06/10 Lexi - AMPS 160, +3 61, +6 88, +9 104. PMPS 68

Yvonne A

Yvonne A

Member Since 2020
I have had my female cat Lexie on Tight Control system for about 2 weeks. Yesterday I increased her dose to 2.75u. In the past week or so her evening pre-shot number was between 110 - 125. Tonight it is 68. It is safe to proceed with the insulin injection?
 
Hi Yvonne. You are posting correctly, it's just a quiet night on the board. Have you given Lexie her shot yet or are you stalling?
 
Hi Yvonne and welcome to you and Lexi to the fdmb. She is gorgeous!
Sorry no-one responded earlier.
Are you using Lantus insulin and what type of glucose meter are you using?
 
I stalled for about 45 minutes then gave her 2 units. She had a little bit of food which I'm not sure was great but her reading was 100. +1 and she is now 85. I will be up for a bit yet to do a +2 measurement. I will keep her in the bedroom tonight and I am usually up at some point during the night so I'll measure again then.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Hi Yvonne and welcome to you and Lexi to the fdmb. She is gorgeous!
Sorry no-one responded earlier.
Are you using Lantus insulin and what type of glucose meter are you using?
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Yes, Lantus insulin. I use a Contour One Next monitor. I am in Canada so I am converting my numbers to the US format.
 
You will need to test her up until nadir...the lowest point in the cycle to see she doesn't drop too low.
Do you have some higher carb food that you give her now...about a teaspoon of it to bring the BG up a bit.
You don't have much leeway at the moment.
I would get a +2 and post the number and I will watch for it.
Let me know if you have some food to feed her now. If you don't have any higher carb food, give her some normal food now.
Do you have some honey if needed for low numbers?
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You will need to test her up until nadir...the lowest point in the cycle to see she doesn't drop too low.
Do you have some higher carb food that you give her now...about a teaspoon of it to bring the BG up a bit.
You don't have much leeway at the moment.
I would get a +2 and post the number and I will watch for it.
Let me know if you have some food to feed her now. If you don't have any higher carb food, give her some normal food now.
Do you have some honey if needed for low numbers?
Click to expand...
Yes - I have a can of Friskies in the cupboard. I can give her a bit of that now.
 
Im going to give you a link. Within the link are other links which will tell you how to set up a spreadsheet and your signature. Both of those will allow us to be able to help you so much more. There is also information about hypos as well. Please print off the hypo sheet and put it on your fridge.
If you have any trouble at all setting up the SS just ask for help and we can help you with it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

If you are unsure what to do with anything post and ask me and I will help you.

However the Most important thing at the moment is to make sure Lexi is kept safe during this cycle. That means testing every hour at the moment to see she doesn’t drop much lower once the insulin onset starts.
 
+2 reading was 98.
I measure her glucose at 0,3,6,9 and 12. Her nadirs come pretty consistently at the +6 point and the PMPS.
I will continue to monitor her through the night.
The Friskies has some rice in it so it is got some carbs in it. I also gave her 5 temptation treats that have corn and rice in them.
I do have honey to use if she gets too low during the night.
Thank you so much for all the information and I will setup my signature with the information.
 
Yvonne A said:
+2 reading was 98.
I measure her glucose at 0,3,6,9 and 12. Her nadirs come pretty consistently at the +6 point and the PMPS.
I will continue to monitor her through the night.
The Friskies has some rice in it so it is got some carbs in it. I also gave her 5 temptation treats that have corn and rice in them.
I do have honey to use if she gets too low during the night.
Thank you so much for all the information and I will setup my signature with the information.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting. I'm glad she has come up a bit.
I would continue to test each hour until nadir, just because she is in green numbers. We want her to be safe.
Yes that Friskies should be higher carb with rice in it.
Thank you for setting up the signature. Do you have the correct date of diagnosis in ? That date is today:eek:
If you are feeding any dry, you can't really do TR....however don't stop feeding it until your SS is up and running so we can see the numbers as she may drop too far.
 
I corrected the diagnosis date - it was a month ago. I will work on my spreadsheet tomorrow and post a link to it. Most days she gets no dry food but some days I do give her a few dry kibbles if she isn't eating her wet food.
 
