? 07/11 Eddie AMPS 306 +3.5 88 +5 119 PMPS 461

@Wendy&Neko @FrostD @tiffmaxee

I may have to open another thread somewhere (?) about Blue, Eddie's brother, who is currently OTJ after acromegaly, but who was in hospital overnight. The IM vet, just called me and as I expected/dreaded he said although Blue has responded well to fluids, his creatinine is higher than he would like to see, indicating kidney disease.

The vet has recommended a renal diet and of course, the renal diet from the clinic is what he knows. I'm hoping to get some advice here on what would be a good renal diet for Blue. I'm not sure where to post or where to look. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thank you. Now I'm saddened to get this news.
 
Geez Eddie! Less drama please!

Can you post bloodwork? Primarily, what were phosphorus and BUN?

Probably unsurprisingly you do not need the renal diet, there are quite a few low carb low.phos foods available. @Diane Tyler's Mom has a good list.

https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

That's a good list as well. But that site is what a majority of us use as a "CKD bible", tons of information.

If his phosphorus was high enough (about 6 or higher, assuming same units used here) you will need a phos binder. But if his calcium is also high you'll have to be careful which binder you use.
 
Hi Jodey since Blue is OTJ weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com


When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pic of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Go to this thread , there are a lot of weruva foods listed here in post #3 , post numbers are to the left
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/kidney-disease.262271/#post-2940026

Down the road I had to start giving a phosphate binder aluminum hydroxide to Tyler's brother You would need to talk to your vet if and when it's needed and how much to give
You have to add it every meal
 
FrostD said:
Geez Eddie! Less drama please!

Can you post bloodwork? Primarily, what were phosphorus and BUN?

Probably unsurprisingly you do not need the renal diet, there are quite a few low carb low.phos foods available. @Diane Tyler's Mom has a good list.

https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

That's a good list as well. But that site is what a majority of us use as a "CKD bible", tons of information.

If his phosphorus was high enough (about 6 or higher, assuming same units used here) you will need a phos binder. But if his calcium is also high you'll have to be careful which binder you use.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!! I’m picking Blue up now so will get to this when I’m home!!!
 
Diane Tyler's Mom said:
Hi Jodey since Blue is OTJ weruva has low carb and low phospherous wet food
With weruva foods
You want the metabolizable energy profile percentage of carbs to be less than 10%, and the phosphorus which Weruva lists in Minerals to be less than 250 mg per 100 cals. So you have to look at two different places in the Weruva charts.
https://weruva.com


When you go to the weruva site and click on one of the pic of the food , click on Detailed Nutrition information that is under guaranteed analysis to the left
YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS

Go to this thread , there are a lot of weruva foods listed here in post #3 , post numbers are to the left
https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/kidney-disease.262271/#post-2940026

Down the road I had to start giving a phosphate binder aluminum hydroxide to Tyler's brother You would need to talk to your vet if and when it's needed and how much to give
You have to add it every meal
Click to expand...
Thank you!!! I’m picking him up now snd will dive into this when I’m home. So glad I don’t have to give him that “vet-approved” renal diet. I also feel more hopeful now. Thank you!!!
 
FrostD said:
Geez Eddie! Less drama please!

Can you post bloodwork? Primarily, what were phosphorus and BUN?

I'll post all the results when I get them by email but for now:

TEST. RESULT. REFERENCE INTERVAL
Phosphorous: JULY 10. 2.48 mmo/L. 3.98-9.84
JULY 11. 2.86 mmo/L

CREA. JULY 10. 324 umol/L. 71-212
JULY 11 307 umol/L.

BUN/CREA. JULY 10. 11.
JULY 11. 13

UREA. JULY 10. 14.1mmol/L. 5.7-12.9
JULY 11. 15.8 mmol/L

CA. JULY 10. 2.44 mmol/L. 19.95-2.83
JULY 11. 2.41 mmol/L
Probably unsurprisingly you do not need the renal diet, there are quite a few low carb low.phos foods available. @Diane Tyler's Mom has a good list.

https://felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm

That's a good list as well. But that site is what a majority of us use as a "CKD bible", tons of information.

If his phosphorus was high enough (about 6 or higher, assuming same units used here) you will need a phos binder. But if his calcium is also high you'll have to be careful which binder you use.
Click to expand...

Hope this helps. I know there's a tab somewhere on the spread sheet but I'm kind of dancing as fast as I can here with both Blue and Eddie at the moment.

Thank you, again!!
 
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Eddie - behave!

Post Blue's labs when you get them, we can help you. Your new best friend website is http://www.felinecrf.org/ Somewhat overwhelming in amount of info, but every question you have is answered there. I think you can still get it in book form.

