08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMBG 82 dose help

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koala kim

Member Since 2012
I am again asking for some guidance.

We did our 2nd Curve Sunday, and Spooky was very uncooperative. He even snapped at us; something he has never done before :sad: so we couldn't get a good curve for him.

Based on the results however, the vet bumped him up to 1.5u twice a day. Last night, his number was 91, so I decided to give him the old dose of 1u. This morning his BG was 315, so I gave him the 1.5.

Tonight, it is 82. Do I give him the full 1.5u or give him 1u ?


Thank you in advance.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82

Hi guys, I don't know the right move, but someone else will! Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Kim too. My kitty went OTJ right before you got here! Just stopping by to see the new kitties. Those green per-shots are very encouraging. Paws crossed that he is starting to heal his pancreas for you!

One other thing...type something like dose? In your subject line and you'll get eyes faster.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Hi Kim! Nice to meet you too!

How wonderful for your Kitty! :smile:

I feel like I have nothing to contribute except questions. Everyone here has been so great. I was truly blessed finding this place. :-D
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

hello!

You don't have the data to shoot this low, especially on an increased dose. How long are you able to stall and still shoot 12 hours after this in the morning? And do you have high carb wet food on hand, and plenty of test strips?

Here is our sticky on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers, which should help. The first couple of times you get low preshots, we suggest stalling (without feeding) until the number rises to a number you are comfortable shooting.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Thanks Kim for holding my hand while I wait.

Your kitties are adorable! <3
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

I also should add that the 1 unit dose brought Spooky down to 91 at PMPS last night. Most likely he was lower than that at some point during the day. It is to be expected that 1.5u would bring him down even lower than that. You might want to spend more time collecting data at 1 unit before increasing the dose again. Find out for sure how low 1 unit is taking him by getting spot checks in a few different cycles, then decide whether you want to change the dose or not.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Hi Libby!

Thank you for answering. Unfortunately, ad already fed himas all three cats were hungry.
We do have high carb wet on hand. Should I give him dome of that and see if he will wat it? The problem will be my husband is leaving for work in a few minutes and I cannot test Spooky by myself. He fights too much, even wrapped up.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Help is at hand! We cross posted so it looked like I wrote after Libby, but I had not seen her note yet!
Libby and Lucy said:
hello!

You don't have the data to shoot this low, especially on an increased dose. How long are you able to stall and still shoot 12 hours after this in the morning? And do you have high carb wet food on hand, and plenty of test strips?

Here is our sticky on Shooting and Handling Low Numbers, which should help. The first couple of times you get low preshots, we suggest stalling (without feeding) until the number rises to a number you are comfortable shooting.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

koala kim said:
Hi Libby!

Thank you for answering. Unfortunately, ad already fed himas all three cats were hungry.
We do have high carb wet on hand. Should I give him dome of that and see if he will wat it? The problem will be my husband is leaving for work in a few minutes and I cannot test Spooky by myself. He fights too much, even wrapped up.
Click to expand...

no, don't give him high carb unless you have already given the shot. The point of not feeding was that we want to see if the number has started to rise naturally, rather than rising because he ate. We want to see if the Lantus is starting to wear off.

If your husband is leaving and you can't test tonight, then I wouldn't shoot. Wait until a cycle when you can test before shooting green.

What I WOULD do is get another test before your husband leaves, just to be sure the food put on the brakes and his number isn't still sliding.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Libby and Lucy said:
I also should add that the 1 unit dose brought Spooky down to 91 at PMPS last night. Most likely he was lower than that at some point during the day. It is to be expected that 1.5u would bring him down even lower than that. You might want to spend more time collecting data at 1 unit before increasing the dose again. Find out for sure how low 1 unit is taking him by getting spot checks in a few different cycles, then decide whether you want to change the dose or not.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as much as I would love to spot check, it is near to impossible. My husband & I work opposite schedules. We literally only see each other about an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening.