2.75 units is quite a high dose for only a month. What dose did she start on and how did you increase?
I'm not being critical...just trying to gather facts:)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
2.75 units is quite a high dose for only a month. What dose did she start on and how did you increase?
I'm not being critical...just trying to gather facts:)
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We had a rocky start. I started her at 2 per the vet's recommendation. She didn't respond much at all to 2 so he said it was okay to go to 3 or 4. Her numbers were still quite high - usually in the 300 range so he said it was okay to take her to 5. I started to do my own research and found a few sites, including your site with information on treating diabetic cats. After reading some of the materials I figured I was likely over dosing her and went back to 2.0. I had her on 2 units for 4 days. She had a couple of nadirs in that time that were around 85 but highs were still between 230 and 360. I did not have needles with .5 markings but I did my best to estimate a 2.5 unit dose. She was on that for 7 days. During that time she had daily nadirs that ranged from 65 to 130. Daily highs ranged from 200 - 335. I then increased her dose to 2.75 - that is where she has been for the last 2 days.
Yesterday's numbers: AMPS 276, +3 65, +6 89, +9 133, PMPS 127 | Today's numbers AMPS 179, +3 69, +6 99, +9 117, PMPS 68.

I was trying to follow the protocol outlined on this page: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Perhaps I have increased her dose too quickly?
 
+4 = 95 so holding steady so far. 2 hours from now should be her low point based on the data I have from the past 3 weeks. I'll monitor but won't post until morning unless I have a crisis. She hasn’t eaten but she does have some wet food available in her dish.
Thanks again for your help and I look forward to your feedback. It's 2:15 a.m. here so I will see it in the morning.
 
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Yvonne A said:
We had a rocky start. I started her at 2 per the vet's recommendation. She didn't respond much at all to 2 so he said it was okay to go to 3 or 4. Her numbers were still quite high - usually in the 300 range so he said it was okay to take her to 5. I started to do my own research and found a few sites, including your site with information on treating diabetic cats. After reading some of the materials I figured I was likely over dosing her and went back to 2.0. I had her on 2 units for 4 days. She had a couple of nadirs in that time that were around 85 but highs were still between 230 and 360. I did not have needles with .5 markings but I did my best to estimate a 2.5 unit dose. She was on that for 7 days. During that time she had daily nadirs that ranged from 65 to 130. Daily highs ranged from 200 - 335. I then increased her dose to 2.75 - that is where she has been for the last 2 days.
Yesterday's numbers: AMPS 276, +3 65, +6 89, +9 133, PMPS 127 | Today's numbers AMPS 179, +3 69, +6 99, +9 117, PMPS 68.

I was trying to follow the protocol outlined on this page: http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm

Perhaps I have increased her dose too quickly?
Click to expand...
Most cats start out on 1 unit of Lantus. The dose needs to be held for 7 days for the depot to fill. Then if the nadirs are too high you can increase by 0.25 units. Then depending on what method you are following, the dose is held for 3 days or 7 days.
If you were getting nadirs around 85 on 2 units you would have been better to stay with that dose for at least 10 cycles. it is normal for the preshots to be higher than the nadirs. In the beginning of the feline diabetes journey very few cats will settle down to regulation quickly. Most cats will have numbers in the 200s, 300s and 400s for at least a while.
Also many cats will bounce when they drop into lower numbers and then shoot up into higher numbers. This is normal behaviour for newly diagnosed cats. Increasing the dose is not the answer.
Cats bounce when they 1. drop too low, 2. drop too fast or 3. drop lower than they have been used to lately.
Their body panics and sends out an SOS for help and their body sends out store glucose and regulatory hormones into the system and the BG shoots up. Bounces can last for 6 cycles (3 Days) and there is nothing you can do about it. Increasing the dose is not the answer.
I would stay with 2 units for at least 6 cycles. Don't worry about the preshot. The nadir is what lantus dosing is based on.

If you are able to get some 1/2 unit syringes I would definitely get those. I know you can get them in Canada.. and it will be much easier to give the 1/4 unit increases if needed.
I'm looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet.
 
We made it through the night just fine. Her +6 reading was 100.
I will work on getting a spreadsheet setup today. I’ll hold her dose where it is right now because her overall numbers are good.
 
