07/23 Ivana BG=61 Vet visit with labwork (and photo)

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

Last week's post

All I can say is: It's been another green week!

Ivana had her follow-up vet visit today, with some good news and some not quite good news. The tests didn't need to be as thorough as last month, but the essential kidney stuff was checked. Results are in the labs tab, but the gist is that her creatinine is down (yay!) but her urea/BUN is up (boo). Phosphorous is also stable (yay!). She doesn't need subq fluids yet, nor a phosphorous binder - we'll just keep her on the low-phos diet she's been on since her CKD dx.

She will be starting on Calcitrol next week, which (I think) keeps the balance of phosphorous, calcium and potassium in check as a preventative rather than waiting til we see a problem to fix it (I could be wrong, I haven't got up to that bit yet in Tanya's book and it made sense when the vet told me but I'm not sure I've remembered it right). She will be having more tests on these levels after two weeks on Calcitrol. Vet offered a test for parathyroid but that one test alone was $340 and given that it wasn't an essential test, I reluctantly declined and opted for monitoring of the Ca, Ph and K via bloods instead which the vet was perfectly happy with and said my money would be better spent elsewhere anyway (phew!)

Could not get a reliable blood pressure reading again There was one reading which appeared to be too low to be correct (60-something or 80-something), so I guess that's better than nothing but it will be good when the vet's Doppler machine arrives. Vet checked her eyes as a secondary monitoring tool.

Asked about the increased appetite, and yes the cold weather can make a difference in cats just like in humans. This week hasn't been as cold and her appetite has returned to normal, so I guess that's what it was.

Also asked about the nighttime yowling, and how it stopped for about a week after we installed the nightlights but that it's started again. Vet suggested it could definitely still be a vision issue, or it could be an age thing (dementia etc) although I don't think that's likely because she's still got all her smarts about her during daylight hours. It could be a blood pressure issue, and although it's common for CKD kitties to have blood pressure issues, vet did not want to prescribe blood pressure meds without an actual reading which is totally fair enough. She is going to look into herbal calmatives that won't interfere with any of her other issues and will hopefully help with whatever is distressing her.

Here's a pic of the Princess waiting patiently for her blood tests while at the vet today:

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Great photo!

I hope the BP equipment gets there soon! BP can effect kidneys so having that information will be helpful. It sounds like you're doing a great job of juggling the CKD and FD.

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

It sounds like you're doing a great job of juggling the CKD and FD.

Thanks Sienne! Slowly figuring out the CKD - I feel just like I did when Ivana was first diagnosed with FD... very overwhelmed! It seems like there's many more factors at play with the CKD, so I'm having brain strain trying to figure out what actually relates to Ivana at this point and what I don't need to worry about yet. I wish there was a board like this for CKD, I just don't feel the same with Tanya's email group or the Facebook group (although I don't feel like I need as much support as I did with the FD, strangely).

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

When Gabby was diagnosed with CKD I felt the same way. Tip -- Marje is very good with CKD and there are several other people here who are equally as good. Marje was a great resource for me. Unfortunately, FD and CKD often co-occur.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

What a pretty girl she is!
Not sure, I may have mentioned this before, but a friend's kitty was howling at night as well. Their vet said it was basically dementia and did put her on what I believe was an anti-depressant (I can check on that if you like) but my friend only gave it to the kitty once every couple of days because it caused behaviour that she didn't like (lack of grooming, etc).

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

Marje is very good with CKD

That is very handy to know, thankyou

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

a friend's kitty was howling at night as well. Their vet said it was basically dementia

Did your friend's cat have any other symptoms? I just find it weird that Ivana would only have dementia at night (you know what I mean). But heck, I don't want to rule anything out at this stage.

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Tara - just like FD, CKD is a chronic condition that is manageable. Some years ago, I had a cat with it that did surprisingly well for a long time - it is a big juggling act though - Tanya's site is such a good resource, and (unfortunately) since it is so common, seems like vets are pretty familiar with it. The night yowling according to this article - can be seen with hypertension.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

Did your friend's cat have any other symptoms? I just find it weird that Ivana would only have dementia at night (you know what I mean). But heck, I don't want to rule anything out at this stage.

It does seem strange but my friend's cat did the same thing....the yowling only at night. I will check with her to see if there were other symptoms!

 

[Karen & Lily]

I know someone whose mom has what they call Sundowner's syndrome, which is basically dementia in the late afternoon and evening. I wonder if kitties can have it too? BTW, Ivana is gorgeous. Is she a Russian blue?

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

The night yowling according to this article - can be seen with hypertension.

Thanks Carol, I'll have a read of that article tomorrow as I'm heading to bed now. If that's what's causing it, at least it can be treated so that's good.

