? 07/12 Mačka not hungry all day :( Shot 1.5 - PMPS 508 +2 447 +4 268

Penelope and Mačka

Penelope and Mačka

Member Since 2019
Mačka lost his appetite today. He started with 1/2 can of fancy Feast this morning pre-shot, but after that showed signs of nausea. I tried all day to feed him and only got into him a few spoons here and there, sprinkled with Tiki stix (yes, this is still ok to eat).
I gave him Cerenia at noon. I will give him his fluids at about 4:45pm.

He is in his very highs, should I shoot tonight regular units?

Also should I feed him higher carb since he is barely eating?

Looking forward to your advices. Thank you.
 
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It is still an hour to PMPS? I would wait to see if he eats, even a little bit, before deciding what to dose. Have you tested ketones lately? With high numbers, inappetance, and recent DKA, I would be reluctant to suggest a reduced dose. Try the low carb food first. If he won’t eat that but will higher carb, try that next. It’s important he eat something. Did the vet suggest fluids every day? Maybe that will help his appetite.
 
I give him fluids every day yes. He seems a little better but not sure yet if he’s gonna eat. shot time is in 30 minutes. Let’s see now his number and if he likes any of the food.
 
@Wendy&Neko he ate 1/3 of hisFF can, but without pleasure. I could not give him more, even sprinkled with Tiki stix. I then tried one spoon of Beef gravy Lover that he ate. But again, no real interest.

I am concerned that if I give a full shot, I won't be able to feed him through the night if he does not have any appetite. I am wondering if I should do 1.5 or even less? Ah! this is so worrisome :(

Ketones tonight are NEG
 
The Gravy he had was 15% carbs.
If I shoot, I am really not sure he is going to eat anymore of it in case of a hypoglycemia. He refused another spoon just now :(
 
Shooting 1.5 won’t help much, as the depot of 1.75 will influence the cycle tonight. Eating half his food is good, especially if you can get a bit more in him tonight. He is really high and needs insulin.

Good to hear negative ketones. Could you note that on the spreadsheet.
 
Oh Penelope, I am so very sorry Mačka is having issues eating. I know how scary that is. I'm glad you gave him insulin tonight. I'm sending lots and lots of appy vines for him. I hope he starts eating. How often can you give the Cerenia?
 
When you post that -2, could you remove the 911 and replace it with a question mark prefix. This is not a medical emergency and I am hoping it won’t be. It’ll also help us keep eyes on you if you update the subject with his PMPS and +2 numbers.
 
PM +2 447.
So, it's going a little down, but not a lot. I am going to try to stay awake, and get a +4, I guess?
He was okay to eat a little spoon of low carb right now, just a little, not sure if he's going to keep it in. Fingers crossed.
 
Penelope I don't want to butt in and this isn't actual advice but what I do in a situation like this, to give me more control and to help decide whether I want/need to feed a little bit more, is to test say every 20 or even 15 mins and convert the rate of drop since the last reading into an hour and then compare with the previous hour's rate of drop. Then you can see whether he is slowing down or not. Does it make sense?
I (and that's just me) am always too nervous to wait 30 mins or an hour before the next test and this way makes me feel more in control.
Macka is still in safe numbers though.
Watching and thinking of you and Macka.
 
HI @Zorro's mom ,

thank you for the tip. I am not mastering this science yet. he's been dropping differently every day, so I'm not sure. Right now, the problem is, he's not hungry :( so it makes the whole night even scarier.

However, he's been at 183 at PM +5 and +6 so I'm hopeful the gravy helped stay in a safe zone.
 
Zorro's mom said:
Oh I just saw your updated SS and he has levelled out nicely
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I was too nervous to wait a 1 hour, so I tested at +5.75 :(
it has leveled, but I'm still very nervous. And he is not hungry.

With all the drops and bouncing, I wonder if reducing the dose wouldn't benefit his curve, in my understanding, less drops = less bounce, right?
 
Blue numbers are beautiful (and soon you'll look forward to them and to dark green, believe me I miss them!) so really, he is in a good, safe place right now.

