1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91 +5 85 PMPS 240

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SabrinaFaire

SabrinaFaire

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

Internet at home wasn't working this morning so I couldn't post for advice. I went with a .75u shot.

My cold seems to be doing a bit better and I found a 10% off coupon to Petco so I'm going to stop on the way home and see about an auto feeder because SOMEONE waking me up at 4AM this morning because they wanted food wasn't exactly ideal.
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91

He may have woken you up because he was HUNGRY. Spitzer does that when the food has run out ... and the insulin hasn't.

Many cats go lower over night; you must make sure there is enough food for him to eat, so he won't hypo while you sleep. Alternatively, you may give a slightly higher carb dinner to help prevent that.

You've gotten fairly low preshot numbers - we generally recommend you do NOT shoot below 200 when you don't have a lot of data on hand to know how the cat will respond. This is for your cat's safety.

Please review this STICKY: LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SHOOTING & HANDLING LOW NUMBERS and maybe print it out.
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91

OK first, yeah I know he was hungry and I was joking around about it, I didn't mean to sound like I was ignoring my cat's needs, though I can see how it would sound like that.

Second, I'm getting A LOT of very conflicting advice about what dose to give him. Don't shoot under 200, keep it at the same dose for at least 3 days to see how he responds, don't change is dose so frequently. I realize folks are trying to help, but a big fat W.T.F.???????
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91

Okay let me see if I can straighten some of this out for you, because it really isn't as conflicting as it may sound. When you don't have a lot of testing data for your cat's safety we say don't shoot below 200, because at this point you don't know how low he is going to go by nadir (around +6) yet. Especially if you aren't going to be around to monitor him all day until he starts rising again. Like this morning that is a normal non-diabetic number, but we don't know if it was a rising number or not. If it was a still falling number he could go much lower yet.

However, if you still have a diabetic number at preshots then holding a dose for several days to see how he settles into it is what you want. Plus what I think makes things even more confusing when you first start out is there are two schools of thought..Tight Regulation which is Shoot low to stay low, and the rest of us that is Start Low, Go Slow. In my humble opinion the "Shoot low to stay low" is a more advanced technique that needs a couple of things to be truly safe (The TR folks will probably disagree with this) but it needs lots of testing data so you know how your cat is going to respond to a given dose, as well as the ability to monitor when shooting low so you can step in if they start going too low...Because cats being cats can and do throw curve balls. But again that is my own opinion and my own comfort level when having a cat on insulin.

One of the things we usually tell those starting out is if you get a low preshot number is to stall the shot without feeding for 30 minutes then retest to see if they have come up enough to shoot. Which is one of the reasons even if I don't always put in Musette's spreadsheet, I test her 30 minutes ahead of her shot time then again at her shot time to make sure she is rising, but that is also because after 6 months of testing her I know she will spike on food, and that it takes her at least 2 hours before onset of her shot. So if she is rising between 6:30am & 7am when is her normal shot time, then I know that she will continue to rise for the next 2 hours as well as feeding her when she gets her shot will cause her to spike. So even if she presents a lower than normal preshot I can shoot lower now because I know how long she will continue to rise and that she will spike on food. I also am home with her all day so I can monitor her closely on those days what I do shoot low, and even after 6 months of testing her and testing her often she has done stuff to me like start out at her am preshot at 250+ and then in 4 hours drop to the 30s for no known reason. It is just a Musette thing. My other advantage about being at home with her all day is if she starts going really high after a low number that looks like I need to skip a shot I can shoot when she gets to a shootable number and just adjust my schedule to fit with her new 12/12 pattern.

The reason we say not to adjust the dose back and forth all the time is because both Lantus and Levermir work off a shed or depot unlike Prozinc which when it runs out after 12 hours it is done. So with the two Ls if you adjust all the time you are constantly filling and depleting the shed. I know in the beginning it all seems very confusing and complicated, but it does get easier as you gather data and learn how your cat uses Lantus.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91

OK yes, the Shoot Low/Stay Low Start Low/Go Slow thing is confusing me. Isn't not shooting adjusting a dose though? So, if I test at 6:30 and it's low like it was, 91, I hold off on feeding and shooting and retry at 7 to see if it comes up? Then what? I feel like I need a flow chart.
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91 +5 85

Ok at +5 he was down to 85. I still have some dry food I haven't returned, I'm going to leave some of that for him this afternoon.
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91 +5 85

Well that is why the stall if you can, you always want to be shooting a rising number. So like this morning if you tested and got a 97 at 6:30am stalled until 7am and got say a 150. First you know he is rising, second you know it will take a couple hours before the Lantus kicks in from the new shot, and that food will also bring him up some. So you would be safe in assuming that he is going to continue to rise for the next couple hours so then you would go ahead and shoot your normal dose into the 150.

