1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140;+4.5 109;+6 136 lab results

Status
Not open for further replies.

Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Yesterday
Zener is in classic rainbow slide this morning. He started with stinky pinky yesterday evening, perhaps the high before the break? :cool:

Our vet replied to answer many questions for us and help us plan a strategy. We will pick up the lab values later today and post them in Zener's condo tonight for your wonderful insights. For now, we are scheduling an ultrasound and urine culture to rule out kidney infection, which our vet does not think is the likely cause but wants to see how his kidneys look. She says kidneys with infection and kidneys with chronic disease look quite different, so it will be good to get a baseline too. All his electrolytes on his blood work were normal. She feels it is very early kidney dysfunction. She did not think prescription kidney diet was necessary yet and is aware of how much trouble we've had with his foods, GI motility and so on. We are also going to do some more research on lower phosphorus foods and see if we can add any of that into his very picky diet. We've also started adding more water into his fuds and are already seeing a decrease in the amount he is drinking.

@Anne & Muffin - thanks for stopping by yesterday, we posted his report yesterday evening and more to come later today.

@Michelle & Dusty - well, the lab reports were not what we hoped for, but there is always something worse. ;-) Hope your semester prep is smooth as butter.

@Ann & Tess - thank you so very much for all the information on CKD. We ordered the book you suggested. We have been reading Tanya's website and are overwhelmed as you stated. We are plugging along and somewhat relieved things are in such an early stage so we don't feel like we have to make decisions immediately! We will get the rest of his lab values from the vet today and post later. Our vet did not suggest meds, prescription diet or subQ fluids at this time. And we are starting to investigate some lower phosphorus foods you have on Tess's SS and on Tanya's site. Waiting to find about out his phosphorus levels. And anything you can send us will be very helpful! :YMHUG:

@Anne & Maggie - thank you for all your insights from Ms Mags, we are still overwhelmed and in full research mode, our reaction to an new issue. ;-) We are scheduling an ultrasound. At the present, our vet doesn't think the prescription kidney diet is essential and we are investigating some non-prescription foods. With Zener's appy issues, our vet is more concerned that he eat regularly, but we may start trying to sneak in a few lower phosphorus foods to see what happens. SubQ fluids don't look necessary yet, but we are increasing the water in his foods. And we have him on Zantac regularly, also methylcobaline (B-12).

@Sienne - electrolytes were normal, we are getting the rest of his lab work this afternoon and will post it. Our vet says it is very early and keeping him hydrated is important at this stage. We've added quite a bit more water to his foods in the last 24 hours and his water drinking dropped from 1 cup every 24 hours to 1/3. Thank you so much for all the information, we forwarded it to our vet. She recommended not having the renal collection because of it being technically difficult and instead to try the urine culture and ultrasound to view the kidneys and check for possible infection. So, we are in the process of scheduling that.

@Melissa & Mr T - thanks for your support, we are digging to China to get to the bottom of what's going on! ;-)

@Amy - thanks for your kind words about our powers of observation. We are still working on Zener's advice "pet more, worry less." :razz:

@Roni & Moonie - thank you for the hugs, we sure needed them!

@Alana - the lab work seems to indicate kidneys and not just his diabetes. We noticed an increase in drinking even with his numbers doing so well and that's what got us back to the vet.

@Wendy & Neko - you are so right, knowledge is important AND we have Sienne!

@Carla - we are in full research mode and devising a plan, we wish we didn't have to, but we are grateful for all the expert help here on everything!

@Ella & Rusty - we are keeping on keeping on and coming up with our plan. In the meantime, Zener is relaxing in the lagoon. :mrgreen:

@Dyanna - Zener is feeling very pleased to be in the same company as JD! :-D

That's where we are this morning, starting to emerge from the fog a little. @-) Full bloodwork posted later today. Thank you LL! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84 more vet

Paws crossed for some good results on the ultrasound and the urine culture. Hope you get to the bottom of what is going on! Nice slide into the green lagoon today! Glad you are seeing a decrease in the drinking. Have a great day!
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84 more vet

I think an ultrasound is an excellent idea. I'm so glad you're scheduling one. Classic rainbow slide for sure today, glad Zener's relaxing at the lagoon. I also think it's a good idea to try some lower phos foods - it can't hurt, right? I hope you can find something Z-man will eat.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84 more vet

Ultrasound scheduled for Wednesday afternoon! We haven't told Zener about the belly shaving yet.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 more vet

I was thinking the same thing about his poor shaved tummy! :lol: :lol: Nice slide today, Z-man doesn't know anything is different!