+5.75 was fine for a reading, I would have done the same instead of waiting an hour - just to ease my mind. You might find that the next reading will be a bit higher already. However if it was me I would set my alarm and take a quick power nap for another 45 mins and then just check again because sometimes once the food has worn off they can still drop a little bit - but even if that was to happen to Macka now he is in a safe zone so I highly doubt that a further drop will take him too low. But to ease your mind, check in 45 mins again.
I want you to see this quickly so will start new message re you last question.
 
Zorro's mom said:
+5.75 was fine for a reading, I would have done the same instead of waiting an hour - just to ease my mind. You might find that the next reading will be a bit higher already. However if it was me I would set my alarm and take a quick power nap for another 45 mins and then just check again because sometimes once the food has worn off they can still drop a little bit -
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How long does the food take to worn off do you think?

His poor little ears... and he sleeps so well, I am sure he needs his sleep like I do, and I keep on waking him up! I tested at 1:30am, I'll test again at 2am?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
You have managed well this cycle Penelope. Well done.
On another positive note, Macka is responding very well to insulin.......a lot of kitties take a lot longer to respond like this!
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Thank you @Bron and Sheba!
I'm trying to apply what I learn here.
However, this is an emotional roller coaster, and not sure he's safe yet, since he does not want treat much today. Hopefully the numbers are going to go up from now on and I will be able to get some sleep (always the same story).
 
Penelope regarding your question: I still need dosing advice myself so I really have no idea or even thoughts as to Macka's dose. You'll see on here that doses for kitties vary greatly according to their individual needs. My Zorro has been diabetic for a much longer time than Macka and is on 4 units of Levemir so we are in different leagues entirely! :p Trust the experienced members; The SS of hundreds of kitties on here who they have helped speak for themselves.

I can just say that, I used to have the same thoughts and question as you have now: Won't it be better to reduce the dose and get him used to say, yellow numbers first, then blue, etc. My logic told me that it would reduce bouncing. However I've seen for myself that it doesn't work that way at all. Their livers are nót logical.

When I went off for a while and did my "own thing" and reduced Zorro's dose he díd reach higher nadirs, but he stíll bounced to black and red and eventually he settled in mostly pink, red and black. I think then some insulin resistance set in and basically I'm back to square one right now.

Let's trust the protocol :bighug:
 
PM+ 6.5 (2:20AM) 138 :( he's still dropping. And of course I'm panicking.

He wake up hungry enough so I gave him 2 spoons of mid carb and a spoon of higher carb (28%).
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
PM+ 6.5 (2:20AM) 138 :( he's still dropping. And of course I'm panicking.

He wake up hungry enough so I gave him 2 spoons of mid carb and a spoon of higher carb (28%).
Click to expand...
He's still quite safe. You could have given him ordinary low carb.
Remember you are in control because you are testing the BG levels.
Test again in 1/2 hour and we'll see if he's reached nadir.
He is doing really well! Be happy!
 
Bron and Sheba said:
He's still quite safe. You could have given him ordinary low carb.
Remember you are in control because you are testing the BG levels.
Test again in 1/2 hour and we'll see if he's reached nadir.
He is doing really well! Be happy!
Click to expand...

I'm so scared he will drop more and won't eat! I don't feel like I am in control at all, I feel like he's slipping through my fingers and I'm losing him This feeling is horrible.
Let's hope this is nadir this time
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
I'm so scared he will drop more and won't eat! I don't feel like I am in control at all, I feel like he's slipping through my fingers and I'm losing him This feeling is horrible.
Let's hope this is nadir this time
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Penelope, you are in control of the numbers and Macka is quite safe at the moment and we are at +6.5 and probably near or at nadir. Please don't waste your energy on thinking the worst all the time. Macka is a good eater ( and that is another real plus) and if for some reason he wouldn't eat and he dropped really low (below 68), you could rub honey on his gums, so there is always a solution. That is exactly what we have been doing over on another thread with a kitty that won't eat, we put honey on his gums to bring him up over 50 ( they were using human meter)Please try and relax and rejoice in the fact Macka is improving all the time.
 
