05/10 shooting 1st green number: AMPS - 80 | + 0.5 - 79 | +1 - 56 | +2 - 64 | +3 - 54 | +4 - 69 | +5 - 71 | + 7 - 77 |

zero - sigma & mielconejo

zero - sigma & mielconejo

Member Since 2026
yesterday's condo: a skipped shot and TONS of amazing info for those who are learning to shoot low PS numbers

zero's SS

hello! it's yet another day of nice numbers here.
Yesterday We skipped the AM shot due to low number 69 and me not really knowing if I should shoot or no. in yesterday's condo I gathered amazing info.
Today he is sitting at AMPS 80 I removed his food at around his +9 so he hasn't eaten anything since then, I noticed that his lantus cycle tends to do a little second dip in the AMPS.

I am gonna shoot his usual dose of 1.5U.

as per this post i will be following the "If it is your first time shooting green, then we will likely suggest that you stall the first time, even if the number is 80-100."

and then take it from there, I feel I have all the info needed. An even though it's still early on data, I think I somehow understand his lantus cycle behaviour a little bit. He had no food out, I will test in 30 mins to see if he's rising out of his little PS dip, if he gets to 100-105 I'll shoot.

The tools I have in my hypo kit:
- cans of FF gravy lovers
- honey
- syringe with no needle
- 5 packets of 50 testing strips each
- courage
- i can test him throughout the day.

what i am expecting his curve to be like:

after the shot: +1 rise, +2 starts dipping a bit, +4 dips faster, +5 keeps dipping but much slower, +7 begins rising gently, +8 gentle rise +11 a small dip again.

we'll see, wish me luck!
 
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zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
little update: tested 30 mins after his PS and he is still dipping a little bit, lol. tested at 79, will wait 30 more mins and test again.
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If you can monitor, you don't want to stall.. he's flat without food. Sometimes, stalling longer can cause numbers to drop making the dosing decision even more difficult. Just feed and shoot. With TR you can shoot any number over 50.

ETA: 79 and 80 are pretty much the same number!
 

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zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
UPDATE @ +1: he dropped to 56 - he is eating a lot. I'll re-test in 30 mins to see how much more will he drop or if he maintains a slow dip.
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Great job shooting. And good catch at +1. See you in a few and I hope he flattens out.

For his +1 to be less, it means he’s getting good duration. This is not from the shot you gave today. I’m glad to see you were able to hold him steady through onset. I wouldn’t let it go too long to test again and it was fine if you fed him more LC at +2.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Great job shooting. And good catch at +1. See you in a few and I hope he flattens out.

For his +1 to be less, it means he’s getting good duration. This is not from the shot you gave today. I’m glad to see you were able to hold him steady through onset. I wouldn’t let it go too long to test again and it was fine if you fed him more LC at +2.
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thank youuu! he definitely is still going down, he had a little up @+2 on 64 i think completely caused by food. now @+3 he's a little lower again at 54. since his bigger drops usually happen at +4, I'll try testing ever 30 mins.
 
Hi Mielconejo! Congratulations on shooting your first green. Are you giving him 2-3 tsps of food at a time? You don't want him to get too full since you have a way to go in the cycle. You're doing a great job keeping him safe!!
 
Mary & Jude said:
Hi Mielconejo! Congratulations on shooting your first green. Are you giving him 2-3 tsps of food at a time? You don't want him to get too full since you have a way to go in the cycle. You're doing a great job keeping him safe!!
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Hii Mary! unfortunately they are free fed, so i just leave the plate out for both cats and he ate the whole thing and then some! :oops:

I've been pondering switching them from free feed to scheduled, but Zero specially, usually eats tiny bits and loves to graze here and there, so that is why i prefer to free feed. Having said that, so far he has portrayed a much bigger apetite when dropping below 70 and today he has been eating every hour. (he must be feeling pretty full by now) 🫢

I'll try feeding him just spoons as you said moving forward, so far today I've seen a steady little drop, increase, drop, increase, doing a bit of a steady line as you've all told me it happens with lantus but never seen before. I do think the lantus is wanting to drop him a bit more, but the feeding is keeping him a bit up. I may have messed the real numbers a little since I did add a teaspoon of HC FF gravy lovers on his feed @+3 out of fear that his +4 is usually more aggressive and he was already sitting at 54, kinda got spooked that he would drop to the 40's.

