05/13/2021 New member - newly diagnosed cat

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Scout's mom

Member Since 2021
Hello! I'm Mary and my cat's name is Scout. He was newly diagnosed with diabetes two weeks ago and was hospitalized for the first two nights. It's been an overwhelming and stressful few weeks as I'm wrapping my head around this, trying to absorb so much new information, worrying about him, getting very little sleep for the first week (he was on a feeding tube and had precise round-the-clock feedings), monitoring his glucose levels, and watching my savings account disappear.

He just got the feeding tube removed today as he's been eating on his own for the past week. He has a bit of an infection where the tube was inserted, but I think we caught it early enough that it should clear up quickly with the antibiotics. I expect it will be some time until this is stabilized and I'm beginning to get the sense that "stabilized" is not going to be a fixed point.

I was very happy to learn of this website and this forum. Looking forward to connecting with others who understand.
 
Hi Mary and Scout and welcome to the forum! :):cat:
Yes it is overwhelming in the beginning and even more so if your precious kitty had been in hospital sick.

Can you tell us a bit about Scout? It sounds as if he may have been sick when he was diagnosed?
Did he have ketones on the urine? Or DKA?
Why did he have the feeding tube put in? I realise it was because he wasn’t eating, but what caused that?

Can you tell us what insulin he is on and what dose?
Can you tell us what you are feeding Scout?
Sorry about all the questions, just trying to gather information so we can help you.

Here is a useful link for new members. Please take special note of the hypo information and kit and make sure you get one set up ASAP.
https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

We have lots more information for you but I don’t want to overwhelm you. I’ll wait to hear your reply before giving you more information.
Bron
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA) Thank you so much for your response! Scout had been a healthy cat until his DM diagnosis (the only exception is that he had one incidence of urinary crystals several years ago). He is 11 years old. About 2-3 weeks before his diagnosis, he became slower and slower in eating his food, though he still finished it all. He has always been on a twice/day canned food diet - Hill's c/d due to the crystal incident. He also was drinking more water and peeing more often. He then started walking away from his food bowl before finishing. I was able to get him to return and finish his food with a lot of encouragement for awhile. During the 5 days before his diagnosis, he did not completely finish all of his food at his feedings and then refused to eat a meal. I took him to the vet at that point and they did blood and urine tests. The results came in the next day with high blood sugar levels (300+), presence of ketones, and concerning numbers for his liver. I took him back to the vet that same day and he had another blood test. His blood sugar was just over 400. The vet immediately located an opening at an emergency animal hospital for that day due to the test results and his continued refusal to eat.

The hospital placed a feeding tube, began insulin, and ran more tests including an ultrasound. He was diagnosed with diabetes, hepatic lipidosis, and anorexia. The ultrasound also showed that his intestinal track is a bit thickened so there is a question of whether he may also have irritable bowel syndrome or cancer, or it just may be related to the diabetes not yet being stabilized. He was discharged from the hospital with prescriptions for two appetite stimulants (Mirtazapine & Cerenia), Denamarin for his liver, and Ursodiol for his liver. He also had a Freestyle Libre 14-day sensor placed on him for me to monitor his blood glucose levels. The insulin he is on is Lantus and his starting dose was 1 unit 2x/day. The hospital prescribed Purina DM canned food. After he came home, he continued to refuse to eat so I had to feed him specific amounts of pureed food every 6 hours through the feeding tube. This was exhausting; one of the feedings was in the middle of night and each feeding took about an hour and a half which including the preparation, actual feeding time (20 - 30 minutes), and clean-up afterward. I keep a journal tracking his medication regimen, feedings, glucose levels, etc. He was listless and limp for the first 7 days after being discharged. He pretty much hid under my bed the whole time and I had to pull him out for his feedings. It was really scary.

After about 5 days, he began to eat some on his own so I had to monitor how much he ate and then supplement it with continuing to feed him through the tube. Even when he ate small bits on his own, he would take 30 minutes to do so and needed a lot of encouragement and help from me to continue. A week ago, he started eating all of his food consistently on his own and finishes now in 5-10 minutes. That's why he was able to have the feeding tube removed today. He is now on a twice/day feeding schedule aligned with his insulin injections.