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Thank you. I am going to read that page right now.
Sorry for being so anxious, it's the middle of the night here and i'm all alone dealing with this.
Is there a chance he could still go down after going up to 165?

I will test him again in an hour.
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
PM+ 6.5 (2:20AM) 138 :( he's still dropping. And of course I'm panicking.

He wake up hungry enough so I gave him 2 spoons of mid carb and a spoon of higher carb (28%).
Click to expand...

I have just seen that you added in the above thread that you gave some 28% carb food as well as the medium carb food when he dropped to 138.
Please keep those high carb food for when he drops below 68. They really aren't necessary when he is at 138 and in lovely numbers which are helping to heal his pancreas.
 
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Penelope and Mačka said:
Thank you. I am going to read that page right now.
Sorry for being so anxious, it's the middle of the night here and i'm all alone dealing with this.
Is there a chance he could still go down after going up to 165?

I will test him again in an hour.
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Penelope you are not alone, both Zorros mom and I have been with you and before that Wendy was with you.
I understand your anxieties, but you are sabotaging yourself and Macka when you give these really high carbs when they are not necessary, which happened last night as well.
I doubt he would drop after the 28% and being at +6.5 but if you would feel happier to test again, do so. But you need to get to sleep at some point to be able to cope tomorrow :bighug:
 
Yes, I meant, alone at home :)
I'm SO GLAD I have you guys here, otherwise i would be crying right now.

I am still not used to lower numbers as you know. This roller coaster is really hard on me at night with the lack of sleep, and I do things out of panicking. Thank you for reminding me. :bighug:
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
Yes, I meant, alone at home :)
I'm SO GLAD I have you guys here, otherwise i would be crying right now.

I am still not used to lower numbers as you know. This roller coaster is really hard on me at night with the lack of sleep, and I do things out of panicking. Thank you for reminding me. :bighug:
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I am so sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed by this. It is a roller coaster in the beginning and you did have the added stress of the plane trip and the DKA......so we do understand. This is what you need to do.
Try and get some more sleep...make it a priority! The alarm clock is your friend. Every hour you can grab here and there will help. And if you can get 5 hour sleeps that is even better. You MUST look after yourself.
Make sure you are eating properly.
Try and do something different to get your mind off Macka for an hour even just take a walk or watch aTV program. He will be fine.
Remember that the reason we are giving the insulin is so that it will bring the BG levels down. Have a look at other cats SS and see how the BGlevels fluctuate. You are going to see Macka with blue and green numbers.....that is what we are aiming for and they are the best numbers.....and by giving high carbs when he gets into the blues is just putting off what you are trying to achieve.
And remember the positives.....Macka is over the DKA and with you in the US.
And he is responding well to the insulin.
And you did really well tonight managing that cycle.
Here is a hug:bighug:
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Penelope, you are in control of the numbers and Macka is quite safe at the moment and we are at +6.5 and probably near or at nadir. Please don't waste your energy on thinking the worst all the time. Macka is a good eater ( and that is another real plus) and if for some reason he wouldn't eat and he dropped really low (below 50), you could rub honey on his gums, so there is always a solution. That is exactly what we have been doing over on the other page with a kitty that won't eat, we put honey on his gums to bring him up over 50. Please try and relax and rejoice in the fact Macka is improving all the time.
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Penelope, I am sorry to see this has been another stressful night for you. Bron makes a good point here, this is the whole reason we test, so we know if they are low and can take action to correct it. Can you imagine people that don’t test their cats at all? The first time my kitty went very low (actual hypo event) I of course freaked out, but got help here and gave her a little high carb and Karo syrup and she recovered quickly. The important point is now I know I can reverse it if it happens again. Take heart that if he did go too low you CAN do something about it. Lately he has gone a lot lower from where he started the day, but he has recently still been in very safe numbers. The time you would start to worry is below 68 on AT. I think part of the reason this is so stressful is he is starting really high and you see him keep dropping. The goal here is to get him to a point where he is more even from pre shot to mid cycle and not these huge swings. This is only an example, Let’s say he gets to a point his preshot is 350, then he may only get to 150 at nadir, still where you see him now, but a gradual drop because that preshot number was a lot lower to start. Not so scary, right?