As I re-read the guidelines on shooting low numbers, maybe that wasn't too smart. I missed the chance to see truly how low the lantus may take him. 😕
 
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Jude grazes too. The only time I withhold food from him is in a situation like Zero is experiencing today, when I know I will need to use food to manipulate the curve, and I want him to remain a little hungry so that he will eat. By the way, I'm going to post a sticky that I think you'll appreciate; it describes what you're doing today: 8/10 TASHIE pmps=HIGH! +Questions***

I'm glad to see him coming up a bit. He's probably hit his nadir at +4. You'll still want to keep an eye on him though. Food stays in their system for up to about two hours, and once it's out of their system, they can experience drops.

Have you been feeding him low carb? Or another %carb food?
 
Mary & Jude said:
Jude grazes too. The only time I withhold food from him is in a situation like Zero is experiencing today, when I know I will need to use food to manipulate the curve, and I want him to remain a little hungry so that he will eat. By the way, I'm going to post a sticky that I think you'll appreciate; it describes what you're doing today: 8/10 TASHIE pmps=HIGH! +Questions***

I'm glad to see him coming up a bit. He's probably hit his nadir at +4. You'll still want to keep an eye on him though. Food stays in their system for up to about two hours, and once it's out of their system, they can experience drops.

Have you been feeding him low carb? Or another %carb food?
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I did update the info on my last response, but I think I did mess up the +4 reading by feeding him a tsp of HC FF gravy lovers. My thought was, he's already going down at +3 and his +4 usually has been a steep drop, i got spooked he would drop below 40's and added a tiny bit of that on top of the spoon of the LC FF classic. As I thought more about the feeding, even though he grazes, I never serve more than 1/4 can because they eat so few at a time that I know if I put more than that in the plate it's gonna go to waste, after sitting there a few hours they would not eat it.

I am still trying to figure out how much of the wet food they should eat daily, so I just leave it out until they meow for more and add more. (which ends up being a total of 3 times per day to an amount of 1.5 - 2 cans per cat/day)
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
I did update the info on my last response, but I think I did mess up the +4 reading by feeding him a tsp of HC FF gravy lovers. My thought was, he's already going down at +3 and his +4 usually has been a steep drop, i got spooked he would drop below 40's and added a tiny bit of that on top of the spoon of the LC FF classic. As I thought more about the feeding, even though he grazes, I never serve more than 1/4 can because they eat so few at a time that I know if I put more than that in the plate it's gonna go to waste, after sitting there a few hours they would not eat it.
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Your concerns are completely understandable! Zero has been in some lower numbers today--not too low--but certainly lower than normal for him (and you!). Did you feed him HC at +3? I'm only asking because one of the things you're doing right now is learning how carb sensitive he is by seeing what has worked to help him climb up out of certain numbers. I'm wondering if he received a higher carb food to get to that 69 at +4 or if it was a natural rise with LC OR without food. You'll use all this knowledge on a go-forward basis. If you know that a LC will work for Zero rather than MC or HC when he's experiencing lower numbers, you'll know to go with the lower carb valued food.

Also, anything that could affect their bg (like food given at a certain time to raise bg, etc.), I try to note in the comments. It's just good data to document.

It sounds like he's remained willing to eat for you today, so whatever you've done has worked. Once you're a couple hours past him eating and you begin to see numbers rise, you'll know the insulin is waning.

I love seeing him so responsive to the insulin!! This is great, GREAT progress for you and Zero!!
 
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Mary & Jude said:
Your concerns are completely understandable! Zero has been in some lower numbers today--not too low--but certainly lower than normal for him (and you!). Did you feed him HC at +3? I'm only asking because one of the things you're doing right now is learning how carb sensitive he is by seeing what has worked to help him climb up out of certain numbers. I'm wondering if he received a higher carb food to get to that 69 at +4 or if it was a natural rise with LC OR without food. You'll use all this knowledge on a go-forward basis. If you know that a LC will work for Zero rather than MC or HC when he's experiencing lower numbers, you'll know to go with the lower carb valued food.