Spooky will not let us test him by ourselves. We have tried 8 ways from Sunday. It takes both of us to test him- one to hold him wrapped like a burrito, and one to actually test.

The only day we can do spot checks are Sundays. I know it might sound like a cop-out, but it isn't. We have tried. We really have. We don't know how else to test him by ourselves.

Should I just give him the 1u tonight then? Or maybe .5u? Or just not give him a shot? I am so confused right now and upset because I know we need more data and we have tried but we just cannot seem to be able to get it unless both of us are here.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Libby and Lucy said:
koala kim said:
Hi Libby!

Thank you for answering. Unfortunately, ad already fed himas all three cats were hungry.
We do have high carb wet on hand. Should I give him dome of that and see if he will wat it? The problem will be my husband is leaving for work in a few minutes and I cannot test Spooky by myself. He fights too much, even wrapped up.
Click to expand...

no, don't give him high carb unless you have already given the shot. The point of not feeding was that we want to see if the number has started to rise naturally, rather than rising because he ate. We want to see if the Lantus is starting to wear off.

If your husband is leaving and you can't test tonight, then I wouldn't shoot. Wait until a cycle when you can test before shooting green.

What I WOULD do is get another test before your husband leaves, just to be sure the food put on the brakes and his number isn't still sliding.
Click to expand...
Thanks Libby. I am on a roller coaster tonight. :sad:

Okay- no high carb food. I haven't given Spooky his shot yet, and my husband is already gone.

Okay- no shot then. Thank you! I just feel like a mess sometimes, trying to get a handle on this.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Wow. opposite schedules give you quite a challenge.
Do you have any friends or neighbors who would come help you?

Do you have a treat for Spooky that grabs his attention? Most of our cats learn to cooperate because they want the treat
and they only get that treat for testing.

Sounds like you have lots of experimenting to do so you can find Spooky's cooperation. Good Luck. You will figure it out.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Because of the insulin depot, tonight's cycle will carry influence from today's increased dose, no matter what dose you give (Lantus has a cumulative effect). It wouldn't be responsible for me to suggest that you shoot any dose tonight, especially without the ability to monitor. You'll probably just need to let Spooky run in slightly higher numbers than most of us do using Tight Regulation. That's fine, there's nothing wrong with that! You have to do what is safe and works with your life.

Usually if a cat starts giving unshootable numbers at preshot, if the caregiver isn't able to start learning to shoot those numbers we will usually suggest lowering the dose a little bit. That will usually bring the whole range up enough that you'll be able to give a shot every 12 hours. I would probably stay with the 1 unit for now, but if you start having to skip shots often then reduce it by a little bit and see what happens.

Keep trying on the testing, too. Treats, treats, and more treats. Some cats take a long time to give in, but most will settle down eventually if there are treats involved (or if he doesn't like treats, does he like to be brushed? Or snuggled or something that he enjoys). Cats love routines, so do it the same way every time and he might learn to like it. One thing I have learned from fostering cats (and having to medicate cats that don't know me) is that sometimes it really helps to just make it part of what we do. My morning routine when Lucy was on insulin went something like get up, stumble to the bathroom, test the cat, brush my teeth, feed/shoot the cat, take a shower, etc. It was just part of the routine and I did things in the same order every day so she knew what to expect.
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Kim

It's good you didn't shoot tonight. When you do shoot again, Libby was trying to convey that you should stay at 1u. We don't skip the doses around based on the nadirs but the 1.5u put him low so I'd give the 1u a try. If he's below 150, you should let us know so we can walk you through shooting....don't feed if you get 150 or lower in a PS...post and ask for help and then we can give you options. But try to stick with 1u when it's safe to shoot. You can always ask for dosing help and one of us will look at his SS and help out with that.

If you didn't shoot, then instead of PMPS, it will be PMBG. K?
 
Re: 08/14 Spooky AMPS 315, PMPS 82 dose help

Thank you Rhiannon, Libby, and Marjorie. I am so sorry for the mini meltdown. Just a lot going on lately.