Also this crazy bouncing hopefully will subside, sometimes it takes a few days if they are bouncing.

Remember the food trick Wendy mentioned about less food between nadir and next preshot? Maybe see if that will help him from spiking so high on preshots. I am going to try it myself!:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I have just seen that you added in the above thread that you gave some 28% carb food as well as the medium carb food when he dropped to 138.
Please keep those high carb food for when he drops below 50. They really aren't necessary when he is at 138 and in lovely numbers which are helping to heal his pancreas.
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Totally agree:) you are panicking when he is still fine. And by giving him high carb when he is fine, you might end up exacerbating the spiking. Let’s save the worry if it is needed.

***NOTE:You are using AT, so 68 is the number you need to keep in mind. If he goes lower than 68, that is time to take action
50 is only for people using human meters.***
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I am so sorry you are feeling so overwhelmed by this. It is a roller coaster in the beginning and you did have the added stress of the plane trip and the DKA......so we do understand. This is what you need to do.
Try and get some more sleep...make it a priority! The alarm clock is your friend. Every hour you can grab here and there will help. And if you can get 5 hour sleeps that is even better. You MUST look after yourself.
Make sure you are eating properly.
Try and do something different to get your mind off Macka for an hour even just take a walk or watch aTV program. He will be fine.
Remember that the reason we are giving the insulin is so that it will bring the BG levels down. Have a look at other cats SS and see how the BGlevels fluctuate. You are going to see Macka with blue and green numbers.....that is what we are aiming for and they are the best numbers.....and by giving high carbs when he gets into the blues is just putting off what you are trying to achieve.
And remember the positives.....Macka is over the DKA and with you in the US.
And he is responding well to the insulin.
And you did really well tonight managing that cycle.
Here is a hug:bighug:
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Yes, well said Bron! Also there is clinical proof lack of sleep not only stresses you out but does not help with decisions and it is not only bad for mental health but physical health too. You can’t help your baby if you are not at your best.

Do you have an iPad or smartphone? There is an app called “calm” that has some beautiful scenery and nature sounds that is VERY relaxing. Maybe a daily dose of relaxation would help you cope better? I only mention because I can worry as much as you do (about the cat not as much now), but everything else in my life.
 
Penelope, you did well last night! I have to say, I've been watching many spreadsheets here since I joined in November after Willow's diagnosis....And honestly, Macka is one of the most beautifully responsive I've seen as a newcomer! He's been starting largely black (which are horrible, unhealthy numbers he needs to get out of) and *smoothly* dropping into gorgeous yellows and blues! Wow!

I know the drop seems dramatic but that is because he is starting off far too high....As he is staying longer periods of time in those blues and yellows, his preshots will start to not be as high and so the drops won't be as dramatic...We say the curve flattens, because it does :)

We just needs to stay in those blues as long as possible, which means feeding lower carb food instead of higher carb. You need to celebrate those colors, not fear them! Red and black are bad! Lol.

I think you should not concentrate on the numbers, like how many points he's dropping, right now, because it's skewed and scary because of his too-high starting point. Instead look at colors.

Here is my current recommended guideline for Macka, will change as you gain confidence in your control...

Black.... Horrible/must get out of!
Red....Very bad
Pink....Much nicer!
Yellow...Oh, this is getting good!
Blue.....Yay! Celebrate! Let's stay in blues a while!
Dark green..Scary only because I'm not used to them...These are healing numbers!!! But because of that, I know there are many eyes on us ready and experienced, and able to help!

That lime green days ago was terrifying, but *there was no preshot!* We don't know what he started at, but from the red +9 he may have been red, low red, or even pink. *And* he'd been on a steady 2U so had a full depot of a heavier dose. But now you know where he's starting, and he's on a lower dose and responding beautifully.

Try to sleep some today, and encourage your own attitude of *hoping for yellows and blues*, and "maybe he'll even stay blue longer! If only I can get Macka in the blues, he will be safe there...Red and black are not good for him!"

I hope you rest, and I'm looking forward to seeing more blues and yellows on his SS tonight! With love, Nikki
 
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