Also, anything that could affect their bg (like food given at a certain time to raise bg, etc.), I try to note in the comments. It's just good data to document.

It sounds like he's remained willing to eat for you today, so whatever you've done has worked. Once you're a couple hours past him eating and you begin to see numbers rise, you'll know the insulin is waning.

I love seeing him so responsive to the insulin!! This is great, GREAT progress for you and Zero!!
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yep that's exactly right. i fed him a teaspoon of fancy feast gravy lovers which is sitting between 13% - 20% carbs because i have noticed his biggest drop usually happens between +3 and +4 and was afraid that being at 54 already in +3 would get him lower than 50 at his +4 maybe even lower than 40, so i fed him a tiny bit of that on top of his LC fancy feast. I do believe that 69 was influenced by that, pretty sure if not he would have kept dropping more. Maybe I should have let him to see how low can he go and understand better his cycle.

Oh, well. 🤷‍♀️ the more you learn.

he just now gave me a reading of 71 @+5 probably still influenced by his bit of HC. still grazing a bit here and there every hour. getting pretty sensitive by now from all the ear poking.

thank you for the encouragement, I hope we can keep this going, he was pretty sick for years and he deserves a little tiny break. : )
 
Mary & Jude said:
Jude grazes too. The only time I withhold food from him is in a situation like Zero is experiencing today, when I know I will need to use food to manipulate the curve, and I want him to remain a little hungry so that he will eat. By the way, I'm going to post a sticky that I think you'll appreciate; it describes what you're doing today: 8/10 TASHIE pmps=HIGH! +Questions***
Click to expand...
btw thank you for this sticky! it's really informational! thank you! ☄️
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
yep that's exactly right. i fed him a teaspoon of fancy feast gravy lovers which is sitting between 13% - 20% carbs because i have noticed his biggest drop usually happens between +3 and +4 and was afraid that being at 54 already in +3 would get him lower than 50 at his +4 maybe even lower than 40, so i fed him a tiny bit of that on top of his LC fancy feast. I do believe that 69 was influenced by that, pretty sure if not he would have kept dropping more. Maybe I should have let him to see how low can he go and understand better his cycle.

Oh, well. 🤷‍♀️ the more you learn.

he just now gave me a reading of 71 @+5 probably still influenced by his bit of HC. still grazing a bit here and there every hour. getting pretty sensitive by now from all the ear poking.

thank you for the encouragement, I hope we can keep this going, he was pretty sick for years and he deserves a little tiny break. : )
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Once you are two hours past hc/mc food and he begins going up or is flat for a few tests, you can give him a break with the testing.
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
Hii Mary! unfortunately they are free fed, so i just leave the plate out for both cats and he ate the whole thing and then some! :oops:

I've been pondering switching them from free feed to scheduled, but Zero specially, usually eats tiny bits and loves to graze here and there, so that is why i prefer to free feed. Having said that, so far he has portrayed a much bigger apetite when dropping below 70 and today he has been eating every hour. (he must be feeling pretty full by now) 🫢

I'll try feeding him just spoons as you said moving forward, so far today I've seen a steady little drop, increase, drop, increase, doing a bit of a steady line as you've all told me it happens with lantus but never seen before. I do think the lantus is wanting to drop him a bit more, but the feeding is keeping him a bit up. I may have messed the real numbers a little since I did add a teaspoon of HC FF gravy lovers on his feed @+3 out of fear that his +4 is usually more aggressive and he was already sitting at 54, kinda got spooked that he would drop to the 40's.

As I re-read the guidelines on shooting low numbers, maybe that wasn't too smart. I missed the chance to see truly how low the lantus may take him. 😕
Click to expand...
He’s been really pretty flat all day and this is the kind of Lantus cycle you want.

It often works better with the insulin to feed the curve as discussed in the post Mary linked. You want long duration so ideally would feed most his food for the day cycle by +6. If he’s hungry later, freeze dried chicken or boiled chicken breast is LC and can satisfy the hunger without nipping duration.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
He’s been really pretty flat all day and this is the kind of Lantus cycle you want.

