very boring. Thankful I have the peloton and my girls for company.
 
Patty and Blue said:
Being that Teddy is 15+ I'm going to start with the pills.
Click to expand...
Obviously ECID, but I thought you might like to hear that Sirius, our next door neighbours' cat, had I-131 treatment at 17! He had his 18th birthday last year, and to date is still going strong (anti-jinx!). He's as deaf as a post and likes to talk a lot in their back garden. I can hear him even when all the doors and windows of the house I'm living in are closed.

Patty and Blue said:
Did your Bug have hyper-T or was that from something else Mogs? How is she eating?
Click to expand...
Yep. Lúnasa was a glow-in-the-dark kitty for a while. She was Dx'd with Hyper-T in early 2017. She went for radioiodine treatment a few months later when the vet was confident her kidneys were OK. The single treatment completely cured the Noodle, and no overshoot into hypothyroidism. Unfortunately during the time before it was diagnosed the increased load on the heart led to her developing HCM secondary to the thyroid disorder (apparently not that uncommon). When my mother was treated for hyperthyroidism she was put on beta blockers for the heart in addition to the thyroid meds, so similar may hold true for humans.

To the best of my knowledge you need specific blood tests for heart issues. I've read that very elevated creatinine kinase levels may point to myocarditis, I believe, but to assess whether there's any thickening of the heart wall, again to the best of my knowledge, it needs a scan of some form. My understanding is that potential heart issues are more likely to be picked up via auscultation (e.g. heart murmur, gallop rhythm) but sometimes cardiac issues may be present that don't produce symptoms detectable with a stethoscope. (Further reading here and here.)

On eating (HUGE anti-jinx) I saw a recommendation for a renal diet from another forum member in Europe, bought some to trial. She likes it! And (again with a HUGE anti-jinx) thus far it hasn't given her the runs. I give her small amounts at a time and she looks forward to me putting the bowl down. Added bonus is that it's a wet food. (I tried for a very, very long time to find a wet food that agreed with her system - to no avail.) It's mostly pork protein (the one that appears to agree with her more), and I think that might be helping matters. For a renal support food it doesn't 100% meet ideal requirements (protein spot on, slightly too high in phosphorus, sodium % leaves much to be desired) but it's way closer than the gastro kibble. Most important of all she's eating much more readily (adding another anti-jinx for good measure). She's been perkier and more active over the last 48 hours than she's been in a good while. (((Noodle)))


Mogs
.
 
Sue and Luci said:
Let me know if you'd like my unopened Rx for the gel - I bought it and never opened it.

Thanks
Click to expand...

OH thank you. I'm trying the pills first but that's my second go-to. The RadioCat worked great for my cat from my first cat family. I'm just a little overwhelmed with sick cats right now so think I'm just doing the easiest thing for me at this point. I might change my mind after a few months. My Brat is going into the hospital on Monday, Blue has lymphoma as well as his diabetes and Teddy now has hyper-T. Yikes, lots of sick cats.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I don’t think Teddy needs any scans unless something shows up in the bloodwork. If he tolerates the pills great. If not I’d get the ear gel if he were mine. I agree with you.

As for me I’ve become a hermit. Even going to the market is scary but I still do it, every 2 weeks or more. Other than that I’m home or go for a walk. Very boring. Thankful I have the peloton and my girls for company.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do hope the pills work for Teddy. At least for now.

I agree, the supermarket is scary. They ask everyone to wear masks but then you have those "special" people that think they don't need too.
I'm bored too. I have tried reading books but my attention span is too short for that. lol
 
@Marje and Gracie -

Hi Marje,

When you have a moment, I'd be grateful if you could interpret some lab results for Patty's civvie, Brat.


Brat - Potted Hx:
--------------------

* Small cat - current weight c. 4lb (was 5lb 3/11/20).

* Age: 13 years.

* History of diarrhoea and fluctuating weight.

* CURRENT CLINICAL SIGNS: Inappetence - stopped eating on 13 January. Appetite patchy for the few days beforehand.

