09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98 +2=90 +3.5=95 +4.5=123

[Elsa]

Yesterday's condo 31/08 Miou PMBG=115 +2=114 newbie

Last night's numbers

• PMBG=115
  +2=114
  +8=138
  +11=149

Today's numbers

• AMPS=148
  +2=110
  +4=68
  +4.5=67
  +5=71

Hello again,

It is really encouraging and moving to wake up into such a warm welcoming, and help offered with such an abundance. I really appreciate it.
So I will try to address everything that was brought up and I hope I won't forget anything
As Wendy mentioned,

Elsa is pretty new and really hasn't had that much experience shooting low. She has been working to reduce her no shot number but has also been reducing the dose , as much to try as a newbie to try and find a dose she can give consistently. It's been happening so fast with her she has has a lot to take in at one time.

Nonetheless I am trying to speed up to Miou's rapid progress, and am willing to follow the tight regulation protocol.

When I joined the Board at the Main FDMB forum, people explained to me about how glargine works and learned about the bounces, the overlaps, carryovers etc. and the importance of testing in between. I learned to have a hypo kit (with extra test strips) the hard way, and as I was suggested I have read about the Tight regulation protocol, and how to handle low numbers, and was explained about the things I didn't understand, but the info is still sinking in.

Also, until now I have been shooting at >150 and I already feel comfortable though to shoot at >130. But I haven't had the chance to shoot near 130, since I consider the 148-149 as being like 150.

However I realize I have to shoot quite lower than 130. When looking at her spreadsheet I can see the patern, of preshots at the low 100s (<120) if she had her previous shot, or climbing to mid100s (140-170) if she has skipped her previous shot.

So I gave her her 0.25 this AM. The tough part will be to shoot her tonight, as she will be quite lower.
I will be keeping you posted

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68

It looks like you know your cat! How about giving Miou a teaspoon or two of low carb food? This should slow her numbers down a bit and encourage her to "surf" in these very healthy numbers.

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71

Hi Sienne,

At the time you posted I was feeding Miou a couple of teaspoons of her low carb food. :smile:
I forgot to mention that I listened to the advise here, and since yesterday noon I feed her every 2-3 hours a couple of teaspoons of her food.
It feels good to know that I am making the right things, and I have to say that I wouldn't know what to do if I had not had access to the knowledge you people are sharing @FDMB

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71

I'm impressed by the way you've picked up the information that floats around here. Just one thought... See how Miou's numbers look if you are feeding after nadir. There's less insulin available after nadir so feeding late in the cycle may raise numbers. Alternatively, if Miou's pancreas is working and putting out it's own insulin, the food may keep her pancreas working and the numbers may stay in lower ranges.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71

The good thing about you shooting low is your time zone - because you are 8? hours ahead of us on the east coast of the US it means when you do shoot I think only around 7pm EST(4pm PST) so there should be people around to help as we are all still awake.

Are you at +3 hours on GMT?

Given she dropped to 68 today I am still thinking 0.25 might be a little high (she still needs to build up the depot at the new dose) but we will see tonite. Make sure you are ready with coffee and lots of strips.
To earn a decrease according to the protocol she needs to drop below 50 so you have to finesse things to let her drop below 50 (but not too low) and then bring her up. So test more as she starts to look like she is going to get there, Every 30 mins if you need to, then when she sneaks under 50 bring her back up with HC or LC depending on how low she is. The FDMB "sitter" can advise more on all this.
Don't panic too much about her dropping under 50 - as long as you are testing and are ready with the HC she will be fine - and you dont see hypo symptoms and effects till under 40 generally.

Wendy

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71

Miou just had a little diarrhea!!! She never had diarrhea in her life before!!!
She doesn't seem to have any other problem, her appetite is as usual great, she purrs and follows me around looking for her petting machine (that would be me).
I don't think its the food since she is eating this food for more than 10 days now.
Could it be that at some point today I had forgotten to take the can out of the fridge on time and she had her food quite cold?

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

What food you are giving when she drops low? Any new treats?

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

No I didn't give her HC food or any treats, just her normal food.
But her sister Alitra just had loose stools almost like diarrhea.
I am throwing away this can of food as a starters... it might have gone bad.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

Definately and check around the house to see if there is anything they might have gotten into. Does she get outside?