It often works better with the insulin to feed the curve as discussed in the post Mary linked. You want long duration so ideally would feed most his food for the day cycle by +6. If he’s hungry later, freeze dried chicken or boiled chicken breast is LC and can satisfy the hunger without nipping duration.
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yes!! so far so good!!! we'll see how it continues. I'm giving him a bit of a break of ear pricking to rest on his +6, and getting back to it on his +7 and definitely want to start testing the +10s and +11s as stated on the shooting low post.

as for boiled chicken, I'll have to start trying that again now that he finally eats wet, because in his 10yrs of life, he has NEVER once been the least curious about chicken, or tuna or even salmon. he does not like to have "pieces" on his food, he even leaves the bits on the glycobalance so i crush them and turn them into pate before feeding it to him. when he is in low numbers like today, he eats them no issue, so maybe that's when i can start sneaking some boiled chicken strands in there and see if he starts eating them. never tried freeze dried treats, i reckon he would not be interested, but maybe BECAUSE i removed dry food and he was sooo addicted to it, it may reminisce of it and like it. will have to try and see!

thanks for the advice!

quick question: is Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers considered MC or HC? i was building this lil chart for reference, but not sure.
🥣 LC - fed him low carb food: (Fancy feast Classic Pate P:11% C:2-10%, Royal Canin Glycobalance P:7.5-9% C:<10%)
🥕 MC - fed him med carb food: (Fancy feast Gravy Lovers P:40-45% C:10-20%)
🍟 HC - fed him high carb food: (Hill's ID wet food P:29% C:24%, dry kibble: Hill's WD P:41% C:36.9%)
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
yes!! so far so good!!! we'll see how it continues. I'm giving him a bit of a break of ear pricking to rest on his +6, and getting back to it on his +7 and definitely want to start testing the +10s and +11s as stated on the shooting low post.

as for boiled chicken, I'll have to start trying that again now that he finally eats wet, because in his 10yrs of life, he has NEVER once been the least curious about chicken, or tuna or even salmon. he does not like to have "pieces" on his food, he even leaves the bits on the glycobalance so i crush them and turn them into pate before feeding it to him. when he is in low numbers like today, he eats them no issue, so maybe that's when i can start sneaking some boiled chicken strands in there and see if he starts eating them. never tried freeze dried treats, i reckon he would not be interested, but maybe BECAUSE i removed dry food and he was sooo addicted to it, it may reminisce of it and like it. will have to try and see!

thanks for the advice!

quick question: is Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers considered MC or HC? i was building this lil chart for reference, but not sure.
🥣 LC - fed him low carb food: (Fancy feast Classic Pate P:11% C:2-10%, Royal Canin Glycobalance P:7.5-9% C:<10%)
🥕 MC - fed him med carb food: (Fancy feast Gravy Lovers P:40-45% C:10-20%)
🍟 HC - fed him high carb food: (Hill's ID wet food P:29% C:24%, dry kibble: Hill's WD P:41% C:36.9%)
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Here is the food chart I like to use because it's updated regularly: https://www.bizave.com/foodlists/Combined_Food_Lists_Feeding_Guide.pdf. You're looking at the third column from the left, carbs % of calories. You'll see the FF foods on the list--you have to look around a bit to see how the author has things organized, but once you get the hang of it, it's easy. I think FF the gravy lovers flavors are on page 14.
 
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❓❓❓hiii! I have a question regarding what's next on the PM cycle, assuming things keep going as they have today.
so if I get another green number on the PMPS, should I shoot the same dose or a slightly reduced one?
the reason i ask this is because on the PM cycle, he does not usually eat at the +1, +2, +3 but rather at the +7, +8 the rest of the time he is sleeping. so regulating with food is a bit harder, and again, I fear his +3, +4 where he gets the biggest drops.

what would you advice in this case?
 
Great job today Mielconejo and Zero! That is a perfect Lantus cycle! I'm not comfortable giving dosing advice, so hopefully someone stops by and answers your question.