Here is the info I collected on Calcitriol, it is really for hyperparathyroid and you need to have that checked w/ an PTH test. Otherwise it can cause imbalances in other levels like calcium, which is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Apparently Tanya's site has been changed on this. There is a little more info here than is on the site now.
 

Attachments

Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 more vet

Thank you so much Tess! More reading for beans. And you are so right - Zener doesn't know anything has changed.

Pet more, worry less. - Zener
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 more vet

LOVE Zener's quote (Pet more, worry less) :lol:

Sending good thoughts and hoping he has no idea about the shaved belly that's coming, and loves belly rubs even more afterwards!

Nice green surf today Zener! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 more vet

Great update on Zener and so glad you got answers answered and have a plan. It is all so overwhelming at first, but with you both as Zener's beans, he is the luckiest kitty. It is caught so early, too. I'm glad Zener is getting the U/S, as it's very helpful. I have a pic of Mags with her shaved belly in case Zener wants to see how it will look after the shave. :lol: Have a wonderful adternoon. I was just out and about, and it is so cold and windy. We had some rain, not much.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 more vet

I'm glad you got the u/s scheduled. Hopefully it will give you the information you need to come up with a treatment plan. Nice greens Zener. :mrgreen: Keep surfing.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener AMPS 230;+2 148;+3 69;+4 84;~6 70 lab results

Thank you for all the visits and words of support. You know how much they mean to us. :-D :-D I got Zener's complete lab result and scanned it to pdf. There are a few other values that are out of whack but phosphorus is normal. Crazy cat. :lol: :lol:
Liz

ETA: got a better scan
 

Attachments

Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

It's dark, cold (32 F) and windy (25 mph) and Zener insists on a picnic. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Liz
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

Looks like the Z-man heard about the ultrasound! Gotta get them picnics in while he still has tummy fur! :lol: :lol: :lol: confused_cat
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

Hope the U/S will be more defining for you all..You are two of the best beans I have known here in LL and you together with Zener will manage any health problems so well, as you have all along..He had some nice numbers today & it's true they dont know there is anything wrong with them--for them it's just another day!
Sending Healing Vines & comforting Hugs to you all, and of course our love--Zen Man is a trooper!
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

Hey Z Man, I see a nice warm sweater in your future--a green one.
Your pal,
Rusty


Hi Anne & Liz,

We hope that the U/S will provide some answers. Thinking good thoughts for Zener this evening. And wishing all of you a good evening.

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

Hi Anne and Liz

Sorry I didn't post yesterday with some thoughts about Zeners tests but you got a lot of great input.

First, I agree that I would have the U/s done because a kidney infection could cause the numbers although a kidney infection would not typically cause his USG to be so low. Did he get any fluids in the day before his tests?

His USG is pretty low....even lower than Gus's and with Gus's, he's getting 150mls LRS Sid so his USG would show a more dilute urine. A low USG is usually the first sign of decreasing kidney function.

As Ann said, BUN can be elevated due to diet or even if he was a little dehydrated at the time the test was done. If his USG was normal, I wouldn't even get concerned about the BUN. I do think it is too soon to start squids....usually they are started when the creat gets to about 3.5. The best source of fluids for a kitty is water ...what they drinks and what goes in their food and its usually better for them to compensate that way for as long as they can before you start fluids.

Some use Azodyl for the BUN. It's a probiotic. It never worked on any of our cats. Also, Ann is right that calcitriol is used for PTH. I had Teddi checked for it and it wasn't an issue. I never have had Gus checked for it because he doesn't have the symptoms or signs and also managing calcitriol is a pain. Unless his phosphorus and or calcium levels are way up, I wouldn't worry about that now.