So...it's okay to post every time he has a low number? There has been a time or two that I tried to go by the guidelines on my own, because I didn't want to be a bother. :sad:
I couldn't find the threads tonight, so posted. I truly appreciate all the help.

As for testing...we have tried treats. The only treats he would eat was a Stella & Chewy's nugget. That lasted about a week, week and a half. Now he refuses them. We had foolishly thought he was getting used to the testing because he would jump up on the couch close to test time. The past two weeks, the opposite is true- when he senses it's close to test time, he will try to hide. This is about 5-10 minutes before test time, before we even call him. He has a built-in clock.

We pet him, stroke him, I sing to him- nothing seems to work now. We can't cuddle him, as he has never been a cuddle kitty. As soon as he hits the couch, it now takes both of us to wrap him. My husband used to be able to wrap Spooky without my help. I have had to turn the 'beep' off of the monitor, because in the past week, he has started getting frantic when he hears it.

I warm his ear with a small bottle filled with hot (not boiling or scalding) water to make it easier for him. We have also been applying the triple antibiotic ointment with pain relief on his ears. As soon as I remove the bottle, he will try to flatten his ears.

Spooky does not do well with other people. They have to be in the house for at least an hour or two before he will even show himself. When my husband's cousin visited last month, he hid the whole time.

I had hoped that by this time, I would be able to test him by myself so I could do spot checks. No such luck. :sad:
 
Does he like fish?
http://beefeaters.com/shop/item/freeze-dried-salmon-for-cats-7280

shrimp?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12243347
these are really great with a little water to rehydrate.

turkey & salmon?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...ferralID=9e719b25-e68f-11e1-8e16-001b2166becc

boiled chicken? raw shrimp or cooked? tuna ( people kind)


My cat will not tolerate the free hand method. I think we don't realize our own strength and push harder than we have to, after all,
it's nerve wracking. Are you free handing or using a lancing device?
She got really upset with me the first time I tried to free hand. She puts up with the device. It clicks and she knows it's coming.
( it's the shots that get her really riled up)

I was holding her down at first while I learned to do it but I found very quickly that she objected more to being held down.
She has a half tower that sits beside me by the couch and we do all our ugly business on it. It's a good height for me and while
she lays there, I come up to her and click on her ear , and get a bg reading and then give her a treat.
She prefers that to being held down and cooperated. She knows I'll hunt her down no matter what so we've got our way now.
You Will find your way. Be Patient with yourself.
My cat doesn't like other's either. No one ever sees her, at best they see a tail.
I think you need to find the treat that gets and holds his attention. And try to spend a little extra time seeking him out
and touching him, petting him when you aren't gonna poke him too.
And you should feel welcome to ask any little thing you have trouble with . We've all been thru our own trials and errors
and one of us might just have the suggestion that works and helps you.
We are all here to learn and help others learn how to cope and improve our kitties lives.
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
Does he like fish?
http://beefeaters.com/shop/item/freeze-dried-salmon-for-cats-7280

shrimp?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=12243347
these are really great with a little water to rehydrate.

turkey & salmon?
http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...ferralID=9e719b25-e68f-11e1-8e16-001b2166becc

boiled chicken? raw shrimp or cooked? tuna ( people kind)


My cat will not tolerate the free hand method. I think we don't realize our own strength and push harder than we have to, after all,
it's nerve wracking. Are you free handing or using a lancing device?
She got really upset with me the first time I tried to free hand. She puts up with the device. It clicks and she knows it's coming.
( it's the shots that get her really riled up)