Here is a list of CRF friendly food for diabetics. It's kept fairly up to date. Neko stayed on her raw food, which her IM called "the best food for her". It was also low phosphorus. If Blue is eating higher phosphorus food now, you might be able to start with a switch to low P foods, and add binder later. That's what I did for Neko for almost a couple years.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Eddie - behave!

Post Blue's labs when you get them, we can help you. Your new best friend website is http://www.felinecrf.org/ Somewhat overwhelming in amount of info, but every question you have is answered there. I think you can still get it in book form.

Here is a list of CRF friendly food for diabetics. It's kept fairly up to date. Neko stayed on her raw food, which her IM called "the best food for her". It was also low phosphorus. If Blue is eating higher phosphorus food now, you might be able to start with a switch to low P foods, and add binder later. That's what I did for Neko for almost a couple years.
Click to expand...
I was trying at Diane's recommendation the Weruva brand but NO ONE here carries the specific less that 250mg/100 cals and carbs less than 10%.
If I could stop feeling overwhelmed and find a brand in Canada that's appropriate I could stop hyperventilating...
 
Check out the list I posted - lots of options available in Canada there. There are Weruva, Tiki Cat, Identity, Rawz, Dr. Elsey's, Hounds & Gatos, Koha, all brands I've seen here.
 
Jodey&Eddie said:
Of course the particular Weruva variety is nowhere to be found. According to Weruva website, I need
either Press Your Dinner or Press Your Lunch...
@Diane Tyler's Mom
Click to expand...
How about any of these found it posted by one of our members
Also here is a list of foods for diabetics/kidney disease that was posted by one of our members
Here is a list of some of the food
As far as the food goes
For kitties with kidney disease and diabetes



. First number is carb percentage, second is mgs of phosphorus/100 cals, all less than 10% carb and less than 250 mg phos:

Weruva Truluxe Steak Frites can 6% 118
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen La Isla Bonita can 3% 166
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Meowiss Bueller pouch 7% 174
Weruva Truluxe Glam 'N Punk can 0.6% 180
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Fowl Ball can 4% 180
Weruva Classic Pates Jeopurrdy Licious pouch 4% 187
Weruva Classic Pates Family Food pouch 0% 191
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cattyshack pouch 9% 211
BFF PLAY Tuna & Salmon Shhh... pouch 3% 223
BFF PLAY Tuna & Turkey Totes! pouch 2% 226
BFF PLAY Tuna & Chicken Chill Out pouch 2% 226
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates Cat to the Future pouch 8% 235
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Pates The Breakfast Cat pouch 9.7% 235
Weruva Classic Pates Meal of Fortune pouch 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Lamburgini can 8% 236
Weruva Cats in the Kitchen Double Dip can 8% 248

YOU WANT CARBS UNDER 10% AND PHOSPHORUS IDEALLY LOW 200's OR LESS



Here is another list posted by one of our members
Weruva slide and serve pate foods Family Food (.97 phosphorus and 0 carb).

Jeopurrdy Chicken (0.97 P 6.1 carb)

What a Crock 0.71 phosphorus and 8 carb lots of gravy so she loved it.

Goody stew shoes 0.71 phosphorus, 8.5 carb. This one was a big hit

Weruva Steak Frites (0.57 phosphorus 5.5 carb although I take out any big pieces of potatoes to try to limit the carbs just a bit)

Weruva LA isla Bonita - phosphorus 0.77 carb 4.5 (used to like, not a favorite anymore)

Glam and punk 1% carb, 0.93 phosphorous.

Weruva paw lickin chicken 3.3 carb 0.82 p

Press your lunch 5.9 carb. 0.82 phosphorous

Bff play Laugh Out Loud chicken and lamb 7.7 carb, 0.82 phosphorous

BFF play destiny (chicken and duck) 0.87 phosphorus 7.7 carb

Bff play chicken cherish 0.71 phosphorus 7.6 carb

Bff play best buds chicken and beef 7.9 carb 0.9 phosphorus

Bff play chicken Checkmate. 7.7 carb 0.7 phos

On the Cat Wok 3.8 carb 0.74 phos

@Jodey&Eddie
 
Jodey&Eddie said:
Of course the particular Weruva variety is nowhere to be found. According to Weruva website, I need
either Press Your Dinner or Press Your Lunch...
@Diane Tyler's Mom
Click to expand...
Try this place I see they have the 2 you are looking
https://www.canadianpetconnection.ca/cat-products/cat-food/cat-food-all-brands/weruva-cat-food/

Amazon has press your dinner
https://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Classic-Press-Lunch-Chicken/dp/B07KNF5CJK/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20


Amazon press your lunch
https://www.amazon.com/Weruva-Classic-Press-Lunch-Chicken/dp/B07KNF5CJK/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

@Jodey&Eddie

They probably have a lot of the other ones too

It says they ship to Canada call them to be sure
 
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@Diane Tyler's Mom Weruva is available at a wide range of stores in B.C.