It does seem strange but my friend's cat did the same thing....the yowling only at night. I will check with her to see if there were other symptoms!

Thankyou Judy, that would be great!

I know someone whose mom has what they call Sundowner's syndrome, which is basically dementia in the late afternoon and evening. I wonder if kitties can have it too? BTW, Ivana is gorgeous. Is she a Russian blue?

Wow, I had no idea there was such a thing! I guess it could happen in cats too. How interesting. Yes Ivana is a Russian Blue, and she thanks you for your compliment

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Sundowners syndrome - it has to do with approaching darkness and lack of sensory stimuli and resulting confusion - my Mom has it. It can definitely be a component of kitty dementia

 

[JanetNJ]

Last week's post

All I can say is: It's been another green week!

Ivana had her follow-up vet visit today, with some good news and some not quite good news. The tests didn't need to be as thorough as last month, but the essential kidney stuff was checked. Results are in the labs tab, but the gist is that her creatinine is down (yay!) but her urea/BUN is up (boo). Phosphorous is also stable (yay!). She doesn't need subq fluids yet, nor a phosphorous binder - we'll just keep her on the low-phos diet she's been on since her CKD dx.

She will be starting on Calcitrol next week, which (I think) keeps the balance of phosphorous, calcium and potassium in check as a preventative rather than waiting til we see a problem to fix it (I could be wrong, I haven't got up to that bit yet in Tanya's book and it made sense when the vet told me but I'm not sure I've remembered it right). She will be having more tests on these levels after two weeks on Calcitrol. Vet offered a test for parathyroid but that one test alone was $340 and given that it wasn't an essential test, I reluctantly declined and opted for monitoring of the Ca, Ph and K via bloods instead which the vet was perfectly happy with and said my money would be better spent elsewhere anyway (phew!)

Could not get a reliable blood pressure reading again There was one reading which appeared to be too low to be correct (60-something or 80-something), so I guess that's better than nothing but it will be good when the vet's Doppler machine arrives. Vet checked her eyes as a secondary monitoring tool.

Asked about the increased appetite, and yes the cold weather can make a difference in cats just like in humans. This week hasn't been as cold and her appetite has returned to normal, so I guess that's what it was.

Also asked about the nighttime yowling, and how it stopped for about a week after we installed the nightlights but that it's started again. Vet suggested it could definitely still be a vision issue, or it could be an age thing (dementia etc) although I don't think that's likely because she's still got all her smarts about her during daylight hours. It could be a blood pressure issue, and although it's common for CKD kitties to have blood pressure issues, vet did not want to prescribe blood pressure meds without an actual reading which is totally fair enough. She is going to look into herbal calmatives that won't interfere with any of her other issues and will hopefully help with whatever is distressing her.

Here's a pic of the Princess waiting patiently for her blood tests while at the vet today:

View attachment 21975

my 16 year old boy, Zimmy has kidney failure. He often meows at night but has for years... often when I go to see what his problem is he has a toy in his mouth. I think he just gets bored and lonely at night. If I acknowledge his toy "Yes Zimmy! You have a toy!" he will often stop for a while. hhaha He does have cataracts (vet said he's not longer allowed to drive at night -ha!) but we always have a night light on in the kitchen. Sometimes he meows at night if he wants more food too, so a little snack will quiet him down. At last check up his blood pressure was ok... i think in our case he just wants attention at night. What often gets kidney cats in the end is not eating... we haven't had any problems in that area (knock on wood)... Zim is a big boy at about 15.5 lbs. We give him sub-Q fluids once or twice a week to keep him nice and hydrated, and 4 water bowls around the house so he has plenty to drink. MaybeComfort Zone with Feliway plug-ins to help with stress. We have a multicat household (7) and can always tell when the plugins run out because things get tenser between them (esp. my cat Julie... who acts bi-polar without it!) we have one in the kitchen and one in our bedroom.

 

[JanetNJ]

Sundowners syndrome - it has to do with approaching darkness and lack of sensory stimuli and resulting confusion - my Mom has it. It can definitely be a component of kitty dementia

I have never heard of that before. does your mom keep lights on in the house in the evening to help with that?

 

[Carol & Murphy (GA)]

Not enough lights - I've been giving her melatonin when she goes to bed - to get her biologic clock set correctly -

 

[Judy and Boomer]

It does seem strange but my friend's cat did the same thing....the yowling only at night. I will check with her to see if there were other symptoms!

I have emailed her and will let you know!

 

[JanetNJ]

Not enough lights - I've been giving her melatonin when she goes to bed - to get her biologic clock set correctly -

does she not want to keep lights on because she can't sleep in the light? If that's the case, maybe she could keep lights on but wear a sleep mask?

