1/11 Zoozey AMPS 125 +11 48 PMPS 48 Help with dosing?

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emchic

emchic

Member Since 2012
Yesterday's condo: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=86691

Zoozey PMPS is really low tonight. I read him 15-20 minutes after I fed him and he had gone up to 65. I went ahead and gave him his shot, but I reduced the dose to 1 unit. I'm supposed to go to a friend's birthday party 30 minutes ago, but I guess I'm going to be late because I need to be here in case he goes hypo. Can someone post a link about lantus and dosing? He's got to have a shot twice a day, but I don't think it's a good idea to give him the 1.5 units the vet prescribed if his PMPS is 48.
 
since that is the lowest you've ever shot, please get a +1. It doesn't matter that you reduced the dose.

Is this right?

AMPS was at 7:50am
the 48 was at what time?

Then you fed, and then measured the 65 after 20 minutes?
 
The 48 was at 6:25 pm and 6:40pm. I went ahead and fed him to get his bg to come up a bit. I got the 65 at 7:00pm, which was about 15-20 minutes after he finished eating. I gave him his shot at 7:15pm and he was at 72 at 7:30pm.
Zoozey is more important that a bday party no matter how much I want to go, so of course I'll stay home for now and get a +1 if that's what I should do.
 
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
+11.25 shot 1u

I'm glad you're staying home tonight. Do you have plenty of test strips on hand, and high carb food with gravy?
 
ETA: I' deleting info since Libby got the details covered.

You might want to take a look at this information on handling low pre-shot numbers.

You really want to test, feed, and shoot at your PMPS time and do all of this within the span of a few minutes. It probably takes me 5 min. to test, feed, and shoot. Gabby gets her shot when her face is in her food bowl.

I'd take a look at this post on handling low numbers so you know what you'll need to do.
 
So that's how I record it. Thanks Libby. I have plenty of test strips, but no high carb food with gravy, but it's easy enough to run to the store pretty quick and get some. What kind of food should I get?
 
I would wait until after your next test to go to the store. Let's see where she is and make a plan from there.

Most people use Fancy Feast or Friskies varieties with gravy, like the Gravy Lovers or Grilled varieties with gravy. Fancy Feast is good because you don't need much at a time, so with the small cans you don't waste much.
 
FYI, I can see that you have shot 50s before, and you might be wondering why this is different.

One, we don't know how low she went when you shot 50s.

Second, Lantus has a cumulative nature so tonight's cycle is heavily influenced by the dose given this morning (so tonight's cycle will act more like a cycle of 1.5u than a cycle of 1u).

Third, giving a shot early can act like a dose increase. It's a technique people use sometimes when they want to try to bring the numbers down. Not so good when the numbers are already plenty low!

Under these circumstances, we would have suggested that you wait until at least +12 to shoot.

So, some vigilance is needed tonight until we are sure Zoozey is heading up significantly.
 
I have shot in the 50s before, and I shouldn't have. Shame on me. And after reading the how to handle low ps readings, I realize I shouldn't have fed him.
His +1 is 53 and Zoozey is a bit mad at me because I've checked his bg so many times in the last hour and a half. But he's wanting attention and he's playing, so it would appear he's feeling okay.
 
Is it okay to go to the store now and get him some food? Or should I wait a bit longer and get +1.5 reading?
 
how far away is the store?

How about feeding him 2 tsp of his regular food, with a couple of drops of honey or syrup on it? Then test at +1.5.

RECAP:

AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
 
The store is just a couple of miles away. And he must still be hungry because I hear him in the kitchen licking the food bowls right now. I'd be gone 20-25 minutes. I do have some honey on hand though.
 
let's go ahead and feed with some syrup, test, and then if he's still surfing you can go to the store. If not, you might have to make do with syrup.
 
I just gave him 1/4 can of Wellness turkey pate with two drops of honey. Of course, the other two came in to the kitchen as soon as I opened the can, so I had to give them some food too. :mrgreen: His +1/5 is in 15 minutes.
 
His +1.5 was 54. So not out of the 50s yet. Do I need to give him more food with honey or should I wait and see what his +2 reading is?
 
we don't want him to get too full, in case we have to keep doing this for a while. Does he like the syrup enough to lick some off your fingers? Or feed just a tiny amount of food with a couple more drops of syrup.