* Has been brought to vet 3 times before for same problem.

* Being treated for IBD (not sure for how long). Meds: Prednisone (or prednisolone???), Cerenia, famotidine.

* Sub-q fluids given on Friday last (14 Jan).

* Due to be hospitalised on Monday 18 Jan (for IV fluids/other).

* LATEST: Ate a little Hill's a/d 15 Jan. Eating better today, 16 Jan, and seems brighter.

------------------------

Labs were run on 14 January: Vet opinion is liver disease (unspecified) and kidney disease. Infection present.

Lab results available in following post:

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/1-15-blue-ambg-114.241537/#post-2720163


Mogs
.
 
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Critter Mom said:
Obviously ECID, but I thought you might like to hear that Sirius, our next door neighbours' cat, had I-131 treatment at 17! He had his 18th birthday last year, and to date is still going strong (anti-jinx!). He's as deaf as a post and likes to talk a lot in their back garden. I can hear him even when all the doors and windows of the house I'm living in are closed.


Yep. Lúnasa was a glow-in-the-dark kitty for a while. She was Dx'd with Hyper-T in early 2017. She went for radioiodine treatment a few months later when the vet was confident her kidneys were OK. The single treatment completely cured the Noodle, and no overshoot into hypothyroidism. Unfortunately during the time before it was diagnosed the increased load on the heart led to her developing HCM secondary to the thyroid disorder (apparently not that uncommon). When my mother was treated for hyperthyroidism she was put on beta blockers for the heart in addition to the thyroid meds, so similar may hold true for humans.

To the best of my knowledge you need specific blood tests for heart issues. I've read that very elevated creatinine kinase levels may point to myocarditis, I believe, but to assess whether there's any thickening of the heart wall, again to the best of my knowledge, it needs a scan of some form. My understanding is that potential heart issues are more likely to be picked up via auscultation (e.g. heart murmur, gallop rhythm) but sometimes cardiac issues may be present that don't produce symptoms detectable with a stethoscope. (Further reading here and here.)

On eating (HUGE anti-jinx) I saw a recommendation for a renal diet from another forum member in Europe, bought some to trial. She likes it! And (again with a HUGE anti-jinx) thus far it hasn't given her the runs. I give her small amounts at a time and she looks forward to me putting the bowl down. Added bonus is that it's a wet food. (I tried for a very, very long time to find a wet food that agreed with her system - to no avail.) It's mostly pork protein (the one that appears to agree with her more), and I think that might be helping matters. For a renal support food it doesn't 100% meet ideal requirements (protein spot on, slightly too high in phosphorus, sodium % leaves much to be desired) but it's way closer than the gastro kibble. Most important of all she's eating much more readily (adding another anti-jinx for good measure). She's been perkier and more active over the last 48 hours than she's been in a good while. (((Noodle)))


Mogs
.
Click to expand...


Well your Noodlebug has been through it. :bighug: I will probably need to have Brat on special food for her kidneys and liver.
I'm glad your girl likes the new food. Sometimes we have to give in a little and just keep them eating.
Fingers crossed for no tummy problems. 48 hours of perky sounds really good.

I do think my "man" was older when he went to RadioCat but he developed kidney disease later. I'll keep that in mind
to ask the vet about Teddy's heart.

OH yea, I tested Blue again and his BG is 268. I'm still giving him the urgent care food along with some of the Biome
so I'm sure that's keeping him elevated. He came into the kitchen to eat twice today and that's improvement. I'd been
hand feeding him in his "hospital" area.

Well, it's football playoff time. Game on ;)
 
I'll have to check UGA to see if they offer that. I would feel better having him there.
Football is good. Another game tonight.
Blue has eaten again. Now I'm worried about poop. I gave him something for constipation yesterday and today. Nothing in days.
 
I’m so sorry Patty but we did know this was a possibility. Fighting the cancer is what matters most. I think the goal will be to keep him in decent numbers and not tight regulation. Let’s see what Wendy and Marje suggest.
How does he seem to be feeling?
 
