07/16/11Zenr PM 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136;4.5 164AT

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Anne & Zener GA

Anne & Zener GA

Member Since 2011
Zener's condo 7-15-11

Yesterday's summary - day 2 of bounce
7-15-11 Alpha Trak 16th cycle @ 1.75
AMPS 309
+2.5 283
+6 343
PMPS 315 17th cycle @ 1.75 fed 1 oz LC wet food
+1 fed 1 oz LC wet food
+2 277 fed 1 oz LC wet food
+8.5 334 had eaten his LC wet food left out before we went to sleep

After all, it's another day - and the 3rd post-bounce, hoping for clear skies
7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295

Will get +6 and PMPS today, working in AM and doing weekend errands and such in the afternoon. Will keep monitoring and decide if dose increase is indicated for tomorrow. I'll post to his SS and ask advice before the increase.

Hope everyone has a nice Saturday!
 
Re: Zener AMPS 295 A Trak

Not too bad of an AMPS... I hope Zener comes down more for you.
Sorry about the pee issue last night/early am. Boys are so messy... oh wait - were we talking about cats? :lol:
 
Re: Zener AMPS 295 A Trak

Zener is looking good and you are holding him steady.

HOpe you have a great weekend despite work....
 
Re: Zener AMPS 295 A Trak

CD and BigMac said:
Not too bad of an AMPS... I hope Zener comes down more for you.
Sorry about the pee issue last night/early am.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! He has been having peeing problems for the last few weeks, started after I was stalking him to his litter box to try and check for ketones. Not sure how much is a behavior problem and how much is related to his high values. He was checked a week ago for UTI and it was negative, also he is staying negative for ketones. We've moved litter boxes to more convenient locations, changed to an unscented litter, made the entrance more accessible and so on and he still isn't going back in his box. He most often uses a pee/piddle pad, but all the indoor peeing is getting really old!
confused_cat

I'll be getting a +6 shortly and he may be due a dose increase tomorrow, only time will tell, or the magic eight ball! :lol:
 
Re: Zener AMPS 295 A Trak

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Zener is looking good and you are holding him steady.

HOpe you have a great weekend despite work....
Click to expand...

Thanks Marje, it looks like he is clearing his latest bounce, poor guy sure is bouncy! It is so nice to see steady values and I am really hoping for a lower steady soon!

The work I'm doing is volunteer work at our local Arboretum, so it is more fun than work! Hope you have a good one too!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener AMPS 295; +6 143 A Trak

Just when I think we are clearing a bounce and a dose increase may be in order - surprise! Zener hits his target nadir of 130-180! The drop from his AMPS to his +6 is a bit bigger than the last couple of days - where there have even been some increases at +6. Surprise, surprise, surprise!

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143

I have to leave for about 2 hours, so will leave out plenty of wet food, just in case he continues to drop. Maybe an increase won't be in order after all?
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

As predicted - SURPRISE!

Zener's PMPS is 136, so I have not given him an injection. We had this same thing happen on Thursday and stalled for an hour, then gave a dose. I hate to keep having to stall but his BG is lower tonight than it was then.

Any advice on how to proceed would be very welcome!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

Please take a look at Libby's post on low-pre-shots.

Basically, you have 3 options:
  • stall
  • shoot a reduced dose
  • skip
At some point you are going to have to deal with lower numbers. I don't know if that will be tonight or if stalling is possible for your schedule. At this point, I'd probably retest at +12.5 to see where Zener is at.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

We just tested at 12.5 and it was 175. We are using the Alpha Trak meter. This is where I get a little confused, since he is on the rise should we try a reduced dose and shoot now? I also am a little confused how much to reduce the dose.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

If I might add something, and this is in my humble opinion. You are using HC too much too often. :?

Dont use HC to encourage eating, use dried freeze chicken or Parmesan cheese or any other low carb choice.

As Sienne said, at some point you are going to have to deal with low numbers or Zener is never going to be able to heal. Healing numbers are green (above 50) and blue/yellow numbers. Keeping Zener from reaching those numbers might cause irreparable damage.

We all know that at the beginning is just HARD to deal with low numbers and your nerves are raw, but we all want the best for you and Zener.

