1/14 Muffin am+6 69 BW Results-need info on sam-e

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Anne&Muffin (GA)

Anne&Muffin (GA)

Member Since 2010
Yesterday: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=34331

Good Afternoon LL!

Muffin's spec fpli came back at 5.4, so we are treating p'titis again. Last time she had it, the test was 4.4. The vet offered prednisone, which we used last time, but after discussing it, we decided to try just the denosyl first to see if she improves. However, I just went and got a hard copy of the results, and now that I see she is definitely in the pancreatitis level, maybe I should re-think this and go with prednisone right off the bat? I admit I'm a little afraid of pred because of bg levels and since she's not on insulin, I hate to drive those up. What do you guys think?

She also wants Muffin to be on Sam-E regularly from here on out, to hopefully avoid future flare ups. So I have some questions to those of you who use this. Where do you get it? How do you know how much to give? Does it taste? Horrible? Can it be mixed in food and if so, do most of your kitties notice it? Muffin is very very picky and I don't want to turn her off to Wellness Chicken, as it's the only thing she'll consistently eat.

Lastly, are you using it for CP? If so, does it seem to help?

Any and all thoughts / suggestions are welcome.

The rest of her bloodwork looks pretty good. She is high on a few things:
Cholesterol: 220 (ref: 82-218)
A/G Ratio: 1.1 (ref: .4-.8)
RBC: 10.39 (ref: 6.0 - 10.0)

Everything else is in normal range.
 
I hadn't read about SamE for pancreatitis. When we were researching this for Maverick the cornerstones were fluids, pain meds (bupe) through the flareup and assist feeding to ensure a pancreatic cat did not get FHL from not eating enough. I didn't think pred was prescribed unless there was like an IBD or other component.
 
Sorry I'm missing it but do they think Muffin has a chronic form of pancreatitis, or IBD or liver issues? I know these are often seen together.
 
Hi Anne
Sorry to hear about Muffin
I have used Denysol and SamE for Max but for his liver issues, not pancreatitis.
I used it in pill form, they are not too bad to give.

It is very good support for the liver but not sure of for anything else.
 
If I've never linked this for you before, this is a post Jojo put together on pancreatitis. You'll notice that she mentions using a steroid as well as other meds for support depending on what the need is.

I'm also attaching a link to a thread from the old board on the use of SAM-e/denosyl. It seems to be used more for liver support than p'titis.
 
They do suspect she has chronic pancreatitis, and that this is probably what "caused" her diabetes, so to speak. When they gave me the Denosyl for the last attack, they did tell me it was mainly a liver supplement, but that it was helpful for the pancreas too, possibly because they are right next to each other. They do not suspect IBD or liver issues of any kind, but again said it can't hurt to supplement the liver, as it's right next to the pancreas. I don't believe they commonly prescribe Denosyl for p'titis in a non-diabetic cat, but were / are hoping to keep the steriods to a minimum.

I went back and looked over Muffin's SS during her last attack, and noticed that her numbers came down to normal before she was even done with the pred course, I'm assuming when the other infections (UTI, FLUTD) cleared up, so it doesn't appear that the pred had much impact on her bg. In light of this, I've decided to go ahead with the pred, rather than take the chance that the denosyl doesn't work as well and inadvertently keep her feeling poorly longer.

I still would appreciate thoughts on sam-e tho. Even if it IS a liver supplement, it's not going to hurt her to take it, right?
 
Anne&Muffin said:
However, I just went and got a hard copy of the results, and now that I see she is definitely in the pancreatitis level, maybe I should re-think this and go with prednisone right off the bat? I admit I'm a little afraid of pred because of bg levels and since she's not on insulin, I hate to drive those up. What do you guys think?
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it's your call. discuss your concerns with vet and see what s/he says. the endocrinologist at TAMU suggested pred, but i chose to try other options first, with Meowzi's vet's blessing. if the other options didn't work, i would have turned to pred.

She also wants Muffin to be on Sam-E regularly from here on out, to hopefully avoid future flare ups. So I have some questions to those of you who use this. Where do you get it?
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online. i do px comparisons among a few sites - think amazon was one. i can look up links on other pewter if you want; am on laptop now. iirc, chriscleo may be trying to sell what's left of cleo's stash too? did your vet say denosyl or denamarin?