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

Definately and check around the house to see if there is anything they might have gotten into. Does she get outside?

No they are not going out, the only outside they know is the balcony. I checked around there is nothing they could have eaten that I can see.
I even checked the plants at the balcony - they sometimes like to nibble on the leaves of my rose plants, to help themselves vomit hairballs - but there is no sign of any chewed leaves.
Would some yogurt help them?

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

See how she does the rest of the day. Kitties can get a GI flu just like humans. The quick things you can do is pick up some baby food squash (squash only -- no onions or other veggies) and add a teaspoon or so to Miou and Alitra's food. The squash has fiber and it may help. Canned pumpkin (not pie filling) can do the same thing. Plain yogurt, if your kitties like it, if it contains active cultures can also help. FortiFlora is a probiotic that is formulated for cats and you can order on-line. Its very helpful with diarrhea. If you want a probiotic sooner, try Pearls which are a human probiotic. I don't know if you can get any of these products in Greece.

Given she dropped to 68 today I am still thinking 0.25 might be a little high...

I disagree. Miou's numbers are beautiful. This is a great range for a cat to surf in. It helps the pancreas to heal. This dose is working just fine. It makes far more sense to let the numbers dictate the dose rather than try to use a crystal ball to anticipate what might or might not happen. (I've been at this for a while and my crystal ball is permanently out for repairs.)

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

The quick things you can do is pick up some baby food squash (squash only -- no onions or other veggies) and add a teaspoon or so to Miou and Alitra's food. The squash has fiber and it may help. Canned pumpkin (not pie filling) can do the same thing. Plain yogurt, if your kitties like it, if it contains active cultures can also help. FortiFlora is a probiotic that is formulated for cats and you can order on-line. Its very helpful with diarrhea. If you want a probiotic sooner, try Pearls which are a human probiotic. I don't know if you can get any of these products in Greece.

Well one thing that we do have in Greece is real yogurt (hence the Greek Yogurt you may see at the super market) ;-)
Pumpkin baby food I don't know I would have to check tomorrow at the supermarket, but I hope the diarrhea has cleared up by tomorrow.

As for today's PM shot... I was thinking to go on and shoot the .25 if Miou is >110
But if her diarrhea persists, will the HC food do the trick to bring her numbers up if needed?

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71

The good thing about you shooting low is your time zone - because you are 8? hours ahead of us on the east coast of the US it means when you do shoot I think only around 7pm EST(4pm PST) so there should be people around to help as we are all still awake.

Are you at +3 hours on GMT?

I am at GMT+2 (Athens, Greece), but on Summer saving time so I guess that makes it +3(?) not really sure... The only thing I know is that when I visited my ex boyfriend in Nebraska, when it was noon there, it was late evening here in Greece

Given she dropped to 68 today I am still thinking 0.25 might be a little high (she still needs to build up the depot at the new dose) but we will see tonite. Make sure you are ready with coffee and lots of strips.
To earn a decrease according to the protocol she needs to drop below 50 so you have to finesse things to let her drop below 50 (but not too low) and then bring her up. So test more as she starts to look like she is going to get there, Every 30 mins if you need to, then when she sneaks under 50 bring her back up with HC or LC depending on how low she is. The FDMB "sitter" can advise more on all this.
Don't panic too much about her dropping under 50 - as long as you are testing and are ready with the HC she will be fine - and you dont see hypo symptoms and effects till under 40 generally.

Wendy

I have my kit ready and I will try not to panic... I was thinking in those lines of measuring often and let her go as far as 50-47 and then bring her up with honey and HC food... actually that was my plan for the daytime today too, that is why I got a +4.5 as she was down to 68.
At night it's more easily to panic as there is the sleepiness factor... I have a coffee kit ready too ;-)

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

I don't know if there is pumpkin baby food. In the US, we have squash baby food. We also have canned pumpkin (but that's because people will use it in baking and they don't want to be bothered with buying a fresh pumpkin and cooking pounds/kg of pumpkin for the small amount that would be needed in a recipe). I think Greek yogurt is probably popular everywhere! (It's certainly a staple in my diet!!)

