06/03 J.D. PMPS 343, +2.5 415

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Dyana

Dyana

Member Since 2009
Yesterday's Condo

Last Night:
362 PMPS (TOR)
358 +2 (gave fluids)
289 +4.5
246 +10

J.D. is feeling good this morning. At +10 (4:00am) he was chasing Ginger around the house and then went into the basement to make his mournful funny noises. I gave him a few freeze dried salmon treats to tide him over. I have noticed that he does this when he's hungry, you see.
At AMPS, he ate his 1st Breffis, took a bath, curled up with Ginger in the little cat bed, and I went btb.
At +1.5, he did it again. Chased Ginger around for a bit, and I watched her bite him in the back of his poor arthritic legs :o (right above the hock) in retaliation. She sometimes bites his poor poked upon ears :shock: and then he started to go down to the basement to make his pitiful noises, so I got up and fed them their 2nd Breffis.

J.D. may be feeling extra energetic and hungry because of his dose this morning. I opened a new box of 100 ReliOn syringes and the 1st syringe (that I used), had the zero line down almost 0.25 units! I took the rest of that package of 10 and put a rubber band around it (I can still use them for Adequan and B12 shots). I opened the next package of 10, and they seem to have the zero line closer to the top of the syringe, so I'll use those for tonight, etc, and hope the other 80 syringes in the box are "normal".

The rest is all pancreatitis/fluids info and comments, so you can stop reading here, if you are not interested in that.
From Last Night's Condo:
Marjorie and Gracie said:
Here are some of my thoughts after doing this on various cats consistently for well over two years. First, I wouldn't get too wrapped up about the USG. You have a number...it does show his urine is a bit dilute but it's ok. Once you start giving fluids every day, any USG test will show as dilute unless you stop giving them for day before you test. The blood values are really more important now. The USG you have now is just telling you that JD may start having some renal issues down the road. Like I said yesterday, I think his values look really great for a 17 year old cat. :-D
My thinking was that he was drinking and drinking and drinking and peeing and peeing and peeing and that was making his urine dilute. Since, he's gotten the fluids, he's not drinking so much and his peeing is back to normal again. I thought with the less water flowing through him, that the urine would be more concentrated.

So...one thing I have to ask is why does the vet feel he needs fluids...the pancreatitis? For renal issues, one would not normally start fluids until the creat gets to about 3.5. The best way for a cat to get water is by drinking it. See Above. He was drinking so much water, I think he was filling his tummy up and thus not wanting to each much food. The not eating as much scares me with a diabetic that I leave home all day by himself, who isn't feeling all that great, and has gotten into the 30s on a fraction more insulin dose. You can check to see if he is dehydrated....are his gums slick? When you pull up his skin around his scruff, does it pop back into place quickly? Check him against Ginger. I had asked my vet before if he was dehydrated and he said no. I have checked J.D.'s skin on his back, and I thought it was okay. This other vet I saw on Thursday, said he was dehydrated, so I asked for fluids. A lot of cats with pancreatitis get anti-nausea, pepcid, pain, and appetite stimulant pills, plus B12 and fluids.
J.D. was not getting fluids, and so I guess he was drinking so much to help himself :?:

If you are giving fluids for pancreatitis....here is some additional info.

There should have been a little cap on the needle end of the line. You remove it to put the needle on. This is what I leave on my line in between giving fluids. I never leave a needle on my line. I am very careful with the cap to make sure it touches nothing but the line. No cap, this time as the vet prepared the set up for me and must have thrown it out. I use one line per two bags. When you hang your bag, take the cap off of it, run a little bit of the LRS into a little glass to purge the line. Then put on the needle. Then mark your bag while you are looking straight on at it for where you want to take it down to. Once you are done giving fluids, take off the needle, purge the line again (just a small amount) I purged it for the first time last night before I gave fluids only. In the future, I will purge everytime before and after giving fluids..thanks.. , put the cap back on the line, needle in sharps container.

Pretty soon, you'll it without thinking about it.

Vets typically charge a lot more for bags, lines, and needles. You can call thrivingpets and see if you need a script. I don't need one in AZ for any of it including bags.

I hope this helps.
Click to expand...
I'll have to call my vet tomorrow and ask him to explain to me why he wanted me to give the fluids every other day. He explained the difference between giving everyday and every other day, and I just can't remember..weird.


We're off to tbp, today, in a little over an hour from now.

I hope everyone has a good day.
 
Re: 06/03 J.D. AMPS 344, +2 328 - long.

punkin makes that mournful howl sound too - and anya as well. i think both of them do it when they think they are alone, but am never sure what it means. anya will change from the mournful howl to the normal kitty cry once you talk to her.

i hope JD is feeling perkier soon. the discussion on the fluids is interesting. punkin's urine is less concentrated as well and i thought the same thing you did about him drinking a lot, but the vet said it's unrelated to how much they drink. it's only about what the kidneys do with it.
 
Re: 06/03 J.D. AMPS 344, +2 328 - long.

Dyana, how are his gums? If sore that may cause him to drink more water.