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

Hi Tara!!
Ivana is so lovely
I am pretty sure my way of having treated CKD differs than many and/or current information.studies.
But I truly believe ECID and for us -Rico I honestly believe starting SQ before his values were way off has and still continue to keep him in normal ranges. We just went to a specialist and yet again the paper shows minor to no CKD
6 years on fluids which we started when it was not terrible but enough that my vet said enough to start fluids and slow it down-we never imagined 6 years later he would show basically normal BW-
I am not say for you to do this I just want to I've you alternative views and to remember ECID-
So happy Ivan has a solid remission!!

 

[JanetNJ]

Hi Tara!!
Ivana is so lovely
I am pretty sure my way of having treated CKD differs than many and/or current information.studies.
But I truly believe ECID and for us -Rico I honestly believe starting SQ before his values were way off has and still continue to keep him in normal ranges. We just went to a specialist and yet again the paper shows minor to no CKD
6 years on fluids which we started when it was not terrible but enough that my vet said enough to start fluids and slow it down-we never imagined 6 years later he would show basically normal BW-
I am not say for you to do this I just want to I've you alternative views and to remember ECID-
So happy Ivan has a solid remission!!

What is ECID? I started doing SQ before necessary too! The vet said SQ was in his future and I said well do you want us to do it with him at home now? And she excitedly said yes and that most pet owners were uncomfortable doing that at home so she had not suggested it. We had had a cat with kidney cancer about 10 years ago, so we were already familiar with it... and I figured if it could help slow down his progression and make him more comfortable and hydrated we were happy to start it before he was far gone. We are going to bring him for a checkup in a few weeks. I'm hoping to hear it hasn't progressed much in the last six months since his last check. (crossing fingers) He hasn't had any trouble with blood in his urine in a few months, so that's really encouraging.

 

[Karen & Lily]

What is ECID? I started doing SQ before necessary too! The vet said SQ was in his future and I said well do you want us to do it with him at home now? And she excitedly said yes and that most pet owners were uncomfortable doing that at home so she had not suggested it. We had had a cat with kidney cancer about 10 years ago, so we were already familiar with it... and I figured if it could help slow down his progression and make him more comfortable and hydrated we were happy to start it before he was far gone. We are going to bring him for a checkup in a few weeks. I'm hoping to hear it hasn't progressed much in the last six months since his last check. (crossing fingers) He hasn't had any trouble with blood in his urine in a few months, so that's really encouraging.

ECID means Every Cat Is Different

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I love the picture. Ivana is so beautiful. It sounds like you're doing a good job managing her CKD. I hope you can find a cause for the yowling at night.

 

[Judy and Boomer]

It does seem strange but my friend's cat did the same thing....the yowling only at night. I will check with her to see if there were other symptoms!

@Tara & Ivana my friend said there were no other symptoms.

 

[Karen & Lily]

Thanks Carol, I'll have a read of that article tomorrow as I'm heading to bed now. If that's what's causing it, at least it can be treated so that's good.


Thankyou Judy, that would be great!


Wow, I had no idea there was such a thing! I guess it could happen in cats too. How interesting. Yes Ivana is a Russian Blue, and she thanks you for your compliment

I also have a Russian blue, a 1 year old boy named Atlas. He is the craziest kitty I have ever owned. He was found on the side of a busy road when he was only about 2 weeks old. I think his momma cat knew he was mental and left him there. LOL

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Nice to see the Lovely Miss Ivana and that she is still enjoying the falls. I don't have anything to add to the howling, as I am not familiar with that or CKD issues. Hope you get some answers.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I know when people start to lose their eyesight, night vision is often the first to go. I wonder if that's happening with Ivana, and that's why she howls at night.

One thing to remember when considering subqs is to make sure there are no heart issues. Giving too great an amount of fluids can lead to problems.

It will be very interesting to see what her BP is, once you are able to get a good reading.

I'm glad Ivana is otherwise doing well. She is looking lovely, as always.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I also have a Russian blue, a 1 year old boy named Atlas. He is the craziest kitty I have ever owned. He was found on the side of a busy road when he was only about 2 weeks old. I think his momma cat knew he was mental and left him there. LOL

I LOVE Russian Blues!!!

 

[Mandarin'sMom]

know someone whose mom has what they call Sundowner's syndrome, which is basically dementia in the late afternoon and evening. I wonder if kitties can have it too?

I had an elderly foster dog a few years ago that did the same thing. He was pretty spry during the day, but at night, it was like he got lost in my house and started vocalizing when he panicked. He sometimes walked up to a piece of furniture, a wall, or my refrigerator and then couldn't figure out how to turn around. He was otherwise healthy, his vision seemed fine, and this never happened during the day. His vet also suggested that it might me Sundowner's syndrome.