The food probably hasn't really kicked in yet, so hopefully the next test will show a rise. 15 minutes?
 
Zoozey is not a licker. I'll have to give him honey with food. Should I give him more or wait until after the +2? His +2 reading will be in a little over 20 minutes.
 
I would give food/syrup now. Next test will be in 15 minutes.

Feed first, then come back here because I have some other questions.
 
how far away is your ER vet?

I'm not trying to panic you, but they can manage this much more easily than you can at home. If Zoozey hasn't bumped up a lot at +2, then I would prefer that you take him in. We don't have enough data to know when Zoozey's Lantus nadir is, but in most cats it is around +6. That would mean at least 4 more hours of testing and giving syrup every 15 minutes. Maybe more than that.
 
He's getting full. He ate a bit, so he got some honey. I really can't afford to take him to the vet right now because of a recent large paycut, so I'm going to have to keep on checking him myself. He's acting like he feels pretty good. Right now he's looking out of a window, something he had no interest in when he was sick with/recovering from his dka. His +2 is 50.
Recap:
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+1.5~ 54
+2 ~ 50
 
the thing is that in most cats Lantus starts to work at about +2. That means he is at 50 now and the Lantus probably hasn't even kicked in yet.

So, working with what we have - you'll need to get his numbers bumped up without him getting too full.

If you dump all the food out of the can, there should be some gravy-like goo on the bottom and sides of the can. Empty a bunch of cans and get enough goo that you can mix honey in. We can use that for a little while. I would give him some more honey now.

Do you have a syringe so you can syringe honey into him if needed?
 
Yes, I do have a syringe to use if necessary. I'm going to try and give him some more honey now.
 
I'm really tired! Of course the ONE NIGHT I need to have insomnia, I feel like I could sleep for hours and hours. But I've got a case of diet coke in the fridge, and it will see me through.
 
I know the feeling, but hopefully you won't need the whole case! Hang in there.

It should be almost +2.5 now, so I'll be watching for that test.
 
I am! I started playing Angry Birds to stay awake and I got really involved. The lantus has kicked in, so his +3 is was really low, at 33. He's full and doesn't want to eat any more, so I put a drop of honey on my finger and wiped my finger on his tongue (he was thrilled).
 
I'm going to go ahead and run to the store before it gets too terribly late. He's all played out for now, so he's curled up asleep on my bed. He's not acting unusally, so I think he'll be okay for 20 minutes.
 
I would give him more than a drop at this point. Rub some honey on his gums and test in 15 minutes. Or do you have any other kind of syrup? Maybe some other kind would work faster for him - karo, corn syrup? If you can syringe some syrup in that might help. Giving a drop or two at a time isn't helping.

You're sure you can't do ER?
 
AMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+1.5~ 54
+2 ~ 50
+3 ~ 33
 
Unfortunately, I didn't see your posts until after I got home from the store. He's starting to come up. His +3.5 is 49. I left some food with honey on the bed right next to him before I left and it was gone when I got home. HopefuIly Zoozey was the one that ate it. I'm guessing he probably was since he's starting to come up. I've got four cans of Fancy Feast gravy lover's now. I don't have any karo or corn syrup, but I do have a bottle of Mrs. Buttersworth in addition to the honey. Do I need to give him any more honey or hc food if his numbers are starting to rise? His +4 is in fifteen minutes at 11:15 pm. Also, will he bounce tomorrow because I've given him some extra food and honey?

So here's a recap:
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+2~ 50
+3 ~33
+3.5~49
 
Why don't you give him some of the gravy from the gravy lovers? About a teaspoon to start, with a drop of honey. Most cats looooooooove it!

FYI, even though he has come up a bit, he hasn't hit his nadir yet so he might continue to bobble up and down.

Let's worry about tomorrow in a little bit.
 
AMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+1.5~ 54
+2 ~ 50
+3 ~ 33
+3.5 ~ 49
 
I'm sure he will love it. All three of them are thrilled to be eating solely canned food now (I fed them dry food before I knew any better) I'll try giving him some gravy with honey and check him when it's time for his +4. I also bought a real coke and some candy for me. Hopefully the sugar rush will keep me awake for a bit longer.
 