For some reason the response you gave didn't load on my tablet so I didn't see your recommendation to reduce her back to 2u. Her AMPS was 133 so I did reduce from 2.75u to 2.5u this morning. Working on getting the spreadsheet up to date. My .5 syringes were delivered yesterday so I was able to use them today.
 
Spreadsheet is now up. I have apologized to Lexi for the terrible management for the first 2 weeks. There are some comments in the sheet that show were I gave mid-day shots which I know are now a no-no and I am now much more regimented in my timing of shots. Before they were definitely not given every 12 hours - sometimes it was more, sometimes less which I've since read is equivalent to increasing and decreasing her dose. I wish my vet was as knowledgeable as you guys are. I wish I had found your resources sooner but I'm here now and feel that even with the low last night we are on a MUCH better path.

Lexi is no longer drinking copious amounts of water and peeing 8 or 10 times a day. Her appetite has returned to normal (instead of ravenous). Her coat is looking so much better. You can also see from the numbers that she improved immediately with a good regimine. When you've had a chance to look at the numbers please let me know if I should still reduce to 2u going forward.
 
Hi again!

It works better if you post a new thread every day. People notice the new threads more. Put a link to the previous day in your thread, so people can check what was happening if they need to.

Big voice: DO NOT feel bad for getting off to the wrong start. Two weeks isn't really long when it comes to controlling this disease. You did the best you could, and you searched the web for more info.

Right now she's doing really, really well! I'm excited that she's drinking and peeing less! She dropped down to 50 at +3 so you might get a +2 test tomorrow. You're doing a lot of tests and that's awesome.

Bron is an expert and help you decide if this is the right dose.

Here are a few tips about the message board.

You can put ? at the beginning of a post, if you have a question. For a real emergency (like hypo / possible hypo) you can put 911. These are on a pull down menu that says "no prefix."

You can tag someone by putting @ in front of their user name. Some people are set up to get an alert when that happens, so they know you need their help.

And of course you can PM someone by clicking on their user name.

I'm going to tag @Bron and Sheba (GA) because she was helping you, and because Lexi went down to 50. That's borderline hypo. Do you have a "hypo tool box" ready?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dont-panic-or-how-to-handle-low-numbers.210109/

Pat yourself on the back for helping Lexi so much. She's been all greens and blues the past 2 days, that's exciting! :woot:
 
SingsToCats said:
Hi again!

It works better if you post a new thread every day. People notice the new threads more. Put a link to the previous day in your thread, so people can check what was happening if they need to.

Big voice: DO NOT feel bad for getting off to the wrong start. Two weeks isn't really long when it comes to controlling this disease. You did the best you could, and you searched the web for more info.

Right now she's doing really, really well! I'm excited that she's drinking and peeing less! She dropped down to 50 at +3 so you might get a +2 test tomorrow. You're doing a lot of tests and that's awesome.

Bron is an expert and help you decide if this is the right dose.

Here are a few tips about the message board.

You can put ? at the beginning of a post, if you have a question. For a real emergency (like hypo / possible hypo) you can put 911. These are on a pull down menu that says "no prefix."

You can tag someone by putting @ in front of their user name. Some people are set up to get an alert when that happens, so they know you need their help.

And of course you can PM someone by clicking on their user name.

I'm going to tag @Bron and Sheba (GA) because she was helping you, and because Lexi went down to 50. That's borderline hypo. Do you have a "hypo tool box" ready?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dont-panic-or-how-to-handle-low-numbers.210109/

Pat yourself on the back for helping Lexi so much. She's been all greens and blues the past 2 days, that's exciting! :woot:
Click to expand...
Thanks so much! I am feeling so much better now that we are on the right track. I will start a new thread daily as required and thanks for the tips. I am so happy to have found this forum. So much great information and help.
 
Hi Yvonne. I would stay with the 2 units now unless Lexi drops under 50. Lantus likes consistency so staying with the same dose is best unless you need to decrease.
I would get a +1 and +2 again to see the lay of the land and what Lexi has in mind. I’ll watch for the BGs
If she drops lower than the Preshot give her a snack of some higher carb food to bring her up a bit so you have a bit of leeway if she drops at onset.
 
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