09/25/2019 Mowgli AMPS 301 *pics* +11 257 +12 297

[AmandaE]

09/24/2019

Same old same for us today! Mowgli took a dive last night and had a nice surf in the lagoon... as such he is taking a rest way up in the trees.

He was ‘relaxing’ in a funny way last night on the stairs, his back end completely laid down and his front legs standing on the stairs below! What a weirdo!!

It looks like he’s getting ready to go, but he’s just relaxing.

Nyx was being a soft cutie last night too:

What a sweetie baby

Hope everyone’s having a great day

 

[Tomlin]

Adorable!! I will have to send you a picture of our black cat family because they look like they are related to your cats. The eyes are so similar. George, the only short haired one, looks just like Mowgs....ears and all. Kramer, has the same eyes as Nyx.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Same old same for us today!

There is a note in Remarks that says you fed Friskies leftovers at AMPS +6. Usually you give him FF in the AM, right?
Is it very different from Friskies carb-wise?

Does it mean he ate somewhat higher carbs, higher than his PM cycle meal of FF?

I was wondering if feeding the same 5-6% Friskies in both cycles (regardless of AMPS being Pink or Yellow) might bring about lower AM preshots. It should sound weird to you, I know. But there are cats who do better with slightly elevayed level of carbs. What do you think?

 

[AmandaE]

Adorable!! I will have to send you a picture of our black cat family because they look like they are related to your cats. The eyes are so similar. George, the only short haired one, looks just like Mowgs....ears and all. Kramer, has the same eyes as Nyx.

I would LOVE that!! black cats for life!!

 

[Tomlin]

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my black cats! I have 3. They do have a tiny spot of white fur on their chest & then lower abdomen. One even has what looks like someone took a crimping iron (80s reference )to his longer fur. One is a bulky, long haired meatball, the other is a skinny, panther looking noodle man with short hair & big ears & their little sister is long haired. She looks tiny (length/height) but she feels like a brick & can eat more than either one of her brothers.

 

[AmandaE]

There is a note in Remarks that says you fed Friskies leftovers at AMPS +6. Usually you give him FF in the AM, right?
Is it very different from Friskies carb-wise?

Does it mean he ate somewhat higher carbs, higher than his PM cycle meal of FF?

I was wondering if feeding the same 5-6% Friskies in both cycles (regardless of AMPS being Pink or Yellow) might bring about lower AM preshots. It should sound weird to you, I know. But there are cats who do better with slightly elevayed level of carbs. What do you think?

That’s right! Everything you said above is accurate. I am wobbling a little bit in consistency, but I am aiming to start giving him a higher % LC in the evening to try and limit the dives at night. I have a few different kinds of FF that vary in carb % but generally they are lower than Friskies.

I haven’t considered Friskies at both meals, I’m open minded but I wouldn’t have thought about feeding Higher % LC at both meals, the kitties get tired of Friskies sooner than FF as well.

I could definitely try it. What % would you recommend? I can mark all my cans with the % carbs so I can keep everything organized in my head and apply the same carb % whether it is Friskies or FF.

 

[AmandaE]

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my black cats! I have 3. They do have a tiny spot of white fur on their chest & then lower abdomen. One even has what looks like someone took a crimping iron (80s reference )to his longer fur. One is a bulky, long haired meatball, the other is a skinny, panther looking noodle man with short hair & big ears & their little sister is long haired. She looks tiny (length/height) but she feels like a brick & can eat more than either one of her brothers.

Love the stylish crimped fur!! It’s so convenient that Mowgli has big ears. More surface area for poking

Your kitties sound like so much fun!!

 

[Tomlin]

SO funny about the ears! Isn't that the truth? I did not even think about the surface area .

 

[Tomlin]

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

I could definitely try it. What % would you recommend? I can mark all my cans with the % carbs so I can keep everything organized in my head and apply the same carb % whether it is Friskies or FF.

5% Friskies Turkey and Giblets, Liver and Chicken, Mixed Grill (lowest P) is what I used, or
Weruva Fowl Ball 6% - shredded white turkey meat in dense fatty sauce, P180/100Kcal, $$$.

For how l long is the best I do not know , honestly, go by the ear.

I tried to switch Ducia to home made only, no carbs and had high numbers. Quit after only 4 cycles so DH is nagging me to try again BC I did not give enough time the last time around. Maybe he is right but I was looking at high Blue and Yellow and threw in the white towel. See how you feel about the whole thing and decide then.