HC food should work to bring numbers up regardless of whether a kitty is feeling good or not so good. We recommend using a canned, gravy-type of food rather than dry food. The alternative is to add a few drops of corn syrup or honey to LC food. My kitty doesn't do well with HC canned food since most of these varieties contain gluten. The gluten upsets her stomach and and give her diarrhea. I add syrup to her LC food to steer her numbers if they are low.

By any chance, were you giving your cats beef flavored food? Beef (and fish) are common food allergies for cats. Beef will also give Gabby diarrhea.

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 - diarrhea

HC food should work to bring numbers up regardless of whether a kitty is feeling good or not so good. We recommend using a canned, gravy-type of food rather than dry food. The alternative is to add a few drops of corn syrup or honey to LC food.

I have bought canned gravy food the brand is Gourmet, and is the exact equivalent of Fancy Feast, but if Miou does not eat it (which I doubt - she eats everything that can be eaten) I have honey and she loves it.

By any chance, were you giving your cats beef flavored food? Beef (and fish) are common food allergies for cats. Beef will also give Gabby diarrhea.

no beef, or fish, it is white meats (turkey and chicken) and these meats have never given them trouble this far...
I will be monitoring them
atm they have eaten a teaspoon yogurt each and are sleeping

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11

The girls have woke up rom their siesta and both are asking for food... Alitra is playing hide and seek with Cleopatra... Miou is just stocking the kitchen door :lol:
They all seem ok!
Miou's numbers went up till 136 @+9 and then started dropping again... with a 124@+11

I am getting a bit nervous with this drop...

Half an hour to her shot time

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11

 

[tomtom13]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11

I always felt the same as you: those low PS values are so hard!!! so hard!!! I have delayed so many shots!! for HOURS!!
:shock:
I worried all day about them....and it is so strange to feel that way...because that is our goal: lower values all the time.

But after a while...you do welcome them.....you realize that you can keep them safe with the help of these amazing people on this board giving help and guidance .....

your super stress about a low pre-shot value will diminish after a while (most of the time! yikes).....but for now.,.,,.i totally understand!!! we have all been there..

you will do great....you will keep Miou safe...


~kelly

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11

You are doing fantastic with her today and I hope the diarrhea clears up quickly.

I had a moment last night as I was lying in bed because I told you we don't have a "no shoot" number here; I was going to post in your condo first thing that I was incorrect but I saw Jill provided you with the info. I had stated earlier in the condo that we shoot numbers above 50 as long as it is safe and then contradicted myself by saying we don't have a no shoot number. I was thinking in terms of Health and their "200" as a no-shoot and wasn't thinking about the lower end of the spectrum. My apologies. And I'm glad Jill gave you the correct info.

then when she sneaks under 50 bring her back up with HC or LC depending on how low she is.

I'd like to add a bit to this, as well. If Miou is in the 50s and just dips her toes below it, I'd look and see where she is in the cycle before I reach for any HC food or syrup. If she's at +2 and dropping, then you might want to use some HC for a drop below 50 because you've got a long cycle ahead of you. But if she drops below 50 late in the cycle, I'd stick with the LC and see if that works. The reason is because the action of the insulin "may" start to decrease a bit after nadir and you don't want to shorten it's duration by feeding a HC food. Of course, some kitties get really nice duration and they might tend to run a little lower even after nadir.

It's one of those "know thy cat" scenarios and you are doing a great job learning about Miou.

And FWIW, I agree with Sienne.....this dose is working lovely for Miou. I do not think it is too much at this tme.

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11=124 PMPS=121

:YMHUG:

.and it is so strange to feel that way...because that is our goal: lower values all the time.

But after a while...you do welcome them.....you realize that you can keep them safe with the help of these amazing people on this board giving help and guidance .....

Kelly I couldn't say it better

Anyway her PMPS was 121 and I went ahead and gave her her shot ... cross your fingers
I hope Miou will eventually forgive me for pricking her ears so many times tonight...

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou AMPS 148 +2=110 +4=68 +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11

You are doing fantastic with her today and I hope the diarrhea clears up quickly.