Jodey - the Dr. Elsey's are only at Petsmart here. The rest I've seen at various pet specialty stores. Pet Valu only seems to have the Tiki and Weruva. Smaller independent stores are better for the other options. Homes Alive seems to have a few other options on the list. One of my local small stores will bring in anything I ask for, so if you don't see it in the store, ask at the counter. I am lucky enough to have found a pet store in Vancouver that only supplies that only supplies cat products. :)
 
@Wendy&Neko

TBH, after all that, PMPS 461 is really getting to me. Am feeling discouraged.
Blue has to have a radiograph to determine if he can have dental. His teeth are really bad. Really bad. They don't want him to be under anesthesia for hours for dental work and are trying to determine what's the best they can do in the least amount of time. His dentals are so bad, he's in pain. I'm now giving him gabapentin. He ate a bit when he came home and a snack later but now he's not interested. I haven't seen him drink any water nor use the kitty box. I am so worried.
 
If the gabapentin isn't helping ask your vet for
Poor Baby
Ask your vet for buprenorphine it's an excellent home pain management option for cats
Google it
If he's not eating because he's in pain and really can't chew
Go get some baby food
91zJbBjmfgL._AC_SX425_PIbundle-12,TopRight,0,0_SH20_.jpg

These are the ones you want even though they say gravy
 
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Jodey&Eddie said:
@Wendy&Neko

TBH, after all that, PMPS 461 is really getting to me. Am feeling discouraged.
Blue has to have a radiograph to determine if he can have dental. His teeth are really bad. Really bad. They don't want him to be under anesthesia for hours for dental work and are trying to determine what's the best they can do in the least amount of time. His dentals are so bad, he's in pain. I'm now giving him gabapentin. He ate a bit when he came home and a snack later but now he's not interested. I haven't seen him drink any water nor use the kitty box. I am so worried.
Click to expand...
I'm so sorry about Blue! The bounce after today's numbers for Eddie are pretty expected though. Hugs and love to you and the babies! I'm sending love and healing energy for Blue and Eddie get off that trampoline and stop playing around. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Eddie did a spectacular dive this morning, definitely bounce worthy.:rolleyes:

@Diane Tyler's Mom All meat baby food like Gerbers, is not available in Canada. There are hardly any meat babyfoods, and most have veggies or flour/gravy in them. Better choices are things like TikiCat Mousse products, or even the liquid treats like Churus.

Jodey - the labs do show the phosphorus is high, along with creatinine, bun, SDMA and USG is low, so yes on the kidney disease for Blue. Looks like high end of stage 2.:bighug: If managed well, kitties can still have many years with kidney disease. Getting him onto lower phosphorus foods will help him feel better. Did the vet give him any fluids today?

I found buprenorphine to be a better option for pain than gabapentin, but that could be just what worked for Neko. If Blue's heart is too bad for anaesthesia, then the vet might have to start pulse dosed antibiotics. I guess the nearest cardio vet is in Langley, which is the best way to get a heart status. Are there any dental specialists near you?
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Eddie did a spectacular dive this morning, definitely bounce worthy.:rolleyes:

@Diane Tyler's Mom All meat baby food like Gerbers, is not available in Canada. There are hardly any meat babyfoods, and most have veggies or flour/gravy in them. Better choices are things like TikiCat Mousse products, or even the liquid treats like Churus.
I'm able to order the meat baby food from Amazon. Blue has been getting the TikiCat Mousse but it turns out to be high in phosphorus.

Jodey - the labs do show the phosphorus is high, along with creatinine, bun, SDMA and USG is low, so yes on the kidney disease for Blue. Looks like high end of stage 2.:bighug: If managed well, kitties can still have many years with kidney disease. Getting him onto lower phosphorus foods will help him feel better. Did the vet give him any fluids today?
I know the vet gave him fluids overnight last night. But here he is and is acting like he was when I decided to bring him in. I'm hoping he's just sedated from the gabapentin. I may have to bring him back.

I found buprenorphine to be a better option for pain than gabapentin, but that could be just what worked for Neko. If Blue's heart is too bad for anaesthesia, then the vet might have to start pulse dosed antibiotics. I guess the nearest cardio vet is in Langley, which is the best way to get a heart status. Are there any dental specialists near you?
Click to expand...

No dental specialists here. I'd have to come down to Vancouver (or wherever the referral is on the mainland). The IM vet was filling out the referral for dental today and they require a thoracic radiograph. I've asked about buprenorphine and may press on the vet again tomorrow; that is, if I don't end up taking Blue back to the hospital.
 
My kitty was given bupr for a UTI. She had a bad reaction to it. She became very agitated and couldn't settle for hours. I had not heard of that before but it was very uncomfortable for her. She does well with gambapentin although I understand it's more a sedative than pain med. At the right dose it can put her to sleep kaput.
 
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