05/26 Need advice

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Mom-Mom

Mom-Mom

Member Since 2014
A few days ago was a pretty good day for Mom-mom. However, she has been on hi since then. She has been walking around and playing, I even switched her to Newman's Own Organic food and she loves it. My husband suggested a .25 raise since the 1.50 has not been doing much good. I gave it to her this morning, she is humming and purring at the same time. She did that before, she likes to humm. I am worried about her so I tested again and she is still on hi. She didnt eat that much this morning. I accidentally poked myself this morning but, I dont THINK I wasted any. Should I be worried, becuase I am cryin my eyes out thinking she is dying.
She is CONSTANTLY drinking water. Can this be diluting the meds??? Should I take her water away for a little while every day? She is ALWAYS there.

Advice anyone, please ???!!!
Its right before PMPS and she is 235. What do I do? Not sure how much to give :? :?
 
Always have fresh water available for her to drink. Dehydration can make her very ill.

Have been on the same dose for 3 or more full days (6 shot cycles at least)?
- If yes, have the nadirs been above 150 mg/dL?
- - If yes, You might increase 0.25 units.

Have you seen any vomiting, diarrhea, goopy eyes/nose, blood urine, strainingto pee, or evidence of dehydration?
- if yes, she may have another condition on top of, or related to the diabetes and need to see a vet.

I'm on my phone to view this; I'll take a look at your spreadsheet when I'm on my PC, as my Android phone doesn't always work with Google Drive.

OK, have looked at your spreadsheet.
- on 5/17, I think you misplaced the decimal point on her dose of 1.25, as I doubt you gave her 125 units.
- whenever you get a test that seems unusually low, test again to make sure it was a good test - ex 5/19
- - if the test IS low on re-test, stall 30 min without feeding and retest. If rising, it is probably safe to shoot IF you can be home to monitor her and feed as needed.
- I think I am seeing a pattern of high pre-shots and then a sudden low pre-shot. Someone really, really experienced with Lantus should take a look, as this might (only might) indicate too much insulin. ex 5/25 evening, 5/16 morning.
- - You indicate she is non-stop eating since the tooth was pulled. Is she at a good weight, underweight, or overweight? Are you feeding her meals, several mini-meals, or letting her nibble? She may be eating like mad to keep up with the insulin dose. This is something to discuss with very experienced Lantus users.
 
Hi Laura and Mom Mom!! I am new to all of this and can't give advice, but I just want to say hello and offer some hugs from me and Billie. I do know that keeping fresh water out all the time is necessary like BJM said. Don't worry, you're in wonderful hands here, and everything will get sorted out!
 
Hello,

Definitely don't take away the water! I'd also suggest not skipping any shots even if the numbers look normal. With her high values, I think you will be working upwards for a little while yet on the dosing. Please stay consistent - she really needs to see some normal values otherwise she is going to get much sicker. Every time you see a normal value, you seem to skip the shot. You're then depleting the shed and have to start over again. I know it's scary! I have the same fear when I shoot a good number...

Sophia
 
Hi Laura!

I would have kept the 1.5u dose for at least 3 more days. She had pretty good values with that dose and we know the small increase of 0.25u takes time to start showing on their levels. She went high again, but do not forget that you skipped one dose, and that matters a lot. The experts at this forum told me so many times, be consistent! Try to give the shot every 12h and avoid skipping shots. It's scary to shoot when their BG is lower than usual, but what I was doing was delaying for 1 or 2 hours the shooting time and waiting my cat values to rise up again. Then I would shoot. If I were you I'd go back tonight again to the 1.5u dose and see what it does to Mom Mom for at least the next 2/3 days, but I hope someone more experienced can give you some advice.

Have a great day!
Cristina
 
Laura, definitely don't take the water away. It is not diluting the insulin.

Mom-Mom is probably still recovering from the skipped shot a few cycles ago. Her depot drained from that skipped shot and it has been filling back up. She's also probably still bouncing from the low numbers she saw. It can take 3 days for a bounce to clear. I probably wouldn't have raised her dose so soon, but I know seeing those HI numbers makes waiting seen interminable. Keep an eye on her. She may come down quickly when the bounce clears, especially with the dose increase.

~Suzanne
 
Morning Laura,

The first thing is let's work on consistency.
You gave her 1.75u ... and we will work with that for now.... I would have preferred we stick with the 1.5 ...

It seems as if you are reacting to the preshot number to decide on what to give each day. You don't base the dose on the preshot, its based on the lowest point of the cycle. Lantus is a depot type of insulin, which means it builds up in the body and slowly releases. that helps to control the BGs and ideally, once you get to a good dose, it will hold them as flat as possible.
You had a glimpse of it working the other day when you saw a green number.
It looks like you found a good dose to work with.....

So when you see a number that scares you like that, post here and ask what to do especially if it is shot time or almost shot time.
Make sure you have a print out of this page How to treat a hypo event just in case the internet
is down.

There is usually someone here that can help hold your hand and give you instructions.

It is possible that you will see some green numbers again with that higher dose you gave..... just like the other day so please test.

Just breathe.....
we will help get Mom-mom out of that high zone so she will feel better.

Hugs!
 
I was wondering if you had considered using something like Go Fund Me to see if it could help raise some money to treat Mom-mom. Maybe you and your husband could check it out and see if it would be helpful.
 
Laura, sometimes I can't tell if you have read people's replies to your posts. it would be good if you could comment and ask questions on things people have said to you.

you shouldn't have increased the dose this morning - the dose isn't decided by how high she is, but by how LOW a dose will take her. The 1.5u made it so that you couldn't shoot night before last, so 1.5u is a good place to stay.

