? 06/19 Panzer PMPS 254/300 @+4/326@+6/307@+8/Dose increase Phosphorus Binder?

Chrispooky12

Chrispooky12

Member Since 2021
Panzer's #s are still running high, so I'm thinking increase to 1.75? He's pretty much acting himself. Trying to get my food, running & wanting me to chase him,bathing, peeing, pooping,being a butthead Lol. He's been laying in my lap alot here lately as well. He is the most stubborn cat I've ever had. He is fine with the mixture of BFF play chicken & beef with fancy feast, but he will not eat the weruva by itself unless it has fortiflora or parmesan cheese on it! Spook loves it & eats it however I give it to him. Unfortunately they are both kinda fictitiously eating since they have the Mirataz on there ears every day @+2 AMPS. I am going to finish up with the one 12pk of weruva BFF play chicken & beef & I'm going to return the rest. I then unfortunately must go back to fancy feast alone. They have not been diagnosed with CKD as of right now, but both of there bloodwork Panzer in February & Spook in April is pointing towards it. I would like to try a phosphorus binder with the fancy feast. Any suggestions are much appreciated?https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...ose-increase-food-switch.264440/#post-2962696
 
Chrispooky12 said:
I would like to try a phosphorus binder with the fancy feast.
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I started both Bandit and Budge on phosphorus binders in March when their phosphorus levels were really high (7+ for Bandit and 12+ for Budge!). I don't know a lot about phosphorus binders but my understanding from Tanya's group is that you start using phos binders when their phos levels cross 6. That having been said, you do want to feed low phos food - but if he won't eat it, maybe adding a phos binder is an option. Maybe you could post on Tanya's group and check?

I use Aluminium Hydorxide for a phos binder.

http://felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm


@Suzanne & Darcy
 
Christina what were their last phosphorus levels? Since I don’t think they were that high, I would start with a calcium based product called Epakitin. I would use just a small amount. Aluminum Hydroxide powder is the “big guns” and you don’t want to use that unit you really need it.

Maybe you should try another flavor after the return? Chicken and Lamb Laugh Out Loud is the favorite here. Or try making their food with EZ Complete.
 
Bandit's Mom said:
I started both Bandit and Budge on phosphorus binders in March when their phosphorus levels were really high (7+ for Bandit and 12+ for Budge!). I don't know a lot about phosphorus binders but my understanding from Tanya's group is that you start using phos binders when their phos levels cross 6. That having been said, you do want to feed low phos food - but if he won't eat it, maybe adding a phos binder is an option. Maybe you could post on Tanya's group and check?

I use Aluminium Hydorxide for a phos binder.

http://felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm


@Suzanne & Darcy
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Okay I just looked at Panzer's labs, he actually had bloodwork in March as well as February. His phosphorus levels were at 5.7 in February & 4.6 in March. He is overdue for bloodwork but he's had one thing or another wrong with him sine February, so therefore those numbers could be higher due to that & his #s now would as well. Spook was sick when he had bloodwork & a urinalysis as well. His phosphorus was 4.9 at the time which could also be altered, so no phosphorus binder needed at the moment. I will check out Tanya's group as well.I guess we wait until they are both eating normally & I can build some credit up in the meantime for bloodwork again. Panzer does have an appointment on Wed for an exam & the Spec fPl test for pancreatitis.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Christina what were their last phosphorus levels? Since I don’t think they were that high, I would start with a calcium based product called Epakitin. I would use just a small amount. Aluminum Hydroxide powder is the “big guns” and you don’t want to use that unit you really need it.

Maybe you should try another flavor after the return? Chicken and Lamb Laugh Out Loud is the favorite here. Or try making their food with EZ Complete.
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We commented at the same time there phosphorus levels are in comment #6
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
Christina what were their last phosphorus levels? Since I don’t think they were that high, I would start with a calcium based product called Epakitin. I would use just a small amount. Aluminum Hydroxide powder is the “big guns” and you don’t want to use that unit you really need it.

Maybe you should try another flavor after the return? Chicken and Lamb Laugh Out Loud is the favorite here. Or try making their food with EZ Complete.
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I do have a can of that flavor, I will try it. Can you use EZ complete in fancy feast or weruva pate's?
 