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Yes, I hate it but you did say it could happen. I enjoyed the reprieve. Fighting the cancer is the priority.
He's doing so much better today. He still goes back to his little area he picked out by the plants. I'm
thinking because he doesn't want any cats messing with him. Worried about him not pooing. I gave
him something yesterday and today but no luck. Always something to worry about, right?
 
((((Patty)))) I have just been reading back through your threads. Oh I am so sorry you have so much on your plate at the moment with all the sick kitties. You must be feeling very overwhelmed. And being the weekend and with COVID in the mix makes it so much harder to do anything. I am glad Blue is feeling better today.
 
Patty and Blue said:
Yes, I hate it but you did say it could happen. I enjoyed the reprieve. Fighting the cancer is the priority.
He's doing so much better today. He still goes back to his little area he picked out by the plants. I'm
thinking because he doesn't want any cats messing with him. Worried about him not pooing. I gave
him something yesterday and today but no luck. Always something to worry about, right?
Click to expand...
Do you think he will be on the same dose of pred for a while?

Gracie had lymphoma and I had to start her on pred which you can see on her SS if you scroll down to Dec. I had to increase her dose by 0.25u because it caused BGs like she had never, ever seen.

I’d suggest restarting him at 0.25u but be sure you monitor closely. Gracie was only on the higher dose for a five cycles until she earned a reduction.

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this, the hyperT, and your own issues.
 
Blue has large cell lymphoma and had been in remission. The single chemo drug wasn’t helping. So he’s on CCNU and prednisolone since yesterday. Patty will need to give the dose but it’s daily. His bg spiked today. .
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Sorry, I haven't been following Blue. Can you give me the Cliff Notes highlights on what has changed lately with Blue. Food? Prednisolone added - dose?
Click to expand...

Prednisone is probably the biggest change.
Because he was so ill with a high fever after the chemo, I've been hydrating him with Pedialyte mixed with water, as well as feeding him SD Urgent Care food along with a small amount of Biome. They are not low carb. He just needed the calories.
He had the chemo on Thursday and he started the prednisone on Wednesday. Yesterday was the day he ran a high fever.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Do you think he will be on the same dose of pred for a while?

Gracie had lymphoma and I had to start her on pred which you can see on her SS if you scroll down to Dec. I had to increase her dose by 0.25u because it caused BGs like she had never, ever seen.

I’d suggest restarting him at 0.25u but be sure you monitor closely. Gracie was only on the higher dose for a five cycles until she earned a reduction.

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this, the hyperT, and your own issues.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Do you think I should start tomorrow? I’m able to monitor closely. I will be feeding him LC again. It was just an urgent situation.
I'm going to look at your SS when I get back to my computer. What treatment did you do for Lymphoma?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
((((Patty)))) I have just been reading back through your threads. Oh I am so sorry you have so much on your plate at the moment with all the sick kitties. You must be feeling very overwhelmed. And being the weekend and with COVID in the mix makes it so much harder to do anything. I am glad Blue is feeling better today.
Click to expand...

I was melting down yesterday. What a day. I thought for sure I was losing Blue last night. I started Teddy on treatment today. Brat goes in the hospital on Monday morning. I've practically forgotten about my knee. :rolleyes:
I hope things are looking good for you and yours. :bighug:
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Do you think he will be on the same dose of pred for a while?

Gracie had lymphoma and I had to start her on pred which you can see on her SS if you scroll down to Dec. I had to increase her dose by 0.25u because it caused BGs like she had never, ever seen.

I’d suggest restarting him at 0.25u but be sure you monitor closely. Gracie was only on the higher dose for a five cycles until she earned a reduction.

I’m so sorry you are dealing with this, the hyperT, and your own issues.
Click to expand...


Sorry about Gracie. What a pretty girl. I see what you are talking about after you started the prednisone.
Your SS is so organized and detailed. I'm jealous.
 