Another weird thing is that often if I feed the +9 mini-meal of 8% carbs I get lower preshots, lower than when I use meat only home snacks or even a mix home made 0% + 10% commercial, "supposed" to =5% total. Odd. It may not be so with M but easy to try. Small 1.5 - 2 teaspoons high-ish 6%-8% range around AMPS +9.

IDK if it's going to work for Mowgli at all.
Given that he regularly hits good nadir and then bounces in the AM suggests that the dose itself either good or very close to be so. Sometimes odd little things like feeding a cat who already high at PS extra carbs (v. zero or the lowest %) do turn things around.

 

[Sue and Luci]

View attachment 48028

Gorgeous ball of black fluff there TSP!! You need to use that as your avatar

 

[Sue and Luci]

09/24/2019

Same old same for us today! Mowgli took a dive last night and had a nice surf in the lagoon... as such he is taking a rest way up in the trees.

He was ‘relaxing’ in a funny way last night on the stairs, his back end completely laid down and his front legs standing on the stairs below! What a weirdo!!
View attachment 48025
It looks like he’s getting ready to go, but he’s just relaxing.

Nyx was being a soft cutie last night too:
View attachment 48026
What a sweetie baby

Hope everyone’s having a great day

Gorgeous kitties! Love the 'relaxed' position of Mowgli!

Did the IT folks open your access to FDMB?

 

[Sue and Luci]

Beautiful numbers last night btw! I've tried feeding all sorts of various carbs - Luci loves her high diving board as you can see from her SS. It's always been her personal 'style'...she has food down all the time and I've tried all sorts of various feeding things to 'catch' her early - to no avail. I add a tsp of 13-15% medium carb to a teaspoon or so of LC...seems to be the deterrent she needs to avoid the sharks... Mowgli might also be hitting some lagoon time during the daytime...but without the tests while you're at work it's hard to say...

I hope you have a great day and those pesky IT people opened your access to the forum.

 

[AmandaE]

View attachment 48028

BAAYYYYBEEEEE!!! So so cuuute!!! Just love that sweet face <3<3

 

[carfurby (GA)]

Nice surfing last night. Love all the black cat pictures.

 

[AmandaE]

@Tanya and Ducia anything is worth a shot honestly. At the very least I could rule it out as an option if it doesn’t work. I would really like to figure out how to get him finally regulated so I think anything that has worked for other members is worth a shot!

It’s a bit frustrating because I think you’re right. We are very close to his ideal dose. We dance between 0.62-1u so I’m itching to dial it in finally. Who knows higher mornings and lower nights might always be his thing

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

anything is worth a shot honestly. At the very least I could rule it out as an option if it doesn’t work

Who knows higher mornings and lower nights might always be his thing

that is what used to think about Ducia a year or so ago.
Things change, and all including stubborn high AMPS shall pass, they do give in the latest.
Until they do we will just carry on the business as usual.
BTW, you may not need to increase the dose due to increased carbs. The SS will tell.
You might see, and I hope so, that the numbers get better with carbs level maintained evenly at 5 or 6 at the same or not much increased dose.

 

[Tomlin]

Gorgeous ball of black fluff there TSP!! You need to use that as your avatar

That is actually T's brother Kramer! T is a ragdoll & Kramer's little sister, Eve, is T's cat spouse essentially! Never seen anything like it--too sweet.

Amanda,

I am not sure if any of this info will help you, but my hope is it helps with understanding what else could be going on/in play sort of speak with respect to food/BG/insulin.

I know everyone knows what happens with BG & carbs is all dependent on the cat & largely it depends on how well a cat metabolizes or does not metabolize them. This includes the effects of any possible underlying issues which may or may not be currently or ever clinically symptomatic, yet effect cells & hormones in the cats body. For example, in a cat with IBD, due to IBD, the cat may not have any rise or little rise in BG due to carbs secondary to the tract not absorbing them like a healthy tract would.