@Suzanne & Darcy I didn't have the the flavor above that you suggested but I did have BFF take a chance chicken duck & turkey. I tried it & he again turned up his nose & I had to put fortiflora & parmesan cheese in it so he would eat it. Of course Spook loved it! I don't know why Panzer is so picky he's such a brat :arghh:
 
Chrispooky12 said:
Okay I just looked at Panzer's labs, he actually had bloodwork in March as well as February. His phosphorus levels were at 5.7 in February & 4.6 in March. He is overdue for bloodwork but he's had one thing or another wrong with him sine February, so therefore those numbers could be higher due to that & his #s now would as well. Spook was sick when he had bloodwork & a urinalysis as well. His phosphorus was 4.9 at the time which could also be altered, so no phosphorus binder needed at the moment. I will check out Tanya's group as well.I guess we wait until they are both eating normally & I can build some credit up in the meantime for bloodwork again. Panzer does have an appointment on Wed for an exam & the Spec fPl test for pancreatitis.
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Still, if you do decide to start them on a phosphorus binder when they’re borderline high phosphorus (optimal is somewhere around 4)…. I still recommend trying the Epakitin before going to the full blown aluminum hydroxide, which I would save for if their phosphorus goes really high. Let’s hope it never happens!
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
https://www.chewy.com/vetoquinol-epakitin-powder-urinary/dp/102188?utm_id=401723849&msclkid=96d49c5854c21b291683fef7326b6003&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping_NC_Dog_HC_Health & Wellness_DDG&utm_term=4584688617391967&utm_content=Urinary & Kidney Care-Dog Vitamins Supplements
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Thank you, I have some in my cart at chewy. I'm not really understanding the dosing though. I'm seeing 1 spoonful 2xs a day for 11lbs & up. Is that correct? A spoonful would be a teaspoon? Panzer weighs 16lbs & Spook weighs 15lbs last time I checked.
 
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I have had very good success with Epakitin in the early days - with several different cats at this point In latter stages of kidney disease, I have switched to aluminum hydroxide. I would not use aluminum hydroxide until absolutely necessary. It is effective. It is constipating. It must be given at every meal and every snack. - every bite of food.

Right now, with those phosphorus numbers, I would wait before starting any phosphorus binder. I would not purchase it yet. I would keep trying lower phosphorus foods. Of course, Panzer must eat and that is paramount. I would wait a bit. I know you are upset that they’re not eating the food. Cats don’t always do what we want them to!

By the way, the spoonful in the Epakitin is more like a 1/8 tsp. It comes with a scoop in there that is about 1/8 - I just measured! But just wait. You have enough to deal with right now. I would not add it in just yet.
 
Suzanne & Darcy said:
I have had very good success with Epakitin in the early days - with several different cats at this point In latter stages of kidney disease, I have switched to aluminum hydroxide. I would not use aluminum hydroxide until absolutely necessary. It is effective. It is constipating. It must be given at every meal and every snack. - every bite of food.

Right now, with those phosphorus numbers, I would wait before starting any phosphorus binder. I would not purchase it yet. I would keep trying lower phosphorus foods. Of course, Panzer must eat and that is paramount. I would wait a bit. I know you are upset that they’re not eating the food. Cats don’t always do what we want them to!

By the way, the spoonful in the Epakitin is more like a 1/8 tsp. It comes with a scoop in there that is about 1/8 - I just measured! But just wait. You have enough to deal with right now. I would not add it in just yet.
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Yes I do have alot to deal with. Okay I will wait. I just wish Panzer wasn't so picky, Spook is such a good boy & eats whatever I give him but only because he's medicated. Can these boys live on Cerenia & mirataz for awhile? I have plenty of mirtaz now 2 unopened tubes & half of another tube. I do only have one box of cerenia & 1 1/2 pills in another box. Panzer goes to vet on Wednesday so I will get more cerenia then. I just totally tricked Panzer. I put the weruva & fancy feast mix down that he's been eating just fine if there mixed. He snubbed it right away. I said ok don't eat it & sat down & ignored him, he ate a little & stopped, I put fortiflora on it & he ate some more & stopped. I sprinkled an empty bag of fortiflora over the remaining food & he finished it, gotcha Panzer!!!He's such a brat!!!
 
Calcium based binder, like Epakitin, are not to be given to cats with high calcium. In February Panzer has a calcium of 11.0 (high end is 11.2) so close to upper end. I'd definitely run the idea of giving Epakitin by the vet before starting it.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Calcium based binder, like Epakitin, are not to be given to cats with high calcium. In February Panzer has a calcium of 11.0 (high end is 11.2) so close to upper end. I'd definitely run the idea of giving Epakitin by the vet before starting it.
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Thank you for that info @Wendy&Neko. I'm glad you looked & caught that. I will definitely hold off on it for now. Hopefully we will be able to do bloodwork again soon. As soon as we see the vet on Wednesday to check for pancreatitis, I will see what to do from there. What do you do for high calcium?
 
His calcium did go down in March, which is good. I would just be careful and not add calcium based products, unless the vet thinks it's OK. You want to avoid hypercalcemia.
 
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