Patty and Blue said:
Thank you. Do you think I should start tomorrow? I’m able to monitor closely. I will be feeding him LC again. It was just an urgent situation.
I'm going to look at your SS when I get back to my computer. What treatment did you do for Lymphoma?
Click to expand...
Although Gracie’s SC lymphoma was very mild because we caught it early, she had a spontaneous intestinal perforation after only one chemo treatment and we had to help her cross. The pred can cause heart issues and it did in her; she developed fluid because her heart couldn’t pump efficiently so we had to wean her off the pred just a couple days after she started it.

I’m truly sorry for all on your plate.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Although Gracie’s SC lymphoma was very mild because we caught it early, she had a spontaneous intestinal perforation after only one chemo treatment and we had to help her cross. The pred can cause heart issues and it did in her; she developed fluid because her heart couldn’t pump efficiently so we had to wean her off the pred just a couple days after she started it.

I’m truly sorry for all on your plate.
Click to expand...

That must have been really hard. :bighug: Sometimes the treatments are too strong for our babies.

I'm much better today than yesterday when he had such a high fever.

I'll test Blue in the morning and start at .25 and see what happens. Thank you
 
Patty and Blue said:
That must have been really hard. :bighug: Sometimes the treatments are too strong for our babies.

I'm much better today than yesterday when he had such a high fever.

I'll test Blue in the morning and start at .25 and see what happens. Thank you
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Just be sure you can get food in him at some point before onset and as you taper the pred back, you’ll need to very likely taper the insulin back. Don’t let the insulin get ahead of you as you decrease the pred.
 
Tiffany was on 10 mg of prednisolone the rest of her life. I had another cat that was on it long term without issues. With large cell I don’t think it will be tapered much if at all.
 
Patty and Blue said:
That must have been really hard. :bighug: Sometimes the treatments are too strong for our babies.

I'm much better today than yesterday when he had such a high fever.

I'll test Blue in the morning and start at .25 and see what happens. Thank you
Click to expand...
I should clarify.....sorry, I wrote that late last night right before bed.

The chemo did not cause her any issues. The pred was responsible for her heart issue and intestinal perforation. Hindsight is always everything but we can only make the best decision at the time we are dealing with it. Fatigue adds to the difficulty of that decision.

Blue is in a different spot than Gracie as LCL is so different than SCL. QOL is really important. I thought long and hard about whether to suggest you restart insulin but what he does not need, on top of everything else, is DKA. But pred in the mix, especially when you starting weaning the dose of it back, can make insulin dosing a challenge. And, the condition itself also makes it difficult.

I don’t know if anyone told you this during the time he was coming down the dosing scale but my thought is he went into remission due to the cancer. We’ve seen that happen many times in the past. Not all cats with cancer do this but anytime we see a SS like this, we think about it.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I should clarify.....sorry, I wrote that late last night right before bed.

The chemo did not cause her any issues. The pred was responsible for her heart issue and intestinal perforation. Hindsight is always everything but we can only make the best decision at the time we are dealing with it. Fatigue adds to the difficulty of that decision.

Blue is in a different spot than Gracie as LCL is so different than SCL. QOL is really important. I thought long and hard about whether to suggest you restart insulin but what he does not need, on top of everything else, is DKA. But pred in the mix, especially when you starting weaning the dose of it back, can make insulin dosing a challenge. And, the condition itself also makes it difficult.

I don’t know if anyone told you this during the time he was coming down the dosing scale but my thought is he went into remission due to the cancer. We’ve seen that happen many times in the past. Not all cats with cancer do this but anytime we see a SS like this, we think about it.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize pred was so dangerous. I think Elise is correct when she said he will probably be on it the rest of his life. I hope he will not develop anymore issues. Poor little guy.

That's very interesting. I thought it so strange when Blue suddenly went into remission. He had been all over the place since the beginning.
No one mentioned it but I wondered what would cause him to no longer need insulin. Makes sense.
 
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