There is a saying here that "Lantus likes consistency." we count how many shots we give on any particular dose. when you skipped the shot the other night, it reset Mom Mom's count. Increasing this morning resets the count again. She needs 6 shots at 1.5u before you consider changing it. Dose hopping - going from 1 to 1.5 to skipping to 1.5 to 1.75 all within 6 shots will make her numbers wonky. Go back to 1.5u tonight and hold it there for at least 6 shots so we can see what it does. So don't change the dose until Thursday morning unless she goes below 50.

Are you having any luck with figuring out how to get her 2 broken teeth taken care of?

Hang in there! It's hard for everyone in the beginning and it will get easier! keep asking for advice before you shoot if you have any hesitations on shooting the 1.5u. hugs!
 
Mom-mom is drinking a lot because of the high blood glucose levels. As she becomes regulated she will drink less. Drinking more now is not diluting the insulin, it is helping it! Drinking and peeing a lot helps to flush extra glucose out through the urine.

I know it doesn't make sense, but often when we increase the dose numbers will go up for a few cycles! We call it New Dose Wonkiness (NDW) and it is because the shed is bulding up for the new dose and is using more of what you shoot for that. This is why whenever we increase a dose we HOLD FOR 6 CYCLES, unless the BGs drop too low. Every time the dose is changed or skipped it takes up to 6 cycles for the shed to adjust, every time! I know you have a lot of frustration right now, but you have to breathe, and let the Lantus work the way it is intended to work. Learning to be patient is one of the hardest lessons we have to learn.

It may help you to get used to shooting lower numbers to get an extra test one or two hours before the shot. It will give you time to post and get a response and some hand holding to get used to those lower numbers. That is the goal after all.
 
I did NOT take the water away, I dont know what I was thinking, OMG thats really cruel. Anyway, I just get so confused still have so much to learn. I have only been familiar with this disease for a few months now. I am reading as much as I possibly can, knowledge is the only power I have at this point. Its just when I keep on CONSISTANTLY seeing Hi, I literally fall apart.
This cat (which by the way looks just like Billie) LOL well, she is like my child. If she doesnt eat, neither do I. I Thank all of you for your input and I read every single one. Sometimes I get conflicting advice. The 1.50 did not work for me, and I held it for a while. I boosted it from different advice to a 1.75 and I am gonna hold it for now. I got a good reading (better than hi) of 329 at +6.
Her tooth was pulled put but the other one is stickin out the front of her mouth, although it doesnt seem to bother her. I have an appointment in 2 weeks like June 5th or 6th to see the vet again to fix that up.
Thanks again all
 
Laura, I'm curious why you don't think the 1.5u worked for Mom-Mom. It brought her below 100. Low enough to skip a shot because you weren't comfortable shooting. That skipped shot drained Mom-Mom's depot and the last 2 shots yesterday mainly went to replenishing that depot, not necessarily to Mom-Mom's BG. Add on to the drained depot a bounce and it's not as unreasonable to see her BG went back to HI. I totally understand the frustration of seeing those numbers...Cobb did for awhile as well.

If you're going to hold this dose, I'd recommend monitoring and testing her more often than you would otherwise. The 1.5 already proved it was enough insulin. 1.75 might be too much. You don't want Mom-Mom to go too low.
 
Suzanne, Rhiannon, Julie, and others are right.

First, you need to be consistent in dosing. You've hopped around between 1u, 1.25u, 1.5u, and skipping. That really messes with the lantus depot. If you get a number like that 99 again, than as others suggested, don't feed, post, and ask for help. You will be helping Mom-Mom if you let us teach you how to shoot normal numbers. These long-lasting depot insulins can allow you to take advantage of carryover and overlap. If you shoot a reduced dose or skip a shot, you lose that ability.

Second, don't dose on the pre shot number.

Third, and an excellent point Suzanne is making, is if you leave the dose at 1.75u, you must monitor more frequently to catch any lows.
 
Laura

You're saying you are confused. What is confusing you? What questions do you have?
 
Hi Laura,

I see you edited your first post to include the PM information. When you have a question, just reply to your thread. That way, we won't miss anything that you may have added to the original post.

Let me try to make sure I know what's going on. You're faced with a PMPS of 235 and aren't sure how much to give her. Is that correct? I actually don't give dosing advice, but I do see that Julie (& Punkin) gave you dosing advice earlier today.

Go back to 1.5u tonight and hold it there for at least 6 shots so we can see what it does. So don't change the dose until Thursday morning unless she goes below 50.
Click to expand...

If you do end up giving the 1.5 units, just make sure you test frequently. (A +2 is really, really important.) It looks like Mom-Mom is breaking her bounce tonight, so her numbers might come down into the healing range.

I hope some of the more experienced users will be along to give you additional guidance soon.
Shelly
 
Laura, I would go back down to 1.5units like Julie suggested previously. It took Mom-Mom into nice healing numbers, which is where you want her.

I know compared to the HIs you're getting, the 235 seems awfully low. It isn't. It's a nice preshot number.

~Suzanne
 
don't worry about not getting it - the whole feline diabetes thing can be very confusing! I'm really glad you posted and asked for help for dosing tonight and I see Dyana answered you. Anytime you don't get something or aren't sure what to do, go ahead and post and ask. Nobody minds - we all get how complicated this can be when a person is learning.

Just hold this dose now until Thursday morning so we can see how she does on it. It's great she's finally responding - but yes, as everyone has said, it means you have to test enough to keep her safe. Getting a +2 is always a great idea - it can help you see where the rest of the cycle might go.

:YMHUG:
 
I really hope that the same vet doesn't pull any more of mom-mom's teeth without anesthesia and without giving pain medicine before and for at least a few days afterwards..

It's extremely painful to have a tooth pulled. I don't understand your vet! :evil:
 
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