I think it's a great idea to try and get him on low phosphorus foods even if his P levels are normal. Also, keep an eye on his potassium, HCT or PCV, and HGB. I believe you are giving him methylB-12? If so, I would also add a multiB and the one most commonly used is Jarrows B Right. The combo of the two really helps to keep them from becoming anemic which is a huge issue. Dose is usually 1/10th capsule daily. We put 1/2 the B12 daily dose and one half the B Right daily dose in a #3 gel cap and give it to Gus bid. Anemia is another one of those things that can be very difficult to manage if he gets too low so preventative is the way to go.

Let me know if there is any way I can help. Hugs. And remember that cats can stay stable with CKD a very long time if you address the issues like phosphorus, hydration, etc. early on.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120 lab results

Marje and Gracie said:
Hi Anne and Liz

Sorry I didn't post yesterday with some thoughts about Zeners tests but you got a lot of great input.

First, I agree that I would have the U/s done because a kidney infection could cause the numbers although a kidney infection would not typically cause his USG to be so low. Did he get any fluids in the day before his tests?

No apologies necessary, we knew you and Mike were in recovery mode and paws crossed you are seeing more good days than TB infirmary days. ;-) He did not get any fluids the day before his tests, as in subQ fluids, but he was drinking water, about 1cup that day, plus what we put on his foods.


Marje and Gracie said:
His USG is pretty low....even lower than Gus's and with Gus's, he's getting 150mls LRS Sid so his USG would show a more dilute urine. A low USG is usually the first sign of decreasing kidney function.

Decreasing kidney function is our vet's opinion also.

Marje and Gracie said:
As Ann said, BUN can be elevated due to diet or even if he was a little dehydrated at the time the test was done. If his USG was normal, I wouldn't even get concerned about the BUN. I do think it is too soon to start squids....usually they are started when the creat gets to about 3.5. The best source of fluids for a kitty is water ...what they drinks and what goes in their food and its usually better for them to compensate that way for as long as they can before you start fluids.
We are adding more water to his foods now, and have the past couple of days. His drinking has decreased from 1 cup to 1/3 cup per 24 hours. We will be diligent to postpone fluids as long as possible!

Marje and Gracie said:
Some use Azodyl for the BUN. It's a probiotic. It never worked on any of our cats. Also, Ann is right that calcitriol is used for PTH. I had Teddi checked for it and it wasn't an issue. I never have had Gus checked for it because he doesn't have the symptoms or signs and also managing calcitriol is a pain. Unless his phosphorus and or calcium levels are way up, I wouldn't worry about that now.
His phosphorus and calcium levels were in the low end of the normal range. So we won't worry about this for now.

Marje and Gracie said:
I think it's a great idea to try and get him on low phosphorus foods even if his P levels are normal. Also, keep an eye on his potassium, HCT or PCV, and HGB. I believe you are giving him methylB-12? If so, I would also add a multiB and the one most commonly used is Jarrows B Right. The combo of the two really helps to keep them from becoming anemic which is a huge issue. Dose is usually 1/10th capsule daily. We put 1/2 the B12 daily dose and one half the B Right daily dose in a #3 gel cap and give it to Gus bid. Anemia is another one of those things that can be very difficult to manage if he gets too low so preventative is the way to go.
We will explore some low phosphorus foods and see if there is any that he will eat. HCT and HGB were on the very lowest edge of being high, but I don't really know what that means, can you explain that to us? I don't know what PCV is and do not see it in his labs. We have him on methylB-12 and have for a long time. We will get the Jarrows B Right and start with that after we get the U/S done. We believe in prevention!


Marje and Gracie said:
Let me know if there is any way I can help. Hugs. And remember that cats can stay stable with CKD a very long time if you address the issues like phosphorus, hydration, etc. early on.
We will let you know what help we need. Everyone is being so very helpful here, we were wigging out when we got the results and all the support has helped us calm a little. Thank you for letting us know cats can stay stable with CKD. We want our guy around for a long time. We were so discouraged to see him doing so well with his diabetes and then up comes another thing to have to deal with, it was/is a little overwhelming.