There is what is called the Incretin Effect. It is less robust than in humans, but it still occurs in felines. Incretin hormones (GLP-1-secreted by L cells &
GIP-secreted from K cells) play a a major role in glucose homeostasis via their effect on pancreatic beta cells & also by effecting other tissues. They also regulate glycogen secretion. Both hormones are secreted from the intestinal tract in response to the presence of food & their role is to sense the type & quantity of digested nutrients in the gut. GLP-1 delays gastric emptying & increases the feeling of being full (satiety). In the pancreas, GLP-1 augments insulin secretion and suppresses glucagon secretion during hyperglycemia. It protects beta cells. So, in cats, about 70% of the rise in insulin secretion is caused by rise in glucose concentration while 30% is a result of the incretin effect. It's the opposite in humans. This is important because beyond the pancreas, you have K cells, even throughout the cats colon (unlike other mammals), so you have all of this at play along with the L cells, or I should say not at play very well with some cats, which will effect what food, as well as what the ratio of protein, fats & carbs will do in one cat vs. another. Very complex, yet, all of this information helps to explain why this is often not as easy as dosing insulin exactly right or feeding a certain amount of a certain type of food. There are some basic strategies to follow & things you can control with this disease for sure, but then there is quite a bit that is beyond the scope of a can of food or insulin given. There can also be erratic absorption of insulin that can occur & is another complex subject with respect to managing feline diabetes.

I hope this isn't confusing! I actually see it as sanity saving. At times it can become very frustrating when we are doing all the right things, yet there is still confusion, a feeling of or an actual lack of control, as well as lack of information or specific explanation as to why what we are doing is not working as well as we think it should OR it works one day or a few days & then doesn't work anymore. Sometimes, more often, many times, there are additional factors at play & those factors vs what we have done or not done with food or insulin produces the results. There can be what is a strong positive correlation, yet it ends up it is coincidence vs cause & effect.

 

[AmandaE]

Beautiful numbers last night btw! I've tried feeding all sorts of various carbs - Luci loves her high diving board as you can see from her SS. It's always been her personal 'style'...she has food down all the time and I've tried all sorts of various feeding things to 'catch' her early - to no avail. I add a tsp of 13-15% medium carb to a teaspoon or so of LC...seems to be the deterrent she needs to avoid the sharks... Mowgli might also be hitting some lagoon time during the daytime...but without the tests while you're at work it's hard to say...

I hope you have a great day and those pesky IT people opened your access to the forum.

Thanks Sue! I was happy to see them, I think yesterday Mowgli may have went to the lagoon since he had a blue AM +11

I Think I have to just apply more consistency to how I feed before I rule anything out, but I expect Mowgli May be like Luci ... only one way to find out though

 

[Debra and Yoyo]

Great pictures....adorable
Wish we could all figure out what food does what and when.
I can't even get 15% carbs to raise Yoyo's numbers sometimes and then somedays less carbs work....I can't figure it out!
I hope you can figure it out and have great results. Then please share.....please

 

[Sue and Luci]

There can also be erratic absorption of insulin that can occur & is another complex subject with respect to managing feline diabetes.

Profound words to be certain! I've not seen you posting very much - but I'd love to see more of this type of conversation! I find it to be - although complex - helpful to understand how felines absorb food and how insulin functions at a molecular level. It may not be easy to understand, but it sure is helpful when we have a better explanation that give more/less insulin; feed this or that...if you know what I mean. There is no simple one size fits all for these cats and it's often very baffling to many members of this forum who are constantly confused when kitties BG fluctuates so wildly from one instance to another.

Thank you for your comments!

 

[AmandaE]

@TSP yes! You’ve explained it in a way I can grasp... I won’t be explaining it to anyone anytime soon though .

I’ve always suspected that there is more going on than meets the eye... I think that is what’s going on when someone says something like: ‘just when you think you know their patterns, they surprise you with something different’

In the end I’ve accepted that I have only a moderate amount of control... but a girl can hope for Regulation and maybe even.... remission?

 

[AmandaE]

Great pictures....adorable
Wish we could all figure out what food does what and when.
I can't even get 15% carbs to raise Yoyo's numbers sometimes and then somedays less carbs work....I can't figure it out!
I hope you can figure it out and have great results. Then please share.....please

Sometimes it sure is a mystery, isn’t it Debra? Our kitties like to hold their cards close to their chests

 

[Sonia & Leo]

Wow! It's "Black Cat" heaven around here! They're all so beautiful! Amanda, Mowgs sure likes to use his paws in his cute poses!

@TSP

 

[Haley&Diane]

He's so gorgeous!! I love black kitties. Always amazes me when I hear shelters have issues adopting them out....they are my favorites!