His blood sugar levels remained high throughout that time and his insulin dose was increased to 1-1/2 units on 05/04. His levels did not reach the 100-200 range until last Friday night and remained consistently within that range all day last Saturday. When I woke up Sunday morning and did a reading, his level was so low that the sensor didn't even give it a number (which meant is was under 40). I called the animal hospital and was advised to rub Karo syrup on his gums, feed him his regular amount of food, and not to give him his usual morning insulin injection. Within half an hour, his blood sugar level was 70. Two hours later, his blood sugar level was over 400. Unfortunately, the Libre stopped operating later that night so I wasn't able to monitor his blood sugar anymore. The internal medicine doctor decreased his insulin dose back down to 1 unit on 05/11. Another Freestyle Libre 14 was placed today; his levels were over 300 for a few hours after leaving the vet and before his evening feeding & insulin shot. It's now 2 hours later and his reading is 281.

I'm feeling much less overwhelmed than I was the first 10 days after he was discharged; he's eating on his own, I don't have to wake up with him for a lengthy time in the middle of the night, his behaviors are all back to pre-diagnosis normal, and as I learn more about diabetes, I feel more hopeful that it can be managed. I do worry about being able to continue to afford ongoing tests and numerous appointments before he's stabilized. I believe it will be affordable for me to manage his condition once he is stabilized. I'm a single person so the twice/day insulin regimen at specific intervals is a concern as the world begins to open up from COVID quarantine and I eventually return to working out of my office, having more of a social life again, and periodically going on vacation. I have two people in my life who have experience with giving insulin injections to animals and have offered to help me.
 
Hi Mary.
What a time you have had. Poor you and poor Scout. There is a lot we can help you with.
I am out collecting kids from school so I’ll write more later. But I would offer him food during the cycles as well as at shot times. Food is really really important after ketones and hepatic lipidosis. More about that later.
Also if you could set up a spreadsheet and enter all the data you have collected over the past couple of weeks that would be very very helpful. The link to the spreadsheet is within the link I have already sent you. I’ll also ask @Bandit's Mom to drop in as she may be able to help with the spreadsheet.
I have to fly but will be back.
 
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Hi Mary,
You will find once everything settles down, it won’t cost nearly as much. It was bad luck he had to be hospitalised. That is always expensive.
The main on going cost will be the test strips of the glucose meter.
I would highly recommend you look at home testing the blood glucose yourself after the current freestyle libre finishes. It is the best way you can keep Scout safe amd takes all the guesswork out of it all.
It is not hard to do and both you and Scout will get very used to it quickly.
I would also recommend you buy a human meter as the pet meters are much more expensive to run and are no better.
Walmart has the ReliOn range of meters which are not expensive and are reliable. You will also need some test strips and a box of lancets. Ask for size 26 or 28 gauge gauge lancets. Also get some cotton balls to put behind the ear when you test.
Here is the link to home testing https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Cerenia is an antinausea medication, not an appetite stimulant btw.

Are you testing for ketones in the urine? After having had them it is really important you are testing for them each day so that you can act quickly if they appear again. In case you don’t have any, you will need a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy and follow the directions on the bottle for testing the urine. It is a simple test.

As I mentioned above, food is really important after having had ketones and after hepatic lipidosis. I would be feeding snacks during the day and evening as well as the two meals before the dose of insulin. You can feed other low carb foods, you don’t need to stick with Purina DM.
Here is a list of suitable foods, look for foods that are 10% carbs or less..
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

I am very glad the vet said to reduce the dose back to 1 unit twice a day.
Keep asking questions, we are very happy to help.
Bron
 
Hi Bron. Thank you so much for this information and your reassurance. It's been another roller coaster of a day. When I woke up and took Scout's reading this morning, it was 70. I called the internal medicine department at the animal hospital where I am continuing to get follow-up for the next few weeks until Scout stabilizes and my regular vet takes over his care. I was advised that he is likely going into remission, not to give him his morning insulin dose, and not to give him any more doses throughout the weekend unless he gets back into the 300-400 range. I thought that was incredibly optimistic and likely premature since his numbers have not stabilized at all yet. Sure enough, his reading an hour ago (9:00pm Seattle time) was 417. I had been advised by the hospital to restart with 1/2 unit if his numbers reached that level so I gave him a second smaller dinner and 1/2 unit.

I plan to get a glucose meter and lancets for when this current Libre is done. I've already checked out some of the videos on this site to see how the testing is done. I'm not loving the thought of doing that, but I get why it's necessary. Thank you for the tip about which meter to get.