I had a moment last night as I was lying in bed because I told you we don't have a "no shoot" number here; I was going to post in your condo first thing that I was incorrect but I saw Jill provided you with the info. I had stated earlier in the condo that we shoot numbers above 50 as long as it is safe and then contradicted myself by saying we don't have a no shoot number. I was thinking in terms of Health and their "200" as a no-shoot and wasn't thinking about the lower end of the spectrum. My apologies. And I'm glad Jill gave you the correct info.

then when she sneaks under 50 bring her back up with HC or LC depending on how low she is.

I'd like to add a bit to this, as well. If Miou is in the 50s and just dips her toes below it, I'd look and see where she is in the cycle before I reach for any HC food or syrup. If she's at +2 and dropping, then you might want to use some HC for a drop below 50 because you've got a long cycle ahead of you. But if she drops below 50 late in the cycle, I'd stick with the LC and see if that works. The reason is because the action of the insulin "may" start to decrease a bit after nadir and you don't want to shorten it's duration by feeding a HC food. Of course, some kitties get really nice duration and they might tend to run a little lower even after nadir.

It's one of those "know thy cat" scenarios and you are doing a great job learning about Miou.



And FWIW, I agree with Sienne.....this dose is working lovely for Miou. I do not think it is too much at this tme.

Marje I got the no shoot thing as that it depends on the person's comfort level and the cat's case... don't feel bad please
I also will have in mind the tip about the how early or late in the cycle there is a 50s, and how to deal with it... that is something I didn't know, let alone though by myself

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11=124 PMPS=121

As long as you give her treats I am sure she will be fine wit the pokes. Depending on how things go, it might not be too many anyway. What do you think Marje .. +2 for the first test?

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou +5=71 +7=120 +9=136 +11=124 PMPS=121

As long as you give her treats I am sure she will be fine wit the pokes. Depending on how things go, it might not be too many anyway. What do you think Marje .. +2 for the first test?

I have already done a +1 and Miou is at 98... i already started poking ;-)

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98

That's a good sized drop by +1. If this were me, I'd get a +1.5 just so I stay ahead of the numbers. I'd also be sure to give Miou some LC food with each test.

 

[Wendy&Tiggy(GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98

Won't the LC interfere with the idea of letting her drop below 50? I thought Marje was suggesting to wait until she went under 50 to give LC?

Wendy

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98

1.5=94
I think that its not a very fast drop... is it?

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98

No...I wasn't suggesting letting her go below 50 before giving LC. I said that you might not need to rush for the HC below 50 because it depends on where they are in the cycle.

When they start down into green, you should feed a little LC. When you retest, if they are down more (but above 50) try a little more LC. lather, rinse, repeat unless they go below 50 early in the cycle. If they go below 50 early in the cycle, you might want to give some HC.

If they stay above 50, just try LC until they are flat and start surfing. LC should not interfere with the cycle.

Elsa...that isn't much of a difference between the +1 and +1.5 but I'd still get a +2 because that's about onset. We need to see how much she comes down at onset.

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98 +2=90

Miou's +2 is 90, gave her some LC , anyway she allways gets some food at this time... the fact that LC wont interfere with the cycle is nice to know

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98 +2=90

I'd plan on a +3.

 

[Elsa]

Re: 09/01 Miou +11=124 PMPS=121 +1=98 +2=90 +3.5=95

I'd plan on a +3.

at +3 Miou was sleeping at her shelf... quite high on the bookcase for me to poke her ear... I got a +3.5 though and it was 95
Could she be rising? Or its within the gllucometer's error threshold
------
edit
------
Maybe I drew less than 0.25... she has gone lower with this dose, and having started at a higher number at shot time.
Or maybe I had drawn more than 0.25 at that time...

An other thing I would like to know is... ok lets suppose at +4 and +5 she is surfing around the 90s, what if her pancreas suddenly releases some insulin wouldn't she go hypo?
So actually I should be staying up all night and checking her...

 

[Elsa]

+4,5=123
well Miou is rising, and I will go and get some sleep before the sun rises too
I don't think there is any danger now, but when I get up for some water or to give Cleo some food (she always cries for it at about 6am) I will do an other test.
Still I think my 0.25 is not as consistent as it should... like today it was less the other day more the day before that less again...
I don't know if I am making any sense since it is late and I am quite tired.

Anyway talk to you all later

Elsa

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Good plan. And you two did great today/tonight!