 

[AmandaE]

Wow! It's "Black Cat" heaven around here! They're all so beautiful! Amanda, Mowgs sure likes to use his paws in his cute poses!

It IS black cat heaven!! We need @JoyBee&Ravan to contribute! Black cat fan club

Mowg is totally a little ham. Such extravagant paw placement

He's so gorgeous!! I love black kitties. Always amazes me when I hear shelters have issues adopting them out....they are my favorites!

I didn’t really know that shelters can’t find homes for black cats! Is it due to superstition!? A cat is a cat is a cat!! (But I love black ones )

 

[Haley&Diane]

It IS black cat heaven!! We need @JoyBee&Ravan to contribute! Black cat fan club

Mowg is totally a little ham. Such extravagant paw placement

I didn’t really know that shelters can’t find homes for black cats! Is it due to superstition!? A cat is a cat is a cat!! (But I love black ones )

Yes, all the shelters I've volunteered at or spoken with when adopting my own said they often have issues adopting them out. Some even have months where black cats have special adoption fees to try to encourage people to adopt them. They say it's usually due to superstition...which is just so silly to me because like you said, a cat is a cat!

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

And some shelters also will stop adoptions of black cats beginning in early to mid October because of Halloween. My black (well Tux) is looking at this thread from across the bridge, grinning. Black kitties are mysterious lovely creatures

 

[AmandaE]

I think tonight’s shot may have been a fur shot

He had kind of moved a bit when I shot but I thought I had still got the insulin I , I smelled his fur and: nothing. But now I can smell it! Strongly! I must have just smelled the wrong spot ah well. Moving on...

And some shelters also will stop adoptions of black cats beginning in early to mid October because of Halloween. My black (well Tux) is looking at this thread from across the bridge, grinning. Black kitties are mysterious lovely creatures

they don’t around Halloween because of animal violence? Or how come?

Welcome to the black cat party from beyond tux

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

I think tonight’s shot may have been a fur shot

He had kind of moved a bit when I shot but I thought I had still got the insulin I , I smelled his fur and: nothing. But now I can smell it! Strongly! I must have just smelled the wrong spot ah well. Moving on...

they don’t around Halloween because of animal violence? Or how come?

Welcome to the black cat party from beyond tux

I'm sorry about the fur shot, shoot!

Bad kids have done bad things . . . thinking black cats are evil, or a special "prize". So, by stopping adoptions, it's believed some cats will be saved.
I've known people who let their cats outside, make sure their black cats were never outside at Halloween time. All sickening.

 

[Tomlin]

@TSP yes! You’ve explained it in a way I can grasp... I won’t be explaining it to anyone anytime soon though .

I’ve always suspected that there is more going on than meets the eye... I think that is what’s going on when someone says something like: ‘just when you think you know their patterns, they surprise you with something different’

In the end I’ve accepted that I have only a moderate amount of control... but a girl can hope for Regulation and maybe even.... remission?

There is definitely a lot more going on then meets the eye! Hope is always essential & both regulation & remission are reasonable goals (sometimes) depending on the cat. The science has just advanced quite a bit from the initial small studies from many years ago. Just one example, recent studies have shown that many diabetic cats actually suffer from hyersomatotropism, in which insulin resistance is the dominant component of the disease and not cell dysfunction (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449218/). The good news is the more research, the more info & insight, the better chance that there can be more options & better solutions for more of our cats !

 

[Tomlin]

Profound words to be certain! I've not seen you posting very much - but I'd love to see more of this type of conversation! I find it to be - although complex - helpful to understand how felines absorb food and how insulin functions at a molecular level. It may not be easy to understand, but it sure is helpful when we have a better explanation that give more/less insulin; feed this or that...if you know what I mean. There is no simple one size fits all for these cats and it's often very baffling to many members of this forum who are constantly confused when kitties BG fluctuates so wildly from one instance to another.

Thank you for your comments!

@Sue and Luci
I am happy it is helpful information. I would love to stick my head deep in the sand sometimes (not really because it just is not helpful!) & for it to all be super simple, but it just is not simple many times. There are various explanations as the research advances, way beyond food & carbs & tiny amounts of insulin carefully drawn. I do know what you mean about the confusion for people & the troublesome issue is that it is incredibly frustrating when, as I mentioned earlier, a positive correlation is believed & said to be a cause & effect situation. When the action is repeated, whether it be food or insulin & it does not work/stops working etc (because it was just correlation and not the actual cause)people become very confused and frustrated.