I had been told that the Cerenia was both for nausea and was an appetite stimulant. Either way, he's off of it now because he is eating entirely on his own again.

I've not been testing for ketones in the liver. I didn't realize I should be doing that daily. I will get the Ketostix that you recommend to begin doing that.

I have been seeing a lot of information on this site and elsewhere that prescription food is not necessary so I was waiting until returning to his regular vet (who has been getting all reports from the hospital as well as staying in contact with me) to discuss taking him off of the Purina DM and possibly putting him on Fancy Feast. I appreciate your link for food and will check that out.

This website and forum is such a wealth of information. I am co-facilitating an all-day Zoom training tomorrow. I'm planning to start working on Scout's spreadsheet on Sunday so that I can get that posted.
 
Hi Mary,
Re the ketones, they are actually in the blood but will show up in the urine, so it is the urine you test.

I will tag @Bandit's Mom again about the SS in case the tag didn’t work. It will be really helpful if you can get it up and running.

With the drop to 70 then back up to 417, that is what we call a bounce. Bouncing happens when the BG drops too low, too fast, or lower than the cat is used to. The body panics and dumps stored glucose and counter regulatory hormones into the system and the BG shoots up high. This is what has happened to Scout.
Bounces can last from 1 to 6 cycles so don’t be surprised if he stays high for a couple of days. This does not mean he needs more insulin.
For a cat to get a strong remission, you need to make sure the pancreas has healed enough to support itself without insulin. So we recommend giving smaller and smaller doses of insulin as the BG improves. That way the pancreas is supported for as long as is safe and needed.

How many hours after his normal shot time did you give the insulin? Because we are all in different time zones here on the forum we talk in + hours after the dose of insulin. So 2 hours after the dose is +2 and 5 hours after the dose is +5.

If you see the BG dropping fast or too low, you can feed him some food to slow down the drop.

Regarding the prescription food, don’t be surprised if your regular vet thinks you should stay with the prescription food. They are educated by the big food manufacturers who make this food and a lot of them think it is great, which I fine puzzling because it is higher carb, which is not good for diabetics, and has nothing special in it.

I was trying to see what dose you were giving before the drop to 70 and then the restart at 0.5 units. ....
 
Hello Bron -
I gave him tonight's shot 2 hours after his normal shot time. The last dose he had before tonight's shot was last night (since I skipped this morning's shot due to the hospital's advice). His regular dose was 1 unit, but I only gave him 1/2 unit tonight since the hospital advised me to restart him at 1/2 unit if I had to resume the insulin this weekend. If I need to give him a dose in the morning, I was planning to give it to him 1-1/2 hours later than I normally would so as to gradually shift him back to his usual shot times 1/2 hour at a time.

A friend of mine who has diabetes and used to have a diabetic dog has also been giving me good information that is consistent with a lot of what you are telling me. She suggested giving Scout tuna or raw egg in between his regular meals to slow down a potentially quick or dramatic dip. It's such a relief to have other's experience to learn from.

I was already preparing myself for my vet possibly recommending that I keep Scout on the prescription food. I don't know if that will be the case or not, but I feel like I'm learning enough about the carb to protein to fat ratio to be able to respond to that if necessary and to have the confidence to switch to one of the foods from the link you sent me.
 
To get back to the schedule for dosing you can do it two ways. Either 1/4 hours back each cycle OR 1/2 hour once a day.
I would stay with the 1/2 unit dose and not attempt to give any more at the moment unless he drops low again.
 
Sorry I had more to write and it posted itself,

With the food during the cycle, you can feed ordinary low carb food. In fact we commend you do that. If you find he is dropping fast, you can give some higher carb food, not too much, just a teaspoon or two, to slow the drop. Try low carb first to see if that does the trick.

When you speak to the vet about the food, all you need to say is.....Scout has gone off the Purina DM and won’t eat it. He can’t argue with that.

I’m sure you are learning a lot. It’s a steep learning curve in the beginning but it does get much easier.
 
I thought I had. I think I fixed it now so that you should be able to see it.
Yes I can see it now! Well done.
Looks like he’s bouncing from the green BGs a couple of days ago. This is normal with newly diagnosed diabetic kitties. I’m out walking atm but will answer you more fully when I get home.
 
You are just heading into the 4th cycle of the bounce. Bounces can last for up to 6 cycles, so be on the look out for the numbers starting to come down over the next couple of cycles. Sometimes when they come off the bounce, they can drop quickly and quite low, so just be aware that if you start seeing lower numbers, to test a bit more frequently. Once he comes off the bounce we will be able to see where his numbers are.