We have the U/S scheduled for Wednesday afternoon and they will start a urine culture at the same time, just to rule out any infection as best they can. We are reading a little bit everyday about CKD and with school starting back, we are so grateful we have a little time to do some research and make plans on how we want to proceed. Right now, adding the multi B vitamin, adding water to his fuds, exploring lower phosphorus foods and getting the U/S is our plan.

Thanks to everyone for visiting today and sending us such wonderful support. We are so very grateful. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140 lab results

Do you have Zener's lab values from previous checkups? It can be helpful to set them up on a SS to see how things are changing.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140 lab results

Ann & Tess said:
Do you have Zener's lab values from previous checkups? It can be helpful to set them up on a SS to see how things are changing.

Yes we do have them around here somewhere. Liz, the engineer, can set up a spreadsheet. Great suggestion, thank you Ann!
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140 lab results

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: Hugs for each of you and Zener. It sounds like you have a good plan going forward and have caught things early.

Nice numbers for Zener today, please pass on some extra pets from us. And a few extra rubs of that belly fur while he has it. :lol:
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140 lab results

Ann's suggestion is a great one. I have a SS for Gus and can compare his values and quickly see changes.

PCV is packed cell volume and HCT is hematocrit. HGB is hemoglobin. Seems that some labs use PCV, some use HCT. They indicate anemia so the lower they get, the more you get concerned about anemia. I'm not sure what the lower limit for PCV is but because it seems that your lab uses HCT, then I'll address that. I believe anemia is indicated by an HCT below (I think) 28%... Or maybe 25%... Don't remember.

Typically, an HCT below 20% is when you need to start giving some type of erythropoiesis stimulating agent like Procrit or Aranasp. Unfortunately, some of these can cause antibody reactions...Aranasp appears to have less of an issue with this but any ESA has to be monitored closely. Anemia can kill faster than CKD so preventing it and keeping them stable above 20% is important.

One thing about a c&s....it can come back negative and the kitty can still have a kidney infection. That is very typical for Gus.

I know Zener has the best beans ever and you'll stay on top of it all. While the dx can seem overwhelming, like FD, there's alot you can do that is not too difficult that will help him stay stable for a long time.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140;+4.5 109 lab results

Normal range for PCV is, if I remember correctly, 28-40%. At 20% they look at doing a blood transfusion. Just went thru all that with Kibby.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140;+4.5 109 lab results

Thanks to Ann & Tess, Marje, Roni, Ella, Wendy, carla, macal, Anne & Muffin, Michelle & Scrabble and everyone else who's name I am forgetting at the moment, for all your kind words and confidence in us to give Zener the best care possible. You help keep us keeping on. :YMHUG:

@Marje - Zener's HCT is ~47% right now, so we will keep an eye out for anemia, but maybe not worry about that just yet. How do you know when Gus has a kidney infection since C & S can be negative, and when he has an infection, what meds to use? Thanks for your support and all the kind words about our beanship! :YMHUG:

Ah, and one more question - how often do you have labs run on your kitties to monitor their kidneys?

The big guy's numbers have been good today and his water consumption less, we are adding more water to his foods, so that may be part of it. We are getting a snow storm at the moment - big winds, cold temps and blowing snow, almost midwestern style. Snow had blown all over the back porch, including on Zener's pad where he sits by his little picnic table. He still insisted on having a very quick picnic outside at +4.5. He is so very brave! cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140;+4.5 109 lab results

I would expect for Zeners HCT to be good with his other levels where they are. :-D

Gus has had a kidney infection twice and both times the urine culture was negative but the U/S showed renal pelvis dilation. As your vet said, the kidneys in kidney infection present differently than CKD. If he does have pyelonephritis, the best treatment is 4-6 weeks on baytril.

I'd discuss frequency of testing with your vet. When the HCT is like Gus's, you don't want to be testing alot because it removes more red blood cell. We typically test every three months. I would think you could make some modifications, test in 3-4 months and if you see improvements, see what your vet thinks about waiting six months.
 
Re: 1/10 Zener PMPS 120;+2.5 140;+4.5 109 lab results

Liz, I have Tess's labs SS as a tab on her BG SS. You can download it and save yourself a lot of typing for the tests and ranges (if your lab uses Idexx the ranges should be the same.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top