I will try to post more . I have gone offline, even with the online SS/monitoring, at this point because I am managing things a bit differently or should say, will be. T ended up with a flare (pancreatitis) which confirmed an immune mediated issue for him but then he also managed to catch a nasty GI bug in the process. It put a time out on the field of play with regard to what I was in process of doing with his vets with the DM.

Have a great day!

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

@AmandaE
what an unpleasant preshot last night..
Did you feed him Friskies?
Just checking if you are still carrying on with the idea.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Love the relaxed pose at the top of the stairs!

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

(sigh) just keep on keeping on -- same here --

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

dearly loved my two "black" cats that I had as a teenager -- Chris and Cricket -- litter brothers, black in quotes since they were 3/4 Siamese, and in the hot bright Sacramento sun, their allegedly black coats showed as darkest deepest brown (or else they were sunfaded) -- not a bit of fur, not a whisker any other color

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Love the black cat theme, though mine have had a bit more white than most here. The shelter I worked at had difficulty adopting out black or even black and whites. And yes, no black cat adoptions allowed in October.

recent studies have shown that many diabetic cats actually suffer from hyersomatotropism, in which insulin resistance is the dominant component of the disease and not cell dysfunction

One in four cats has acromegaly (caused by hypersomatrotropism), we see quite a few of them here. Another one that people used to think was rare is Cushings, but we see a number of them, especially over on the high dose forum. The phrase "each cat is different" is so true. There are so many secondary conditions that can also contribute to a cat's numbers. They definitely don't follow the rule book.

 

[Bellasmom]

That is actually T's brother Kramer! T is a ragdoll & Kramer's little sister, Eve, is T's cat spouse essentially! Never seen anything like it--too sweet.

Amanda,

I am not sure if any of this info will help you, but my hope is it helps with understanding what else could be going on/in play sort of speak with respect to food/BG/insulin.

I know everyone knows what happens with BG & carbs is all dependent on the cat & largely it depends on how well a cat metabolizes or does not metabolize them. This includes the effects of any possible underlying issues which may or may not be currently or ever clinically symptomatic, yet effect cells & hormones in the cats body. For example, in a cat with IBD, due to IBD, the cat may not have any rise or little rise in BG due to carbs secondary to the tract not absorbing them like a healthy tract would.

There is what is called the Incretin Effect. It is less robust than in humans, but it still occurs in felines. Incretin hormones (GLP-1-secreted by L cells &
GIP-secreted from K cells) play a a major role in glucose homeostasis via their effect on pancreatic beta cells & also by effecting other tissues. They also regulate glycogen secretion. Both hormones are secreted from the intestinal tract in response to the presence of food & their role is to sense the type & quantity of digested nutrients in the gut. GLP-1 delays gastric emptying & increases the feeling of being full (satiety). In the pancreas, GLP-1 augments insulin secretion and suppresses glucagon secretion during hyperglycemia. It protects beta cells. So, in cats, about 70% of the rise in insulin secretion is caused by rise in glucose concentration while 30% is a result of the incretin effect. It's the opposite in humans. This is important because beyond the pancreas, you have K cells, even throughout the cats colon (unlike other mammals), so you have all of this at play along with the L cells, or I should say not at play very well with some cats, which will effect what food, as well as what the ratio of protein, fats & carbs will do in one cat vs. another. Very complex, yet, all of this information helps to explain why this is often not as easy as dosing insulin exactly right or feeding a certain amount of a certain type of food. There are some basic strategies to follow & things you can control with this disease for sure, but then there is quite a bit that is beyond the scope of a can of food or insulin given. There can also be erratic absorption of insulin that can occur & is another complex subject with respect to managing feline diabetes.

I hope this isn't confusing! I actually see it as sanity saving. At times it can become very frustrating when we are doing all the right things, yet there is still confusion, a feeling of or an actual lack of control, as well as lack of information or specific explanation as to why what we are doing is not working as well as we think it should OR it works one day or a few days & then doesn't work anymore. Sometimes, more often, many times, there are additional factors at play & those factors vs what we have done or not done with food or insulin produces the results. There can be what is a strong positive correlation, yet it ends up it is coincidence vs cause & effect.

Thank you so much for this