1/14 Klinger's curve day (we use Lev)

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Marcy & Klinger (GA)

Marcy & Klinger (GA)

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Hi everyone,

We did a curve today on Klinger...the results aren't pretty:
AMPS 387 2.0u
+1 503
+2 500
+3 462
+4 436
+5 432
+6 431
+7 352
+8 428
+9 461
+10 465
+11
PMPS

I'll be increasing his dose to 2.5 u's tonight.
He's eating, peeing, pooping, playing, preening, seems happy overall. Negative for ketones...
Thanks,
Marcy & Klinger
 
My questions thus far are this:

What is this about "yo-yo'ing" Is that all within the same hour? I'm not sure I would have thought more than meter error and maybe just some food or something going on especially at those high numbers?

On 1/8 you talk about a "bounce" from reaching 300s. Maybe I'm out of place, but I don't think a cat is going to "bounce" just because you had deltas of 36% or that you reached 300s [in a fairly smooth matter no less].

Were you waiting for curve day to change the 2u dose?

Any other general impressions to share in your journey? How's the advice you are getting?

Good to hear no keytones - at least you are not having to deal with that on top. We're rooting for you guys here in PZI.
 
What is this about "yo-yo'ing" Is that all within the same hour? I'm not sure I would have thought more than meter error and maybe just some food or something going on especially at those high numbers?
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From what I can recall, that was his 4th day on Lev and he was looking at me funny and I half-heartedly wondered if he were rebounding (you all know I always think he's rebounding ohmygod_smile because I want him to be a low dose kitty face)

On 1/8 you talk about a "bounce" from reaching 300s. Maybe I'm out of place, but I don't think a cat is going to "bounce" just because you had deltas of 37% or that you reached 300s [in a fairly smooth matter no less].
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This comment was based on how Klinger reacted to prozinc. He was a really excellent bouncer...but apparently from looking at other posts it's not fair to judge data from one insulin against another type of insulin. :-|

I was waiting for curve day to determine the increase in dose. This is because my vet would like us to hold doses a week and do a curve (since Lev is new for both of us, I really want to start slow and go slow.) With Lev you really need to base increases or decreases on the nadir and not amps and pmps and with my work schedule, curve day is the only time when I can get tests in to determine his nadir.

Honestly, I haven't been posting much because I just don't have a lot to say at this point. If we were following the protocol, we would be increasing more frequently and for that to happen I would need to get tests in at +3, +6, and +9. I just can't do it with my work schedule. The advice when I post has been great - very experienced users and with a lot of great advice, questions, and support. I've been learning alot from Lori's posts on health as well.
Thanks for the support Gator. :-D
 
Oh Marcy- I feel your pain! I want a low-dose kitty, too. Actually I'd prefer if charlie was a civie or at least otj. This constant increasing with no end in sight is tiring. I wish Klinger's numbers looked better, but you'll get there. Just think of how much less insulin it looks like you're giving him. That's one perk of a more concentrated insulin- 2.5u of lev is so much less liquid to shoot in than 2.5u of pz. I can always feel the space under charlie's skin fill up with insulin on 6u pz- it's kinda gross. You're doing great and you're very brave for starting over again to try to do what is best for Klinger!
 
mars72 said:
With Lev you really need to base increases or decreases on the nadir and not amps and pmps.
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Like how? Based on a fixed nadir of like 150 or more of the delta or change one is getting from PS to nadir?

I've been keeping up a little with Lori. And her nadir was like 140-ish all the way from like 400s. So she shoots 2u again and the next cycle the nadir is supposed to be 140? That seems a little insane to me, but I know my world is not so large in the insulin worlds :smile: [I'm trying to broaden my perspectives].
 
So, if you look at Klinger's curve, it's pretty flat except for his nadir which was only 30 points lower than his AMPS and his high numbers all day which indicates not enough insulin. If Klinger's numbers were going from 500 to 100 and either staying there or zooming back up to 500 at PMPS it indicates that it may be too much insulin and to decrease the dose...from what I can gleen.

Lev is actually a pretty flat insulin as far as a curve goes- where prozinc should have a u curve.

Claudia - I know you feel my pain :YMHUG: and that is a great perspective (he is receiving less liquid insulin) for me to keep in mind. I wish for all the kitties to be OTJ too.
 
mars72 said:
So, if you look at Klinger's curve, it's pretty flat except for his nadir which was only 30 points lower than his AMPS and his high numbers all day which indicates not enough insulin. If Klinger's numbers were going from 500 to 100 and either staying there or zooming back up to 500 at PMPS it indicates that it may be too much insulin and to decrease the dose...from what I can gleen.

Lev is actually a pretty flat insulin as far as a curve goes- where prozinc should have a u curve.
Click to expand...
This is basically what I told Lori even though I know nothing of Lev. So I'm glad I wasn't too far off track. Basically large deltas with Lev are not ideal and would seem from my know-nothing perspective to indicate too much insulin.

I'm learning :smile: .

So full curve with Lev is every hour?
 
Hi Marcy,
a few clarifications, i'm shooting 1u. i also get a long flat day after the fall. we stay relatively flat and nadir around +12.
i have finally given up the fight and am reducing tom's dose to .75 twice a day.
i am tired of figuring ANYTHING out at this point.
tom is responding very very well to the lev. it is i that has the problem.
i know not what i am doing so now i am taking instruction...i am the proverbial 'newbie' and it sucks!
and i now have a fresh respect and empathy for all my dear sweet newbie's here and yet to come.
Lori
Marcy god be with you on this lev journey...it is deeply confusing for me.
 
Lori,
LOL Did you tell the Lantus Lovers that I said to try .75u for now and you are following Gator's instructions! :lol: Wow, if your topic did not light up before... WOOO DOGGIE! :lol: Hey if .75 doesn't work then I get to be a convenient scape goat. :mrgreen:
 
The convo earlier today...?? I said, "Lori, try .75u and stick with it for a bit." It's probably just the guy in me trying to take credit for something I probably had little to do with in reality... ;-)
 
I've been trying to follow this a bit too (and Lori's new insulin journey) and it's wickedly confusing to me. I don't know how you guys do it!
 
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