1/1/23 New Member Feeding Issues

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Jcat_J

Jcat_J

Member Since 2023
Hi All
I'm a new member so I'll give you a bit of info:
Took my baby boy "Nicky" to the vet 12/28/22 because he was drinking, peeing a lot more then normal.
Vet did blood work and on 12/29/22 results came back High Glucose (448), High Cholesterol (222), Low Platelet Count (122), High Eosinophils (1,050). High Protein in urine (+1), High Glucose-strip (+3).
12/30/22 I picked up Prozinc Insulin, U-40 needles, 3 cans DM food and was trained on giving insulin shots.
I also picked up 4 cans of Blue Wilderness 2 chicken and 2 turkey (I think they have a somewhat low carb)
Started shots 12/31/22 1 unit twice a day.
Also Nicky is 5 years old and 11.5 lbs (found out he has bad teeth). He's white with orange markings.
I don't have a lot of funds left after all that so I haven't got a test meter yet ... but will if things go well.

Now for me ... I'm a 69 year old retired women and I've had a lot of cats in my life time. Several have had Kidney disease so I've given fluids and dealt with feeding issues and a lot of other things but never had a kitty with Diabetes so I know I'm going to need a lot of help.

I'm currently having a issue with the feeding schedule. Nicky is a VERY picky eater (he doesn't even like people food like chicken or tuna) and of course the food he was eating ("Nulo" dry Turkey) is very high in carbs. Another note I have another kitty "Sweetie" which adds to the feeding issue.
My vet wants me to feed 2 times per day before the shots. Nicky is an all day snacker. I've had to force feed Nicky before all the shots so far. This is not going to work long term for several reasons: I would have to force feed a min. of 2 cans of food per day to maintain a min. Kcal level for him. I do understand that Nicky must have food in his system before the shot but ...

Here's my question 1. Any ideas on food he may eat. 2. Can I alter this feeding schedule safely because there is no way Nicky will eat a whole can of food in setting.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Jcat
 
Yes! It’s very old fashioned to advise to feed a cat only twice a day. It’s more of a dog thing and we hear that a lot here when vets are more used to treating dogs than cats. Cats are grazers, like you said it yourself, and it’s also easier on their pancreas to eat smaller meals throughout the day. Most of use feed the 2 larger meals around shot times and then smaller meals or treats throughout the day. I’m addition, diabetic cats who are not regulated yet can’t process the nutrients in food well so they tend to eat and still be hungry. They also need to eat more so they don’t lose a ton of weight.

the DM food you got from the vet is also too high in carbs. We recommend foods that are 10% or lower and honestly, nothing special about the prescription food. Most of us here feed fancy feast or Friskies. If you’re looking for better quality brands, Weruva, Tiki and Ziwipak are good ones but also more expensive. Here’s a food chart that lists almost every cat food brand and the carb content. If money is a concern, I’d suggest in the future you buy the insulin and syringes online. As far as meters, you don’t need to spend a lot of money on a pet meter. Most of us use Walmart’s ReliOn, which is a human meters you can buy for $10 and it’s just as accurate. The test strips are also a lot more affordable and that’s where most of your money goes because you use them up pretty fast. You can get 100 ReliOn test strips for about $17.99 as opposed to $1 each when your using a pet meter
 
Welcome to FDMB!

Actually, the canned DM is low in carbs (6%). However, for what you're paying for a "prescription" food, the quality of DM is less than desirable. You actually have a great deal of choices when it comes to food. This is a link to a chart that was put together by a vet, Lisa Pierson, DVM who has an interest in feline nutrition. There is a column that includes information on carbohydrates. We consider low carb and any food that is less than 10% carbohydrate. Most of the members here feed their cats in the 5% range. The less pricey options include Fancy Feast and Friskies that are the pate style varieties. (I just realize I duplicated what Ale wrote. Sorry!) There's also no reason to feed your cats different food. There is nothing special in DM that makes it a prescription. In fact, the pet food manufacturers lost a class action suit because they were calling foods "prescription" and there was nothing medically salient in the food. It was a way to charge more.

There are many people here whose cats are used to grazing. It's fine for a diabetic cat to graze. There is really no need to change the way you're feeding your cat. With canned food, you may want to add some water to the food to keep it from drying out. There are only a scant few dry foods that are low in carbs. If costs are an issue, the low carb dry foods tend to be expensive.

Other than the vet suggesting feedng only twice a day, the good news is your vet started Nicky on a good insulin for cats and at a reasonable dose of Prozinc. This is a link to more information on Prozinc. The sticky notes at the top of the page have a great deal of information on this insulin, dosing, and other information you are likely to find valuable.

We are strong advocates for home testing. It is the only way to ensure your cat is in safe blood glucose numbers. It also allows you to know if you have to intervene because your kitty is dropping into numbers that are too low. It also empowers you to make changes in doses so you don't have to keep running to the vet -- another costly endeavor.

This is a link to a post on helping us to help you. It provides some basic information on setting up your signature and a spreadsheet once you're able to home test.

Please let us know how we can help. The members here are very generous with their time and their knowledge.
 
Thanks so much for the reply.
I go to a Cats only clinic which is good but over the years I haven't always agreed with some of the vets that work there. And I don't on this food issue. Prozinc should work for 12 hours so they should be able to eat during that time. As I said (I think) I do understand about eating before giving the shot and would force feed like 2-3oz. before if he had not eaten. But I would prefer he ate the balance on his own. There is no way he is every going to eat a 5.5oz can in 1hour. Today I force feed 1/2 before shot and put the balance out for him to eat thru the day but he hasn't touched it yet. So if he hasn't eaten it before his next shot I'll be force feeding a whole can before shot. He's only been on shots for 1 day so I'm hoping he'll start feeling better and start feeding better.