I was holding her down at first while I learned to do it but I found very quickly that she objected more to being held down.
She has a half tower that sits beside me by the couch and we do all our ugly business on it. It's a good height for me and while
she lays there, I come up to her and click on her ear , and get a bg reading and then give her a treat.
She prefers that to being held down and cooperated. She knows I'll hunt her down no matter what so we've got our way now.
You Will find your way. Be Patient with yourself.
My cat doesn't like other's either. No one ever sees her, at best they see a tail.
I think you need to find the treat that gets and holds his attention. And try to spend a little extra time seeking him out
and touching him, petting him when you aren't gonna poke him too.
And you should feel welcome to ask any little thing you have trouble with . We've all been thru our own trials and errors
and one of us might just have the suggestion that works and helps you.
We are all here to learn and help others learn how to cope and improve our kitties lives.
Click to expand...
Thanks Rhiannon. :smile:

I have freeze dried fish and freeze dried shrimp. Out of 3 cats, only BearBear (civvie sib) would eat any of it, and that was the shrimp.
I think perhaps he has associated treats with testing now, and maybe thinks if he doesn't eat them, then there will be no testing? Who knows what goes through his mind? :?

My husband had tried the lancet last month with no luck, so I've been free handing it. I decided to try the lancet this morning (first time I have tried). The click sound made it worse. He started growling and continued to growl the whole time it took to get a sample. :sad:

Ironically, Spooky is a dream to give the actual insulin shot to. He just chills back while we give it to him. It only takes one of us for that, and literally just a few seconds. We'll make sure he didn't get a furshot, and that's it. Not even half a minute.
I wish we could get him to relax like that for the testing. :-|

He is such a laid back kitty most of the time, but when it's close to test time, and he knows it is- we don't move a muscle or do anything out of the ordinary, he will jump down off "his" chair, or the couch, and try to slowly sneak his way into a side room where he can easily hide.
 
Spooky, your beans are just trying to help you so you are healthy and feel good. I know it hurts but it doesn't last long. Wow, Kim, he is quite a challenge. I know it's hard but keep trying and it will get easier. I remember reading that someone's kitty purred through a test and I thought "There is no way that Zener will ever do that." but guess what, he has.

Do not ever hesitate to ask for help on anything on the board, but especially with dosing. We are all crazy about cats and want to help. One thing that no one has pointed out is that dosing changes are usually 0.25u (not 0.5u unless the dose is much higher, like 10u) and sometimes just a drop increase or decrease.
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Anne & Zener said:
Spooky, your beans are just trying to help you so you are healthy and feel good. I know it hurts but it doesn't last long. Wow, Kim, he is quite a challenge. I know it's hard but keep trying and it will get easier. I remember reading that someone's kitty purred through a test and I thought "There is no way that Zener will ever do that." but guess what, he has.

Do not ever hesitate to ask for help on anything on the board, but especially with dosing. We are all crazy about cats and want to help. One thing that no one has pointed out is that dosing changes are usually 0.25u (not 0.5u unless the dose is much higher, like 10u) and sometimes just a drop increase or decrease.
Liz, Zener's other mom
Click to expand...
Thanks Liz. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps his poor ears are just really sore? I know I wouldn't want anyone to keep poking me in the same small areas all the time! :shock:
However, neither one of us is brave enough to even attempt a blood draw on his pads.

Zener purrs when you test? That is awesome! Zener, please send some of your good testing karma Spooky's way. He really needs it.

I just posted again asking for help. I do hope these lower numbers are a good sign.
 
We put Neosporin ointment (not cream) with pain relief in Zener's ears after the last test of the night. That helps them heal overnight, almost magic! The ointment does help the blood bead up too. We tried the pads a few times, it was a disaster. :roll: And he doesn't purr every test, just once in a while.

Another suggestion. On the spreadsheet, you can make the column with the comments wider, so you can see more rows at a time. Go to the top of the spreadsheet and put your cursor over the right edge of the column, then press the mouse and drag it to the right.

You are doing a great job for Spooky. It's really hard at first but then you will start to see improvements in his health and behavior and you will be really happy.
Liz
 
I'm confused. Where did you post asking for help?

You also want to open a new thread (we call them condos) every day -- one condo per cat per day.
 
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