I've had entire packs of UltiCare syringes that aren't marked accurately. I did the same thing, saved them for adequan, but I also took inventory and was planning to contact the vendor. Since you still have them I would note the lot# and contact them, they may send you replacements.
 
Re: 06/03 J.D. AMPS 344, +2 328, +4.25 252

I'm just checking in to see how J.D. is feeling today. Glad to hear he is feeling playful. :smile:

The syringe thing is annoying. I remember when Lucy was going OTJ that I had a whole box of mostly bad syringes. I pulled out every syringe and examined it, and was able to use about 1 out of every 5. That is when she was down to teeny doses so I figured every drop counts and I had to be extra picky. I wonder how many bad syringes I had before but never looked closely enough to notice.
 
Re: 06/03 J.D. AMPS 344, +2 328, +4.25 252

Dyana said:
Marjorie and Gracie said:
Here are some of my thoughts after doing this on various cats consistently for well over two years. First, I wouldn't get too wrapped up about the USG. You have a number...it does show his urine is a bit dilute but it's ok. Once you start giving fluids every day, any USG test will show as dilute unless you stop giving them for day before you test. The blood values are really more important now. The USG you have now is just telling you that JD may start having some renal issues down the road. Like I said yesterday, I think his values look really great for a 17 year old cat. :-D
My thinking was that he was drinking and drinking and drinking and peeing and peeing and peeing and that was making his urine dilute. Since, he's gotten the fluids, he's not drinking so much and his peeing is back to normal again. I thought with the less water flowing through him, that the urine would be more concentrated.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the drinking and peeing are not so much making his urine dilute, as having dilute urine is making him pee and drink more. Cats evolved from a desert background, and are normally very good at concentrating urine. This allows them to filter out the waste material from the blood, yet conserve water. Once a kidney starts to lose its function, it becomes less able to concentrate urine (i.e. the urine becomes more dilute), and more fluid is lost in the waste filtering process. The excess urination causes excess thirst. Normally the cat can find a balance. I think the vet started J.D. on fluids because he was clinically dehydrated despite the increased amount of drinking. The sub Q fluids may be making him feel more comfortable and helping his hydration. The extra fluid also has to be processed by the kidneys, so Marjorie is correct in pointing out that you don't want to give fluids if they are not needed. You may find that once his is feeling back to normal, you may be able to gradually reduce the amount and/or frequency of fluids.

The physiology of kidney function is fairly complicated,with a lot of feedback mechanisms, and I am not an expert on it. There is also the complicating factor of glucose in the urine, which also contributes to PU/PD. Marjorie has a lot of experience with renal issues, and she raises good points.
 
Re: 06/03 J.D. AMPS 344, +2 328, +4.25 252

Hi Dyana:)

Glad to hear that JD is feeling a bit more energetic and playful :smile: The fluids sounds like they are benefiting him.
 
J.D. drank about 4oz of water, late in the afternoon, at work today. Normally, he does not touch his water bowl.

Here's his day:
344 AMPS
328 +2
252 +4.25
218 +6.25
189 +7.5
181 +8.5
194 +10.25
343 PMP
415 +2.5
Why he has to soar up, I don't know.

When we returned home from work at +2, J.D. did not go to his water fountain. I have not seen him go to it yet.
He had his 1st Dinner at work, and his 2nd Dinner at +2.5 while I tried to give him the proper amount of fluids.
I did better :smile: I marked the bag at what I thought was 75ml, and while sitting on the floor I watched the fluids go down and stopped it when I thought it was at the mark. I missed again, but this time I gave him 50ml, instead of only 25ml like last night.

J.D. still seems in a pretty good mood. While I was on the computer, after work, here at home, and eating my dinner at the keyboard :oops: he jumped up onto my desk to see if he could mooch any food from me. Yes, he got some.
And, he just ate his 3rd dinner, and has been taking a bath for at least what seems like 10 minutes.
and he still hasn't touched his water fountain. Now, Ginger has joined him in his bed, and they are licking each other's faces. They are sooo cute :razz:
 
Hi Dyana, I didn't read all the pancreas stuff and I wish you didn't have to deal with that, it sounds like a hard thing to deal with. But very nice to see that J.D. is feeling energetic and playful. Daphne is never energetic and not very playful, but may be its because there aren't other kitties to play with. Even though Ginger bites his poor little ear, I think they still would rather that then not have a play mate.

Thanks for visiting our condo, have a good night!
 
Dyana
I'm glad JD is eating and acting in a good mood :-D

Linda is correct. When kidneys are functioning correctly, a cat can drink a lot and pee alot and still have a normal USG. She explained it very well. My CKD kitty, Gus, gets 125 mls of fluid/day. Some days he drinks a lot of water. He always pees alot. But his USG is really stable at 1.026. And that is with him getting fluids. I don't know if that helps or not :-D

I can see why you would be worried that he was drinking so much that he wouldn't eat. I think if he needs supportive fluids for any pancreatitis, it's one thing. But if he isn't dehydrated and he is eating/drinking on his own....I'm not sure I'd be giving fluids. JMHO. You know him best and you know how he reacts to getting them vs not getting them.
 
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