{{hugs}}
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

There aren't hard and fast rules.

If Zener is on the rise, I'd shoot his regular dose. Remember, Lantus onset won't be for a couple of hours and numbers are likely to keep going up. Plus, as long as he eats, there will also be the effect of food on his BG level.

If you shoot a reduced dose, there isn't a rule like, "shoot x% of your regular dose." That would make it far too easy!! In addition, it sometimes takes more than one cycle for a reduced dose to take effect due to the shed.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

Alrighty then, and you're right about the numbers and the HC. We just get panicky, but we are now seeing peripheral neuropathy signs and have started him on Zobaline. So, we'll get another BC and see where things are and go for his regular dose. If he has dropped then I'll go for a reduced dose. Thanks for the rapid reply. I'll get a +1 and +2 after his shot and post all on his SS. Thanks!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 136 A Trak HELP Dose or Not?

Sounds like a plan.

I do think you need to get the learning curve under your belt. It takes a bit of practice to know how your cat responds to food. Those are important lessons and given Zener's CH, I think it was wise to learn how responds before he's in low numbers than when he's already there.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173 A Trak Stall & Shot

Okey dokey, pulled on big girl britches and shot the low number.

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food

We have been working to transition Zener from dry food to wet food and have had lots of trouble. We've used the freeze dried chicken and that helps, but parmesan cheese and other similar tips have not worked for us. We use cypro, an appetite stimulate, if absolutely necessary but are trying to get away from that. We also use the probiotic fortiflora, usually with good results. It's been a struggle to get him off the dry food.

We'll get a +1 and +2 and post. Thanks for all your support!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173 A Trak Stall & Shot

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Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185 A Trak

Here is the latest, so far so good since stall and shooting at lowest numbers so far.

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, 19th cycle at 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food
+1 185 - ate 1 oz combo of freeze dried chicken and little friskies chicken pate

Will get +2 and decide about perhaps sleeping tonight...
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185 A Trak

Okay, here we go!

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, 19th cycle at 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food
+1 185 - ate 1 oz combo of freeze dried chicken and little friskies chicken pate
+2 94 - has not eaten much since PM shot, giving 3 semi soft treats mixed in with 1 oz little friskies pate and he is eating

Looks like I'll be up awhile and testing again @ +3.
nailbite_smile
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185; +2 94;+2.5 84 YIKES A Tr

Still dropping at +2.5, so fed semi soft treats and 1 tsp fancy feast chicken florentine HC. Will test again at +3.

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, 19th cycle at 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food
+1 185 - ate 1 oz combo of freeze dried chicken and little friskies chicken pate
+2 94 - has not eaten much since PM shot, giving 3 semi soft treats mixed in with 1 oz little friskies pate and he is eating
+2.5 84 - still dropping, fed 2 semi soft treats, 1 tsp fancy feast chicken florentine

Putting the jug on for tea, looks like I'll be up awhile.
nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185; +2 94;+2.5 84 YIKES A Tr

Anne: you doing ok there? I think this is lower than Jill wanted him to be. If you can't get him to eat some HC, I'd rub a little karo on his gums. It's not the normal approach....typically this would be a most awesome number but if you don't want him this low, I'd get him up either with HC or if he won't eat it, with karo. But you have to watch him with the karo....it will wear off and he could possibly turn around. ECID as to how long the karo will keep him bumped up.

eta: Jill said this on July 7th
when you get back, we may want to aim for nadirs a little lower... in the 110 - 160 alphatrak (80 - 130 human meter) range in order to get enough insulin in zener to pull the whole range down
Click to expand...

Has she changed her mind? If not, you probably want to get him up. If he's 84 on an AT, he's about 54 on a human meter. I'd definitely either get a good amount of HC in him or karo on the gums.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185; +2 94;+2.5 84 YIKES A Tr

I am freaking out some. I just fed him semi soft HC treats and some HC fancy feast with gravy. Yes, this is lower than Jill wanted me to go. I stalled for an hour tonight, then gave him his regular dose at BG 173, the lowest number that we had shot before. He did not eat very well at his PM shot time and just now is eating better. I'm testing again in 30 minutes and see what happens. Perhaps I should have done a reduced dose. I hated to skip a shot since he has been so bouncy. Since he is eating the HC food, I won't try the karo right now but if he drops again I will. He acts like he feels fine, ran under the desk since I was following him around with food. He is taking a little bath right now. I haven't heard anything from Jill since I got back and should probably send her a PM tomorrow.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;+1 185; +2 94;+2.5 84 YIKES A Tr

