07/19/11 Zener PMPS 162;+2 124; +3 171 Dose help ATrak

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Anne & Zener GA

Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Zener's condo 7/18/11

Yesterday's wild ride summarized:

07/18/11 Alpha Trak 22 cycle at 1.75 u
AMPS 324
+6 182
+11.5 97 :o
+12 125 food on board, darn it, shouldn't have done that
+12.5/PMPS 163 gave reduced dose 1.25 u
+1 163
+2 110 fed 1 oz mix of MC and HC FF food
+3 112 fed 0.5 oz HC FF
+4 97 fed 0.5 oz MC FF with 1t karo
+5 182 fed 0.5 oz MC
+6 177 fed 0.5 oz LC
+9 156
+11 203

Today's story so far:

07/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food

I should be able to get a +3, +6 and +10 today. Hang on to your whiskers for today's ride!
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344

Hi guys ..yes yesterday was quite the day! I hope that your curve goes well today and it's a nice smooth ride! have a great day!
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344

Thanks Melissa and Michelle, I am not a big fan of roller coasters! Hoping for more of a nice flat day today. cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344

PeterDevonMocha said:
Hi guys ..yes yesterday was quite the day! I hope that your curve goes well today and it's a nice smooth ride! have a great day!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good wishes! I'll be posting on Zener's SS throughout the day.
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344; +3 390

07/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2, +3
+3 390

He much prefers the drama for his beans at night, the little rascal! He is napping peacefully on the bed.
cat_pet_icon
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344; +3 390; +6 316

Zener has been napping most of the day, guess I interrupted his beauty sleep too much last night. He went outside briefly, then ran in when the UPS person delivered a new box. For some reason, both kitties are terrified of the UPS truck and run under the bed to hide, growling all the way, even before the doorbell rings.

07/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2
+3 390 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+6 316 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC

No drama- rama yet today. ;-)
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener AMPS 344;3 390;6 316;10 269 late peaks? A

07/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2
+3 390 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+6 316 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+10 269
Zener seems to often keep dropping later in his cycle after his +6, any ideas on why this happens? confused_cat
Hope everyone had a good day and a quiet drama free evening on tap. :smile:
 
Re: 07/19/11 ZenerAMPS 344;3 390;6 316;10 269; 12 162 Help A

Hello all,

I hate to be in such a downer place, but we have been struggling with regulating Zener for 4 months and I am hitting the wall. He seems like he is getting worse and depressed and we are getting depressed and sleep deprived, and things are just so up and down, it feels like a losing battle. When I saw his +12 tonight where it was last night, and couldn't get him to eat anything, I just couldn't do what I did last night again - we gave a reduced dose last night and I was up most of the night. I just couldn't do it again tonight. I felt very overwhelmed with knowing that work starts again soon, and I will not be able to be as vigilant with testing and feeding.

It seems that he continues to drop and we either reduce the dose or stall which keeps making it later and later at night for shooting. I feel like I'm posting every night asking for help. We still struggle with getting him to eat enough, and he is losing weight and has peripheral neuropathy. I know ECID, but we feel so defeated with being able to get a handle on managing this.

Is it possible that a change in dosing could be useful, any help or advice is appreciated. Sorry to be such a whiner, but it is a tough night for us all.

07/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2
+3 390 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+6 316 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+10 269
+12 162 - gave 0.5 u, would not eat. Gave cypro, will check BG at +2 and continue to try to get him to eat
 
Re: 07/19/11 ZenerAMPS 344;3 390;6 316;10 269; 12 162 Help A

I would suspect he has a late nadir. Keep in mind, too, that some cats get a second dip between +11 and +12. A second dip is usually not as low as the nadir and is not considered to be a dropping number. Just from the numbers you had yesterday, Zener is coming up after his late downward numbers...that's what makes me wonder if his nadir has shifted to +9 or +10.

Today, however, is different. He is breaking a bounce today and sliding into his PMPS. Smart that you were on top of that because shooting a dropping number can result in a struggle during the evening. He dropped 100 between +10 and PMPS so you could possibly expect him to keep dropping; please be sure you watch that closely tonight. Especially if he isn't eating..hope the cypro will kick in soon.

Anne: try not to get discouraged. I know it's tough...we all thought our cats would be OTJ in a few months. We've been doing this with Gracie for 10 months and she isn't tightly regulated. The sleep deprivation is hard and it adds to the depression. There were times when I just thought we could not keep up the pace but we did. As you get more used to shooting lower numbers, you won't have to stall or reduce as much. But shooting lower numbers is not the same as shooting dropping numbers.....you have to really, really know your cat and have a TON of data to shoot the full dose on a dropping number.

You aren't a whiner. YOu've had a few tough nights and you're tired. I would not be comfortable giving you dosing suggestions but just want you to know that we are all here for you and to give you moral support. AND HUGS!!!
 
Re: 07/19/11 ZenerAMPS 344;3 390;6 316;10 269; 12 162 Help A

Hi Marje, thanks for writing back so quickly. It is just a very discouraging day, and not sleeping much recently has not helped.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I would suspect he has a late nadir. Keep in mind, too, that some cats get a second dip between +11 and +12. A second dip is usually not as low as the nadir and is not considered to be a dropping number. Just from the numbers you had yesterday, Zener is coming up after his late downward numbers...that's what makes me wonder if his nadir has shifted to +9 or +10.
Click to expand...
I'm just not skilled enough looking at his spreadsheet and numbers to really see where his nadir is, it all seems so inconsistent; and I'm not quite sure about whether it's a second dip or a nadir. He just seems all over the place to my eyes. I'm not sure either how to handle his doses and shooting time if he has a late nadir. It seems sort of overwhelming. :YMSIGH:

