05/24 Shmee AMPS 289, +3 171, liver support talk

[Amanda & Shmee]

Previous condo

Like Stacy said last night; "three days of greens in a row! Who is this cat?"
High this morning, I assume a bounce. Hopefully today he will follow his green pattern.

He is acting great overall, but his appetite is a little concerning... As of 4 days ago, Shmee is down to 2.5 cans of FF a day instead of his usual 3. This was the vets suggestion since his numbers are looking better and he is overweight (15.5 pounds). His feeding schedule is 1/2 can at AMPS, full can at +4, that is taken away by +9, and his last full can at PMPS. Well when it came time to take away his mid-day can Tuesday, he only ate about half the can. So he ate 2 cans total for the day. Yesterday he ate about 3/4 of his mid-day can, and acted like he didn't want to eat his PM can at all... but after a few minutes and me using a spoon he ate enough where I felt like I could give him his shot. 20 minutes later he went back to the bowl and ate, and ate the whole bowl by morning. So a little over 2 cans eaten in total yesterday.

It has been about a week of no Denamarin, so this is what concerns me. I really hope his liver is not acting up... The trial run of no Denamarin was suggested as a possibility from the vet and I agreed this would be a good idea because 1) his liver levels improved (see SS for labs) and with him now being on insulin and lower numbers she thought it might not be needed anymore 2) Denamarin is about $60 a month 3) this also meant no more HC pill pockets (wouldn't eat the LC ones or any other thing I tried). So... if he continues on this low appetite pattern I might have to consider putting him back on the pills. I really do not want to go back to the HC pill pockets after this progress though.... I would consider buying the empty pill containers, pilling him and rinsing with water, but the label says they do not recommend not giving it with food, to ensure it is digested. Plus pilling him is a horrible exerience for both of us so I would love to keep that out of the picture as much as possible if we can. Hopefully this lower appetite is just a fluke and will not continue though.

I have seen that milk thistle and SAMe have been used for liver support as well, I wonder if either of those are powder that can be mixed in with his food? I haven't looked into those yet.

 

[Stacy & Asia]

I am not at all surprised he didn’t want to eat much for his preshot meal last night with that 61. Remember, even though they are usually ravenous with uncontrolled diabetes, it’s their brain trying to fix that they can’t properly utilize their food so it says “hungry, eat more food!”. Shmee is seeing more normal glucose numbers and it could just be that he is able to properly make use of the food he is eating now so that little hungry voice in his brain has gone back to normal instead of being on overdrive.

Milk thistle comes in liquid form, I’m not sure about powder. SAMe can come in a powder, but it doesn’t seem to have great efficacy that way from what I’ve read. Most of the caps are enterically coated because it needs to make it’s way past stomach acid to be effective. The human doses of SAMe are much too large for cats and they shouldn’t be cut, although it seems your vet was having you split the denamarin and it worked well enough, so I would say it’s probably better than nothing, even the powder.

 

[Amanda & Shmee]

I am not at all surprised he didn’t want to eat much for his preshot meal last night with that 61. Remember, even though they are usually ravenous with uncontrolled diabetes, it’s their brain trying to fix that they can’t properly utilize their food so it says “hungry, eat more food!”. Shmee is seeing more normal glucose numbers and it could just be that he is able to properly make use of the food he is eating now so that little hungry voice in his brain has gone back to normal instead of being on overdrive.

Last night when he had the 233 is when he wouldn't eat at first. 61 was the night before. But still - this all makes sense and I really hope its the case!

Most of the caps are enterically coated because it needs to make it’s way past stomach acid to be effective. The human doses of SAMe are much too large for cats and they shouldn’t be cut, although it seems your vet was having you split the denamarin and it worked well enough, so I would say it’s probably better than nothing, even the powder.

I did see that the Denamarin shouldn't be cut from the FDMB facebook group, but I couldn't find a definitive answer on that so I called the company that makes it and they said that it could be cut, as long as it was eaten within 15 minutes. Which was good for me because he wouldn't eat the entire pill in one pill pocket... he is so stubborn.

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

It has been about a week of no Denamarin, so this is what concerns me. I really hope his liver is not acting up... The trial run of no Denamarin was suggested as a possibility from the vet and I agreed this would be a good idea because 1) his liver levels improved (see SS for labs) and with him now being on insulin and lower numbers she thought it might not be needed anymore 2) Denamarin is about $60 a month 3) this also meant no more HC pill pockets (wouldn't eat the LC ones or any other thing I tried). So... if he continues on this low appetite pattern I might have to consider putting him back on the pills.

Just a thought...
According to the Denamarin web site, "Many pets are maintained long-term on every-other-day or every-third-day administration." Maybe this is something to consider trying with Shmee now that liver values have improved rather than simply stopping denamarin altogether???
http://www.denamarin.com/#cats

I would consider buying the empty pill containers, pilling him and rinsing with water, but the label says they do not recommend not giving it with food, to ensure it is digested.

To clarify for those following...
"For optimal absorption, tablets should be given on an empty stomach, at least one hour before feeding, as the presence of food decreases the absorption of S-Adenosylmethionine. For those owners who have difficulty administering tablets to their pets, Denamarin tablet(s) may be disguised in a small bite of food. Studies have shown that, in many cases, tablets or capsules given as a "dry swallow" do not pass into the stomach in cats but may become lodged in the esophagus. It is recommended for pet owners to administer 3-6 cc of water immediately following any tablet administration to speed passage of the tablet into the stomach. 1, 2 Denamarin for Cats and Small Dogs tablets are ideal for cats because of their small size. If the pet is to receive more than one tablet daily, the total number of tablets may be divided between morning and evening for ease of administration."
http://www.denamarin.com/#cats