Anne: I think a reduced dose is often more for the bean than the cat ;-) SIenne said earlier, and I agree, that often you won't see an effect for a cycle or more due to the shed. So even if you had shot a reduced dose, you might still be seeing the same exact thing happening with his numbers. When is your next test? I'm up until 12:30 ....I hope you get a number before then. I can stay up with you after that if you need the moral support.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86 YIKES A T

Thank you so much, the moral support really helps. My next test is at 12:30 and I'll post then. He just ate more fancy feast chicken florentine, about a tablespoon and I put some karo over it. Then he took a little bath and now he's sleeping and snoring. The lowest BG he has had since diagnosed was a 70 in May, when he was still on Humulin N and our pet sitter was staying with him. He was not symptomatic at that time, and doesn't seem to be right now.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86 A Trak

He's not at a hypo number. This would really be a nice number for a none CH cat to be surfing. I hope he'll come up a bit more. It's still really early for him to be this low.

I don't use FF. What is the %carbs? I would be giving him 18% to get him up. We'll see where he is at 12:30 and then you can let me know if you want me to stay up, too. I can nap and check in with you every 30 mins. I had Gracie up surfing but also have to check her at 12:30 and see if she is still surfing, going up, or going down. She's been keeping us pretty busy and up at night lately but I won't complain.

Be back at about 12:35.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86 A Trak

Marjorie and Gracie said:
He's not at a hypo number. This would really be a nice number for a none CH cat to be surfing. I hope he'll come up a bit more. It's still really early for him to be this low.
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Yes, I agree. What would you have suggested about shooting tonight when he was at 173?

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I don't use FF. What is the %carbs? I would be giving him 18% to get him up. We'll see where he is at 12:30 and then you can let me know if you want me to stay up, too. I can nap and check in with you every 30 mins. I had Gracie up surfing but also have to check her at 12:30 and see if she is still surfing, going up, or going down. She's been keeping us pretty busy and up at night lately but I won't complain.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the carbs are, I haven't calculated that before but probably need to learn. Just so much to know and I hadn't learned that yet. It is one of the elegant medleys and I've read on the board that they are high carb. I'm going to check him now, he's still snoring.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86 A Trak

ok..I'm back so pls just post when you get his number. Gracie is safely up but if you are freaked, I can nap and check back in with you. I'll wait for your number.

eta: chicken florentine is only 11%. Do you have any of the grilled turkey or chicken with gravy? They are 18%.

On shooting the 173.....when I help someone out there are two important things (1) safety of the cat and (2) comfort of the bean. It doesn't matter what I would shoot because I shoot low....I know pretty much what Gracie will do and what I'll have to do. I like to shoot on time and shoot her normal dose but I did have to stall 30 mins the other day to get her out of the 40s to shoot.

I believe Sienne was helping you out and she's very good. I wouldn't second guess her suggestions but it all comes down to you, holding the syringe, feeling comfortable. Someone said you have to get used to lower numbers; I'd PM Jill and check that out with her based on his CH. It looks like he can handle the 80s on an AT without any problem. But she is the best when it comes to answers.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, 19th cycle at 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food
+1 185 - ate 1 oz combo of freeze dried chicken and little friskies chicken pate
+2 94 - has not eaten much since PM shot, giving 3 semi soft treats mixed in with 1 oz little friskies pate and he is eating
+2.5 84 - still dropping, fed 2 semi soft treats, 1 tsp fancy feast chicken florentine
+3 86 - fed 1 T fancy feast chicken florentine with 1 tsp karo
+3.5 - 136

Not sure whether I should try to feed him any more or wait and see what happens. Should I test again in 30 minutes or 1 hour? Gracie and Zener are too exciting!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

With that rise, I'd test in an hour. I would think that the karo would be out of his system by two hours after you gave it. When you test in an hour, if he's still going up, you can probably take a break to +6 just to be sure...especially if he nadirs around +6. If he nadirs later than that, then I'd be sure I get a test after his nadir. You know him better than I do but the basic rule is two rising numbers before you quit testing.