I got Blue wilderness chicken and turkey at petsmart from what I found they should be at around 3 carbs and around 140 Kcal. Which I don't think is to bad to start of with. His dry food which is mostly what he ate was very high in carbs so Blue is better then that.
Having dealt with Kidney kitties in the past I learned to get scripts so I could go someplace cheaper so I got those from my vet just need to find a place now.
Once i found out nicky had diabetes I spent all day on the computer reading and I found just what you said about the meter and talked to my vet about it and of course she said they didn't work for cats. And of course places like walmart and petsmart don't sell the cat meter. I may pickup the ReliOn meter just for peace of mind and my own tracking. If I use the same meter all the time I'll still see the changes. I'll take a look at that food chart the you sent it should come in handy.
Thanks so much for your reply it's early days yet for nicky and I so I'm sure this forum and you all will be really helpful.
 
Def get the ReliOn. It’s the meter I used for Minnie for over 2 years and it worked for us perfectly as it has for so many other members. Question about the force feeding, is he not eating at all? Prozync and Lantus are long lasting insulins and don’t hit as hard as let’s say Vetsulin. What that means is that they start working at about 2 hours in, or after you give the shot, so as long as he’s eating enough before the shot and after, I wouldn’t think you need to force feed. Only if he’s not eating at all. Minnie would sometimes eat a little bit and I’d still give her the shot because I knew I had about 2 hours to keep trying to get her to eat more @Sienne and Gabby (GA) what do you think? I just hate the thought of a cat being force fed if it’s not absolutely necessary
 
I tend to think force feeding (or more gently called "assist feeding) is only useful with a sick cat. If Nicky is used to grazing, there's a very good chance that if her numbers start to drop, she will head to her food bowl. If you think in human terms, someone who's prone to a drop in blood glucose, recognizes what's going on and grabs something to eat. Cats are not that different. My kitty would sit and stare at me to let me know her numbers were dropping and she needed food!

As for meters, I would ask your vet what meter was used before the AlphaTrack (or other pet-specific meter) was widely available. Unless she thinks that people were running to the vet to have a blood panel done using a serum chemistry analyzer, even vet offices were using human meters. The original 2009 publication on the Tight Regulation Protocol for Lantus, indicated that human meters were being used as were pet-specific meters. If a human meter "didn't work," the article would never have been published in a highly competitive, peer-reviewed veterinary journal. I also suspect that your vet is unaware of what the cost is for purchasing strips for an AlphaTrack (and they just raised their prices) vs a human meter. Like Ale, I used a human meter for 6.5 years. One other factor is that all of our dosing materials are based on the use of a human meter. This board has been around for 25+ years. Everyone was using a human meter!
 
That’s a very good point Sienne. They do let you know! Minnie would do the same. She’d come into the kitchen and start meowing asking for food outside of her regular feeding times. I’d grab the meter and test so I’d know what to feed her and pretty much every time she was in a lower range.
 
Will this is day 3 and I picked up a ReliOn classic meter and some test strips today. If my vet doesn’t want to use the numbers that’s fine I can still use them.

On the feeding … Yes I hate having to assist feed … it’s really hard for both of us but Nicky had to start the Prozinc insulin to get better and he had to have food in his stomach so that the shot didn’t send him into Hypoglycemia. (if I’m understanding things correctly if not please correct me). After that I put the food down so he had access to it all day but he wasn’t eating anything.

OK so this morning I tried a different food ProPlan DM and he ate pretty good … so it looks like he just didn’t like the food he was getting or maybe the insulin is starting to have an effect. This is all so very new still. Anyway I picked up a few more cans of the ProPlan DM today. I also picked up some cans of food that were on the list you sent (just in case he stops eating the ProPlan DM).

I’ll do some reading up on the meter and testing and if I have any questions I’ll drop another line.

One day at a time I guess. Thanks so much
 
I just want to say again that you have 2 hours to get him eating. Prozync and Lantus take that long to start acting and actually bringing the numbers down so if he eats even a little before the shot and you know he’ll eat more and more in the next 2 hours, no need to force feed. In other words, if he eats a tiny bit at 7am and you give him his shot, you have until 9am to make sure he’s eaten more or enough before you need to force feed. Does that make sense? I went through this with Minnie a lot because she’d be nauseated due to her IBD. I’d give her the anti nausea med and still shoot her because within 30 minutes or so the med would work and she’d start eating again about an hour after the shot.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
tend to think force feeding (or more gently called "assist feeding) is only useful with a sick cat.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "sick"? I syringe fed my civi Moxie for over 5 years. I tried many different foods both canned, dehydrated and dry but to no avail. I guess she would be classified as sick since she would not eat much by herself. She did have health problems throughout her life. I have known her throughout her life and took her home to first foster her and her two brothers when she was about 6 weeks old but I kept her since she was not thriving. I have assisted other cats for various times from weeks to months when they would not eat for any known reason.
 
@Larry and Kitties - I was generalizing. Most cats do not require assist feeding under what might be considered "normal" circumstances. Clearly, your cat was an exception. A cat that is unwell, has a dental issue, has a food aversion, etc. may require assist feeding. At least based on my experience here, cats that were needing to be assist fed had something medically going on and did not want to eat on their own.

In the case with Nicky, who has a history of eating/grazing enough calories versus the vet's instructions for the caregiver to feed her cat twice a day, my point was that trying to force Nicky to eat twice a day was unnecessary. Nicky is eating. He's just not conforming to the vet's schedule.
 
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