Yeah, he was pretty happy about it. I gave him two spoonfuls of food with some honey. He's chowing down right now.
 
when Lucy used to run low, I would give her the gravy off the top of the can, and give the other cats the meaty part. They all thought they were getting special treats. Lucky for me, Lucy always gobbled her gravy down so fast that the boys never noticed that her treat was even better than theirs. :lol:

Another thing I did when I started getting tired was to set my cell phone alarm right away after every test, so it would go off at the time I wanted to test next. It came in handy when I dozed off (which was a lot).
 
He's still coming up. His +4 is 54. Do I need to keep testing him until his nadir?
So here's a recap:
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+2~ 50
+3 ~33
+3.5~49
+4~54
 
sorry, but I'd like to see at least one more test before giving you a break. He has had a LOT of carbs, which don't seem to have bumped him up very much but I still get concerned about what will happen if the carbs start to wear off. We don't really know when Zoozey's nadir is, so it's necessary to be cautious. How about +4.5?
 
Thanks to a real coke and some candy, I'm on my second wind. I can go a while longer. And in the end, I'll stay up as long as I need to in order to make sure he's okay. His +4.5 is in 15 minutes. I'll keep you posted. I'll go ahead and give him some more food and honey now.
 
So far so good. His +4.5 is 74. Should I be concerned that he's come up 20 in the last half hour?

So here's a recap:
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u

+1 ~ 53
+2~ 50
+3 ~33
+3.5~49
+4~ 54
+4.5~ 74
 
no, that's good, it means maybe some of that food and sugar is finally kicking in. We're trying to get him up high enough that there's room in case he decides to drop again before morning. How about getting a +5, then we can see whether it is ok to sleep?
 
Just wanted to say that you're doing great, with great advice from Libby!
At some point, I think we all hit a panic with low numbers and learn how to manage them in a 'trial by fire' situation. ;-)

Its useful to put the numbers in the subject of your opening post - they won't all fit but its good for advisors to quickly see where things are.
Also, if an emergency, please use the 911 icon - that pretty much guarantees speedy help.

Hope Zoozey surfs safe for the rest of the night.
 
ok, good. Hopefully +5 will be higher!

I want to post my suggestions for tomorrow before we both start getting too sleepy. Obviously Zoozey needs a dose reduction from the 1.5 units, since that left him too low at PMPS tonight. Normally I would suggest reducing by 0.25 units, but since you had to fight so hard to keep his numbers up tonight I think 1 unit might be better. What do you think? Also, especially for tomorrow morning's dose, if he is under about 70 then post for advice (or even if he is higher than that, if you aren't sure what to do).

Then tomorrow, make sure you restock your test strips if needed, because you used a lot tonight. Make sure you have enough high carb food, and maybe pick up some Karo syrup since the honey didn't work very quickly for him.

Then promise you'll try to get more spot checks so you'll catch if he is dropping low on his new dose. Zoozey might be in a stage where his pancreas is healing, and often when they hit this point where the numbers are ALL blue and green, they start needing dose reductions in quick succession.
 
And he's back in blue! His +5 is 111. I laid in a big stock of test strips last month and I should be getting my DCIN meter with even more test strips in the mail in the next week or so. Right now I've got 100 test strips left (plus the few that are left in my current container) and more lancets than you could shake a stick at.
I've been pondering a dose reduction for a while now because I have been getting so many green numbers lately. I'll give him 1u shot tomorrow morning and see how he does (and that is so much easier to measure than 1. 25 anyway!). I have plans tomorrow evening, but I'll be home all day tomorrow, so I can do a bunch of spot checks and then check him again as soon as I get home. Hopefully he won't be under 70. Lately his AMPS has been higher than his PMPS, so I'm hoping to get a good reading in the morning. I think I'm going to try and do another curve next weekend because I'm curious about his daytime cycle, and I wonder if it will be similar to the curve I did last month.

Thanks for staying up with me Libby and walking me through this. I really really appreciate the help. You are totally my person of the week! :thumbup
So here's a recap:
AMPS ~ 125 (shot 1.5u)
+10.5 ~ 48 fed
+11 ~ 65
PMPS +11.25 shot 1u
+1 ~ 53
+2~ 50
+3 ~33
+3.5~49
+4~ 54
+4.5~ 74
+5~ 111
 
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