? 09/05 Hercules AMPS 329, +3:173. Help with food, please?

Hercule's mum

Hercule's mum

Member Since 2020
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/08-05-hercules-amps280-4-90-pmps-419-frustrated.247131/

Happy Sunday everyone!

Hercules continues with his crazy drives and bounces....Can anyone help me with food management, pretty please?

This morning is being quite the repeat of yesterdays's, which ended up with a magnificant bounce again....

My first question is: am I correct that I should see the effect of food an hour afterwards?

Today and yesterday I went with 15% at +2 I could see it was an active cycle, even though he was quite high. I did check an hour later both days, and both days he dove spetacularly. Should I start bringing much higher carbs at +2 if it BG is lower than amps? If so, how much?

Yesterday, after the huge dive between +2 and +3, I decided to go with 30% to stop the diving. At +4 he has gone still quite a bit more low. So I gave more 30%, but then he start a crazy bounce... So I am worried I gave him too much carb, but can the carb I hgave him at +4 affect for that long?

Today I gave him 20% at +3 after the huge dive, and perhaps I will avoid giving high carb at +4?

If anyone can make sense of what he is doing or have any advice, I would love to hear about it.....

@Marina & Chico
@Bandit's Mom
@Sienne and Gabby (GA)

Sorry to tag, I am lost at how to manage things at the moment....
 
First, please check your spreadsheet. I suspect you dosed 0.5u and not 5.0u.

I mentioned this yesterday. If you are trying to steer the numbers, test more often. The effects of HC canned food (or syrup) are relatively short lived. If Hercule is a "fast metabolizer" then it could be out of his system in an hour. Just as a reminder, these are the instructions in the managing low numbers sticky:
  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of gravy from high carb food or high carb food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using a couple of drops of syrup plus low carb food is an alternative.
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I suspect you dosed 0.5u and not 5.0u.
Click to expand...
Indeed! Thanks for noticing!

Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
If Hercule is a "fast metabolizer" then it could be out of his system in an hour.
Click to expand...
That is what I tought, thanks!


The good news is that not giving any HC at +4 today seem to have increased the duration of the insulin, so I take today as a good day! Let's see if I can do it again tomorrw!
 
In my opinion you did great in the yesterday's morning cycle, he dove but you stopped him from going too low. The point is for him not to go under 50, so anything "safe" is good. the less low he goes the less he would bounce (at least theoretically). Knowing Herculese's patterns i would say there are 2 possibilities:
1 he just bounced and it is part of the process, no matter how much we don't like it or
2 he dove again later in the cycle and that is the reason for the bounce.

Hercule's mum said:
The good news is that not giving any HC at +4 today seem to have increased the duration of the insulin, so I take today as a good day! Let's see if I can do it again tomorrw!
Click to expand...

If i can advice anything it would be not to mix 2 different theories when experimenting. Choose one experiment and stick to it for at least a few consecutive cycles to see if it does what you expect it to. Hercules has had in the past, cycles when he accelerated a dive, slowed down and then accelerated again. The only reason he slowed down between +3 to +4 was because of the HC food, i am not saying it was wrong to feed 2% at +4 (because he was still relatively high) but if it were Chico, as precaution i would have tested +5 as well, if he was still slower i would have not fed at +5 just like you did.

From what i understood when trying this experiment with Chico (and trust me, i was searching for the "reason" even when we were doing it already), the goal is not to get him regulated on this dose, the goal is to make him stop from diving even if it means that overall his values will increase on this dose. If this where to happen than you have the chance to increase. We knew this was the case with Chico because we stopped giving him any honey in the last few days on the 0.5U dose (the first time around) and he was just naturally going higher and higher.

If i judge by Chico's behavior since we started being much more on top of his +1 and +2, it gave us more control over his dives and gradually his dives became smoother. It allowed us to increase the insulin dose and bring him a bit closer to what we want him to be doing.

Karen, Hercs patterns are very difficult to predict, i am extremely sorry for your frustration, i really feel your pain and i wish i could help in any other way than with simple words :bighug::bighug: You are doing an incredible job, it just takes a bit more effort for you than for the majority of people. The only thing i would suggest is give this experiment 1 week commitment and if you don't see any changes, than just move to the next experiment. If this were to help, he should become a bit less of a diver. :bighug::bighug:
 
I agree with Eliz :p:D

Another thing, it would be very interesting to see Herc in a graph or on a libre. Maybe we're missing something?

Where are you giving him his shot?
I've been doing my own experiments on how and if, it effects the cycle :p
 
SashaV said:
I've been doing my own experiments on how and if, it effects the cycle
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I use to rotate around R and L of scruff and shank. But at some point decided that scruff had to fast of an onset? These days is Am on R, PM on left of shank.
I have become worried whether sometimes i get muscle.... what would that do?
 
Hercule's mum said:
I use to rotate around R and L of scruff and shank. But at some point decided that scruff had to fast of an onset? These days is Am on R, PM on left of shank.
I have become worried whether sometimes i get muscle.... what would that do?
Click to expand...
I believe if you hit a muscle you won't have any doubts. Seizure and a severe hypo?

Edit: I just remembered I read an old condo about someone shooting IM on purpose. I think there was ketones in the picture...
 
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