I tend to be overcautious because Gracie turns on me in a heartbeat. She's at 80 now but I'll be testing her in two hours.

Are you ok or do you need me to leave my 'puter on and check with you in an hour?
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86 A Trak

Marjorie and Gracie said:
eta: chicken florentine is only 11%. Do you have any of the grilled turkey or chicken with gravy? They are 18%.
Click to expand...

No, I don't have any of those, but I will get some.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
On shooting the 173.....when I help someone out there are two important things (1) safety of the cat and (2) comfort of the bean. It doesn't matter what I would shoot because I shoot low....I know pretty much what Gracie will do and what I'll have to do. I like to shoot on time and shoot her normal dose but I did have to stall 30 mins the other day to get her out of the 40s to shoot.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand! Zener has been so up and down and all over the place that I don't really feel like I have a handle on what he will do. About every 6 cycles, just when it looks like he is nice and flat, it all goes wonky! I don't think I feel all that comfortable shooting low yet, but I do think he does better when I can shoot on time, so maybe a reduced dose is better than no dose at all.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I believe Sienne was helping you out and she's very good. I wouldn't second guess her suggestions but it all comes down to you, holding the syringe, feeling comfortable. Someone said you have to get used to lower numbers; I'd PM Jill and check that out with her based on his CH. It looks like he can handle the 80s on an AT without any problem. But she is the best when it comes to answers.
Click to expand...

Yes, Sienne has helped me often and she is great. I'll PM Jill and ask her to take a look at this condo and ask her opinion because of his CH.

And off to the store tomorrow to buy some more food!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

Marjorie and Gracie said:
With that rise, I'd test in an hour. I would think that the karo would be out of his system by two hours after you gave it. When you test in an hour, if he's still going up, you can probably take a break to +6 just to be sure...especially if he nadirs around +6. If he nadirs later than that, then I'd be sure I get a test after his nadir. You know him better than I do but the basic rule is two rising numbers before you quit testing.
Click to expand...

That sounds fine. I'll test in an hour and keep everything crossed that we can then wait until +6. He sometimes nadirs then and sometimes later too. I never really know what he will do, it's been very inconsistent.

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I tend to be overcautious because Gracie turns on me in a heartbeat. She's at 80 now but I'll be testing her in two hours.
Click to expand...
Gosh, Zener does that too! These two kitties must be related!

Are you ok or do you need me to leave my 'puter on and check with you in an hour?[/quote]

I think I'm okay. I know what to do. Thanks so very much!
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

Okey doke. I hope you get some rest tonight. I bet he will just keep going up.

Ni Ni.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Anne: do I need to get back up to check in with you?
Click to expand...

I think we are okay. I'll test in an hour. If he is still rising (or stable?), then test at +6. Test again in another couple of hours since he often nadirs late. If he is going lower, then the karo/HC again and keep dancing.
 
Re: 07/16/11 Zener PMPS 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136 A

Marjorie and Gracie said:
Okey doke. I hope you get some rest tonight. I bet he will just keep going up.

Ni Ni.
Click to expand...

Paws and whiskers crossed!
 
Re: 07/16/11Zenr PM 173;1 185;2 94;2.5 84;3 86;3.5 136;4.5 1

7-16-11 Alpha Trak 18th cycle at 1.75
AMPS 295
+6 143
+12 136
+12.5 175
+13/PMPS 173 - gave regular dose 1.75 u, 19th cycle at 1.75 u, ate 0.5 oz LC wet food
+1 185 - ate 1 oz combo of freeze dried chicken and little friskies chicken pate
+2 94 - has not eaten much since PM shot, giving 3 semi soft treats mixed in with 1 oz little friskies pate and he is eating
+2.5 84 - still dropping, fed 2 semi soft treats, 1 tsp fancy feast chicken florentine
+3 86 - fed 1 T fancy feast chicken florentine with 1 tsp karo
+3.5 - 136
+4.5 - 164

Will check again at +6. Gosh, I'm running out of room in the subject line!
 
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