And skipping a shot is an adjustment of sorts but especially if you aren't going to be home to keep an eye on him letting that shed drain some and him to go a little higher by the pm shot is safer than shooting into alow number and not be there to catch it if he starts heading for hypo numbers.

Personally I'm not a fan of the shooting low to stay low, but that is just me, it makes me nervous, since I lost my very first diabetic Muse because she went hypo overnight and unlike Musette, Muse didn't sleep with us, so I wasn't aware of her being in trouble until it was too late and she was gone by the time I found her the next morning. Again just my personal comfort level when it comes to giving insulin, to this day my cut off point with Musette is anything below 100 I either stall until she is above 100, or skip altogether if she isn't raising fast enough.

But even with all the testing I do with Musette she still pulls strange patterns on me, like this morning her first test was 356, her second was 422, okay so went with her normal dose...2 hours later she had dropped to 267...or 156 pts :shock: Then again Musette is also a very different little cat, which is why I have to use an atypical dosing protocol with her too. But she also was adopted as a diabetic, after going fairly untreated for a long time (at least 3 months) so she still bounces a lot when she gets into lower numbers. Her body is just having a hard time relearning what is normal again, so her liver panics a lot.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91

SabrinaFaire said:
OK first, yeah I know he was hungry and I was joking around about it, I didn't mean to sound like I was ignoring my cat's needs, though I can see how it would sound like that.

Second, I'm getting A LOT of very conflicting advice about what dose to give him. Don't shoot under 200, keep it at the same dose for at least 3 days to see how he responds, don't change is dose so frequently. I realize folks are trying to help, but a big fat W.T.F.???????
Click to expand...

What I wrote was based on the fact that there isn't much data (yet) on Hobbs and you are new to Lantus.

The point I wanted you to catch is that his being hungry enough to wake you in the middle of a night might have been because he was heading for hypo territory. Its really important that you remember that. Low glucose levels kill fast; high glucose levels kill slowly. I don't want you to have a dead cat by morning, OK?

1) Lantus works slowly, and builds up slowly. That is why folks have said to stick with the dose for 3-5 days. It can take that long for a dose change to stabilize.

2) Exception: if the preshot test is low, by following the instructions for a low preshot, you may give a 'token' dose, or reduced dose to avoid hypo. The low at which you make this decision depends on your data and experience with your cat.
.....a) below 200 if you are new,
.....b) below 150 if you've got lots of data
.....c) lower if you have tons of data and really know your cat
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91 +5 85

BJ, thank you (again) for looking out for me and my cat. I'm just frustrated. I feel like every time I learn something there's two more somethings about this I realize I didn't know. I'm on another message board where we have a smilie called willynilly. Kind of how I feel right now! LOL This cold and my arm/neck pain don't help. I do appreciate your help though. Sorry for lashing out.
 
Re: 1/12 Hobbs AMPS 91 +5 85

Also, I had a meeting with my manager this afternoon. They are supposed to be starting a work from home pilot "soon" and I asked to be put on the list of pilot testers. No idea when that would be though.
 
Well I went to Petco and they didn't have the feeder I wanted so I'm going to order it online. I'll get up and check on him until I can get it. He was at 240 tonight and had eaten most of the dry I left out for him when I came home at lunch. I gave him the DM since I still have it, I didn't want to shoot his numbers up too much, but they went up anyway I guess.
 
The other trick overnight until the feeder gets here, is to freeze his wet food..then put it down for him frozen so he can nibble on it as it thaws. I do that for all of my furkids at night since I have 3 siamese alarm clooks when they are hungry...and they aren't the diabetics.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
MommaOfMuse said:
The other trick overnight until the feeder gets here, is to freeze his wet food..then put it down for him frozen so he can nibble on it as it thaws. I do that for all of my furkids at night since I have 3 siamese alarm clooks when they are hungry...and they aren't the diabetics.

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
Click to expand...

Hmm they eat it like that? Hobbs needs to have his food warmed up or he won't touch it. (He's so spoiled LOL) I guess if he got hungry enough he might eat anything. :smile:
 
lol with 13 in the furry family nobody gets too spoiled around here ...but I'm not telling them that...they all think they are horribly spoiled rotten...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
 
Oh yeah ok with 13 it's eat or starve. Hobbs is an only child with two doting parents, one of whom fawns over him like a fool.
 
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