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, it really helps to get some different ideas. I had no idea that there was such a thing as Sundowner Syndrome, but after reading the article Carol linked to as well as some general searching, it certainly sounds familiar. As far as I can tell, Ivana's yowling issue is either high blood pressure or sundowner, and I'm leaning towards sundowner. I'm not sure which one I'd rather it be One of the articles I read recommends coconut oil and chamomile tea for the dementia, so I might give that a go I think. I had no idea feline dementia was so common. @Judy and Boomer thanks for checking with your friend, appreciate it.

I know when people start to lose their eyesight, night vision is often the first to go. I wonder if that's happening with Ivana, and that's why she howls at night.

I definitely think she's losing her night vision, but given that the nightlights haven't stopped the problem, I do think there must be something else going on too.

6 years on fluids

Wow, I'll know who to ask when we start! Although I haven't talked to hubby about fluids except we agree that we will do it, from my own view I'm reluctant to start until it's needed. I would prefer to leave her alone as I'm not sure the extra treatment would equate to much of a life extension anyway, given her age. I'm not sure that's the right approach to take, but that's where my thinking is at the moment. Obviously when she does need the fluids, we'll do it, but I don't want to start early 'just incase' if you know what I mean.

It also really hit home this morning, while reading about feline dementia, that our little Banana Girl is really getting on in years Trying not to feel down about that, especially because hubby is away at the moment and I don't want to be a blubbering mess on my own haha I might go bake a cake to cheer me up!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I might go bake a cake to cheer me up!

The only problem with this is, then you'll want to eat it!

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

The only problem with this is, then you'll want to eat it!

And that's a problem because ... ??? hehe

 

[Marilyn and Sheldon]

She's absolutely stunning! The Falls agrees with her!

Interesting on Sundowners! My ol' man Spikey would howl at night. I'd go fetch him and he'd be fine but then he'd wander off and soon he'd howl again. Hmmmm?

Marilyn

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

It is interesting, isn't it Marilyn?! One of the articles I read said that feline dementia is becoming more common as cats live longer, which makes sense (same as humans, I guess). I've just sent my vet an email regarding trying chamomile tea and coconut oil as a treatment.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

that's a fantastic picture.....

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone, it really helps to get some different ideas. I had no idea that there was such a thing as Sundowner Syndrome, but after reading the article Carol linked to as well as some general searching, it certainly sounds familiar. As far as I can tell, Ivana's yowling issue is either high blood pressure or sundowner, and I'm leaning towards sundowner. I'm not sure which one I'd rather it be One of the articles I read recommends coconut oil and chamomile tea for the dementia, so I might give that a go I think. I had no idea feline dementia was so common. @Judy and Boomer thanks for checking with your friend, appreciate it.


I definitely think she's losing her night vision, but given that the nightlights haven't stopped the problem, I do think there must be something else going on too.


Wow, I'll know who to ask when we start! Although I haven't talked to hubby about fluids except we agree that we will do it, from my own view I'm reluctant to start until it's needed. I would prefer to leave her alone as I'm not sure the extra treatment would equate to much of a life extension anyway, given her age. I'm not sure that's the right approach to take, but that's where my thinking is at the moment. Obviously when she does need the fluids, we'll do it, but I don't want to start early 'just incase' if you know what I mean.

It also really hit home this morning, while reading about feline dementia, that our little Banana Girl is really getting on in years Trying not to feel down about that, especially because hubby is away at the moment and I don't want to be a blubbering mess on my own haha I might go bake a cake to cheer me up!

When Rico was dx at 11 I never imagined he would ever be 17. I also promised him that if he just hated it and ran every time he saw me I would not force it. After a week or 2 he was very ok with it and it literally takes about 3 minutes.
I am not at all wanting to sway your decisions and you know your girl best.
I would like to share a extensive blood panel done at a specialist this past Monday.
This is why I think that for us it has really kept his values in normal ranges.
Just a side note Rico has no heart issues which can cause fluid issues and you can over hydrate a cat. We did a flush of 100 every day for a week then reevaluated. Of course over time we have gone from about 1x a week to 4x a week
He has also maintained 12 pounds. If you would like to read the vet report pm me

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

We just started Mirtzapine as well for appetite and he is mr happy pants now !! It really is a anti depressant

 

[Tara & Ivana (GA)]

If you would like to read the vet report pm me

I would love to see Rico's report, thankyou!

he is mr happy pants now

So you have one Mr Happy Pants and one Mr Farty Pants