Do you have a hypo kit set up in case it is needed?
How is his appetite now?

Just looking at the SS on 5/13 in the pm cycle, you can see at +4 he was still dropping. He could well have been coming off a bounce then, but we have no data to see if that is the case. But if you test and find he is still dropping like that, make sure you test again to see how low he is going. He obviously dropped quite a bit further than the 192 at +4 becasue he was only 69 at AMPS the next morning.

I think it would be a good idea now if you started to post over on the Lantus forum now. here is the link... https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/.
Would you like to do that? Everyone there uses either Lantus or Levemir, which is very similar to Lantus and can help you.
Over there you start a new thread each day.
So in the subject line you put the date, cats name, AMPS and any questions. So you would write....5/17 Scout AMPS xxx NEW. Recovering from hepatic lipidosis and ketones.
That will alert people you are new and have had a sick kitty.
Also could you put ketones in the signature please as we always like to know if a kitty have had them,...it makes a difference as to how we advise sometimes.
Bron.
 
Thank you, Bron. I'm learning so much new terminology. By "bounce," do you mean when he goes quickly from a dramatic dip to a dramatic high? And by "cycle," do you mean the time between the AMPS and PMPS and then between the PMPS and AMPS? I don't yet have a hypo kit set up although I have plenty of Purina DM if he needs more food and I also have dry Royal Canin hydrolized protein food on hand that my other cat eats (I assume that is a higher carb). I will put a hypo kit together. His appetite has been consistently great ever since he started to fully eat on his own which was about 10 days ago. The hospital internal medicine vet told me to feed him 1-1/2 cans of Purina DM per day.

His pattern when he drops does seem to be mostly during the night. I will be mindful that if it appears he is dropping when I go to sleep, I will wake up during the night to check his level again and give him food if necessary. It's late her so I will post to the Lantus forum tomorrow as you indicated. I'll also put ketones in my signature. Thank you so much for your help!
 
By "bounce," do you mean when he goes quickly from a dramatic dip to a dramatic high?
The fast or low drop will cause the bounce which is usually a fairly sharp rise.
And by "cycle," do you mean the time between the AMPS and PMPS and then between the PMPS and AMPS?
Between AMPS and PMPS is 1 cycle and between PMPS and AMPS is another cycle. So each cycle is 12 hours.
I don't yet have a hypo kit set up although I have plenty of Purina DM if he needs more food and I also have dry Royal Canin hydrolized protein food on hand that my other cat eats (I assume that is a higher carb). I will put a hypo kit together.
It is better to have a High carb canned food to use for low BGs as it is absorbed quicker and doesn't stay in the system for as long.

His appetite has been consistently great ever since he started to fully eat on his own which was about 10 days ago
That is really good. Hes eating low carb canned now, is that correct?

It is looking like you may need to increase the dose to 0.75 U as he is on his 7th cycle after the bounce now...lets see what he does overnight.
 
He is eating canned Purina DM. I'm going to switch to one of the low carb Fancy Feast foods in about a week after I use up all of the Purina DM that I have. I will also get a high carb canned food based on your advise for low BGs. Is there any one in particular you recommend? It will be hard to change from .5 to .75 because there's so little difference between the two measurements with the syringe. I'll do my best.
 
He is eating canned Purina DM. I'm going to switch to one of the low carb Fancy Feast foods in about a week after I use up all of the Purina DM that I have. I will also get a high carb canned food based on your advise for low BGs. Is there any one in particular you recommend? It will be hard to change from .5 to .75 because there's so little difference between the two measurements with the syringe. I'll do my best.
Fancy feast has some good high carb canned foods. Look for the gravy lovers.

The 0.75 is half way between the 0.5 and the 1unit. You just have to eyeball it. Do you have a magnifying glass?
Don’t increase yet. Wait until tomorrow and you have posted on the Lantus forum. You could ask the question..do I increase yet.
 
Thanks for the food tip. A magnifying glass is a great idea - I do have one. I'll wait to increase until I see how he's doing tomorrow. I just posted my first thread on the Lantus forum asking about glucometers and lancets. I'll post another thread there tomorrow with the question whether to increase his dose after I see what Scout's numbers are.

Okay, I really am going to go to bed now. It's 11:40pm in Seattle and I have to work in the morning!
 
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