I will say, for Bell (Every Cat is Different - ECID), when she is at those lower greens, especially low 50s and below, her appetite is majorly increased. She licks her plate clean, which is something she doesn't do otherwise.
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
❓❓❓hiii! I have a question regarding what's next on the PM cycle, assuming things keep going as they have today.
so if I get another green number on the PMPS, should I shoot the same dose or a slightly reduced one?
the reason i ask this is because on the PM cycle, he does not usually eat at the +1, +2, +3 but rather at the +7, +8 the rest of the time he is sleeping. so regulating with food is a bit harder, and again, I fear his +3, +4 where he gets the biggest drops.

what would you advice in this case?
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If it were me, I would skip the +11 and give him a testing break (poor little ears!!!). You'll be able to see from the PMPS compared to the +10 what direction he is moving in. I don't think he's going to make any big moves in either direction at the +11 point. Catch your PMPS about 20 minutes early and post on here what his number is. He's 97 now, so I'm guessing he is not going to be in the greens, but we'll see. You haven't caught any second nadirs (at the end of the cycle) yet, but there is always a first time for everything.

You should try to get him to eat something with the shot--is this possible? Or at least at +1/+2, or he might drop. Like you, I'm a bit worried about this. Let's get some more experienced eyes on the picture.

I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie and @Bandit's Mom to see if they are around so that they can give you some dosing guidance.
 
zero - sigma & mielconejo said:
❓❓❓hiii! I have a question regarding what's next on the PM cycle, assuming things keep going as they have today.
so if I get another green number on the PMPS, should I shoot the same dose or a slightly reduced one?
the reason i ask this is because on the PM cycle, he does not usually eat at the +1, +2, +3 but rather at the +7, +8 the rest of the time he is sleeping. so regulating with food is a bit harder, and again, I fear his +3, +4 where he gets the biggest drops.

what would you advice in this case?
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Just remember with a 1.5u depot, even shooting a reduced dose is not likely to change tonight’s cycle but will start to drain his depot.

The decision is yours. You know whether you can get him to eat. Under TR, yes, you would still shoot 1.5u unless he’s too low to shoot. You were only feeding LC primarily to keep him stable (one MC feeding).

You can post his PMPS and we can discuss if you’ll let me know how long that will be.

Edited to add: can you please update the subject line to remove the text and include his name? Thanks.
 
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Mary & Jude said:
If it were me, I would skip the +11 and give him a testing break (poor little ears!!!). You'll be able to see from the PMPS compared to the +10 what direction he is moving in. I don't think he's going to make any big moves in either direction at the +11 point. Catch your PMPS about 20 minutes early and post on here what his number is. He's 97 now, so I'm guessing he is not going to be in the greens, but we'll see. You haven't caught any second nadirs (at the end of the cycle) yet, but there is always a first time for everything.

You should try to get him to eat something with the shot--is this possible? Or at least at +1/+2, or he might drop. Like you, I'm a bit worried about this. Let's get some more experienced eyes on the picture.

I'm going to tag @Marje and Gracie and @Bandit's Mom to see if they are around so that they can give you some dosing guidance.
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I'm gonna follow your advice and let him rest, for the +11 yes, he is already looking at me like: mom, i think you are abusing your powers. lol.
he has not eaten since his +7 so I think he'll eat if i feed, hopefully around his +2.
thank you so much for all your company today. it made things sooo much better. 🍀
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Just remember with a 1.5u depot, even shooting a reduced dose is not likely to change tonight’s cycle but will start to drain his depot.

The decision is yours. You know whether you can get him to eat. Under TR, yes, you would still shoot 1.5u unless he’s too low to shoot. You were only feeding LC primarily to keep him stable (one MC feeding).

You can post his PMPS and we can discuss if you’ll let me know how long that will be.

Edited to add: can you please update the subject line to remove the text and include his name? Thanks.
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I think I'll keep the 1.5U since it seems to be working amazing on him.
his PMPS is in 25 mins. I'll post where we land so we can see where to go from there!
I think he may eat if I feed, I've taken away food since his +7- he may want to eat something now.

thank you soo soo much for teh guidance, I still cannot believe my eyes seeing all those green squares. my baby's pancreas needs a nobel prize. lol-
 
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