How do you know how much to give? Does it taste? Horrible? Can it be mixed in food and if so, do most of your kitties notice it? Muffin is very very picky and I don't want to turn her off to Wellness Chicken, as it's the only thing she'll consistently eat.
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we've switched to denamarin, but i think it was one denosyl tablet when we were giving that. i think they're both dosed by weight; one tablet minimum, possibly more for a larger cat, i don't remember. but the instructinos are in the box. oh, and you want the formulation for cats and small dogs, not the ones for medium or large dogs.

intact, it doesn't taste like anything i.e. if you lick it, it's fine. but if you bite down on it, it tastes HORRIBLE. don't ask how i know :mrgreen: (i had to rinse my mouth out several times! blech!) we warn meowzi it tastes horrible and not to chew on it, then give it to her hidden in a whisker lickins soft treat. she's very good about not chewing on it as long as we remind her and tell her why.

it's best given on an empty stomach for absorption reasons, but i don't follow that to the letter. i give her a couple of treats before and especially after, to make sure it does go down all the way. here's how cheryl/winnie gave it viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8312&p=83072&hilit=+glass#p83072 you should chase it with water to make sure it goes down all the way (or with treats, but i don't think that's recommended - we do it anyway).

Lastly, are you using it for CP? If so, does it seem to help?
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strangely, no, we're not using it for CP, but for her very bad arthritis. that it may help keep CP at bay is an additional bonus for us. antioxidant therapy using SAM-e, milk thistle, vits C and E and omega-3 fatty acids is recognized and is mentioned in Idexx Labs' Treatment Recommendations for Pancreatitis. and of course, in jojo's post (which btw came about a year before the date on Idexx's paper :smile: )
 
Muffin eating on her own...sounds good Anne! So, Sam-E is good for arthritis? hummm...I didn't know that. I just ordered cosequin for ralph for that. Wonder which one is better, the Sam-E or the cosequin?
 
Cosequin for sure. SamE is a liver support supplement first and foremost. It improves survivability in cats dealing with liver issues such as FHL. I would try the cosequin and dasuquin first. Also there is an injection that you can get at the vets office (five weekly shots and a monthly shot) which may also help. (Adequan I believe - spelling).
 
Hi Anne - can't help with any of this, as we have yet to deal with any of it. Mannie and I send healing vines and hope that Muffin feels better soon.

Muffin????? You sick? The KTSS can come and help if you wants... we make great soup.... see you later maybe? ~~ Mannie
 
Anne: sorry I missed your post yesterday with the updates on Muffin and I'm sorry she has pancreatitis again. Bummer!!! But you are so great at exploring options and Sienne and WCF gave great advice. I know you will make the best decision for her and I hope she will feel better and start eating again. (((Anne)))...you and Muffin are in our thoughts and we send healing vines.
 
Thanks again, everyone, for your input - I read the links and further discussed the situation with BOTH of Muffin's Drs. I decided to start the prednisone course tonight. I gave 1/4 tab cypro late this afternoon and tried to give bupe, most of which ended up on the floor ohmygod_smile The cypro is definitely not having as much effect as it usually does, but she has eaten maybe 1/4 can Wellness Chicken and quite a bit of rotisserie chicken since I gave it. I'm not sure how much bupe I got in her, so will not give another dose until morning. I will check her bg daily while she is on the pred, and her vet said if it starts rising, we can discontinue it.

So far I've not been able to find sam-e in anything but pill form, and I'm not comfortable shoving that big pill down her throat every day for the rest of her life. We were hoping to find a capsule form, or just a powder that hopefully she would eat in her food, so it wouldn't have to be a "medication session" every day. Dr did say it could be compounded into a liquid, but wouldn't last as long that way and therefore be more expensive, so I'm still trying to figure that part of it out.

Plus side is Muffin seems much less miserable than she did during the last flare, probably because she has nothing else going on with it this time. She doesn't hide in the closets, she's with me for a large part of the day, only retreated to her room for a couple of hours today. She is meatloafing more today, tho, so I will continue giving bupe. I picked up more of that along with the pred.
 
Green Healing Vines & prayers for Muffin's full rcovery from this flare!! BTW Moonie & Copper are on dasuquin now, & have been on Cosequin first..It does help with the arthritis..
Sending Big Hugs to you & Muffin--Get better sweetie!!
 
Speedy healing vibes coming your way for Muffin. I'm glad she's eating okay! I hope you can find a way to get the sam-e 'hidden' in her diet.
 
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