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Today, however, is different. He is breaking a bounce today and sliding into his PMPS. Smart that you were on top of that because shooting a dropping number can result in a struggle during the evening. He dropped 100 between +10 and PMPS so you could possibly expect him to keep dropping; please be sure you watch that closely tonight. Especially if he isn't eating..hope the cypro will kick in soon.
Click to expand...
I considered not giving him a dose at all tonight but thought that wasn't good either. The cypro has just kicked in and he ate about an ounce of fancy feast turkey gravy lover's. I can get a few tests tonight early, but I don't think my body will handle another night like last night and then have to be up and function in the morning.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Anne: try not to get discouraged. I know it's tough...we all thought our cats would be OTJ in a few months. We've been doing this with Gracie for 10 months and she isn't tightly regulated. The sleep deprivation is hard and it adds to the depression. There were times when I just thought we could not keep up the pace but we did. As you get more used to shooting lower numbers, you won't have to stall or reduce as much. But shooting lower numbers is not the same as shooting dropping numbers.....you have to really, really know your cat and have a TON of data to shoot the full dose on a dropping number.
Click to expand...
I am trying not to get discouraged, usually I am a very positive person. I guess my instincts were good on this one, but I really wasn't sure about what was a dropping number and what was a late nadir. I just don't know enough yet and no one seems to really know how a kitty with CH will do. Once I am back at work in a few weeks, stalling just won't be an option and during the day I won't be able to get home and test so often. So, it is hard not to get discouraged when he seems to be losing ground when we are doing our best. Maybe it's just one of those nights.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
You aren't a whiner. YOu've had a few tough nights and you're tired. I would not be comfortable giving you dosing suggestions but just want you to know that we are all here for you and to give you moral support. AND HUGS!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks Marje, I have had some tough nights and I'm very tired. Thanks for the moral support and the hugs, it really does help.
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener PMPS 162 Dose question ATrak

Numbers still dropping at PMPS, gave about 25% of usual dose

7/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2
+3 390 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+6 316 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+10 269
+12 162 - gave 0.5 u, but would not eat. Gave cypro
PMPS 162 - ate 1 oz HC FF turkey with gravy at +.75, had smorgasbord of food to choose from and glad he wanted to eat something no matter the carb level!
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener PMPS 162;+2 124 Dose help ATrak

Okay, now I get it....never shoot a dropping number. :YMSIGH:

I didn't realize what dropping number meant, getting confused with late nadir and whether Zener has one and well, just everything tonight.

7/19/11 Zener Alpha Trak
AMPS 344 23 cycle at 1.75 (with reduced dose 1.25u last night) ate 1.5 oz LC wet food @ AMPS, 0.5 oz at +2
+3 390 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+6 316 0.5 blue buffalo tuna LC
+10 269
+12 162 - gave 0.5 u, but would not eat. Gave cypro
PMPS 162 - ate 1 oz HC FF turkey with gravy at +.75, had smorgasbord of food to choose from and glad he wanted to eat something no matter the carb level!
+2 124 - ate another 1 oz HC FF turkey with gravy, 5 semi soft treats

I need a good night's sleep.
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener PMPS 162;+2 124 Dose help ATrak

Anne: bless your heart...there he goes again.

So when I look at his SS, there isn't enough data during the day for me to see when his nadir is exactly. BUT, Sienne will tell you, why worry about it because it likely changes and often in the same day. Long ago, I let go of the nadir issue because I couldn't tell when Gracie's was.

Now I try to look for the subtle differences between a second dip and a bounce clearing because how you want to shoot them if you don't have the data is different.
In a normal lantus cycle, you will see the kitty drop until he gets to a low point at the peak of the insulin, and then he'll come back up. If he gets a second dip, then at the end of the cycle, you'll see the BG come down at +11 or at the PS but it should not be lower than the nadir or the lowest number that he had during his cycle.

If the kitty starts high like Zener did today and like he did a few days ago, and then slowly comes down all day long so that his very lowest number is at PMPS, then he's probably breaking a bounce and shooting the PMPS will be shooting a dropping number. You could probably expect him to keep dropping even possibly at +1. This is where you have to use caution and really know your cat. If you don't know your cat, then you definitely need to think about shooting a reduced dose like you did tonight. The people who shoot dropping, low numbers know that they have to immediately start working to get the numbers up before onset. So it's also important to know when your kitty onsets.

It can be hard to tell the difference between a late nadir and the scenario above although people like Sienne, Jill, Libby, etc. can spot it. If it is a late nadir, then the kitty should start coming up after preshot and you will have quite a while until onset. This is what happens with kitties who get levemir. Take a look at Tess's SS. Lev kitties usually nadir at +11 and their beans shoot low PSs because they know they have several hours until onset.

It's a learning process. Believe me, if six months ago, I understood even the little I understand now ....I think Gracie might have been OTJ.

I hope you get some rest....I'm headed for bed myself. Take care.
 
Re: 07/19/11 Zener PMPS 162;+2 124 Dose help ATrak

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Anne: bless your heart...there he goes again.

It's a learning process. Believe me, if six months ago, I understood even the little I understand now ....I think Gracie might have been OTJ.
Click to expand...

I'm not expecting that Zener will get OTJ because of his CH making things more complicated. My goal is that he is well regulated and healthy as possible and if insulin remains necessary that's okay.

Thanks for the info and the SS to look at! I'll have to read it more in detail tomorrow when I've had some sleep. Just did his +3 and he is 171. So I am going to get to bed.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I hope you get some rest....I'm headed for bed myself. Take care.
Click to expand...
Thanks so very much. I'll get a +10 or +11 in the morning and see where we are. Good night.
 
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