05/07 Mister AMPS 204 +2 84 +3 111 +6 225

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Staci & Ivy said:
Yay, go Mister. Nice amps today. Looks like the increase is working.

Have a safe surf today 🌊🏄‍♂️😻
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His +2 is 84, his first green! My eyes got so big when I read the meter.

Is he dropping too quickly? How can one tell? This is his normal “small meal” time so he did just eat a little bit after the test.

I meant to reply to both of you in one comment Marje and Staci, I just learned how to do that
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
His +2 is 84, his first green! My eyes got so big when I read the meter.

Is he dropping too quickly? How can one tell? This is his normal “small meal” time so he did just eat a little bit after the test.

I meant to reply to both of you in one comment Marje and Staci, I just learned how to do that
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Did you retest that? If it’s valid, Karolina is right and you need to slow that train down with a little MC food and retest 30 mins after he eats.
 
Karolina & Nestle said:
That is quite the drop so please keep monitoring. Are you able to get +3?
Do you have any MC or HC just in case he keeps dropping?
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Marje and Gracie said:
Did you retest that? If it’s valid, Karolina is right and you need to slow that train down with a little MC food and retest 30 mins after he eats.
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Yes, I’ll be home with him and will keep testing. He just ate 1/3 can LC mixed with a ~teaspoon of MC (13%) as I thought it was awfully quick too. He’s still hungry so just gave him some more of the MC. The second test read 83.
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
Yes, I’ll be home with him and will keep testing. He just ate 1/3 can LC mixed with a ~teaspoon of MC (13%) as I thought it was awfully quick too. He’s still hungry so just gave him some more of the MC. The second test read 83.
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Hated to ask you to poke him again since he doesn’t like it. Be careful on the food. If he decides to have a long cycle of green, you don’t want him to be too full. See you back here shortly with the next BG.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Hated to ask you to poke him again since he doesn’t like it. Be careful on the food. If he decides to have a long cycle of green, you don’t want him to be too full. See you back here shortly with the next BG.
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I might have taken your advice too late, I think I gave him more food than necessary because I got a little nervous (and excited)

He’s at 111 now, this is his +3
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
I might have taken your advice too late, I think I gave him more food than necessary because I got a little nervous (and excited)

He’s at 111 now, this is his +3
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Ok that’s alright. It’s a learning curve and we don’t know how carb sensitive he is. Usually we just want to give a small amount of food so hold off now.

You can give him 1.5-2 hours to recheck. I’ll be gone but post if you need help.

I’m just happy to see progress. He will likely bounce from such a steep drop but that’s just part of the process.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Ok that’s alright. It’s a learning curve and we don’t know how carb sensitive he is. Usually we just want to give a small amount of food so hold off now.

You can give him 1.5-2 hours to recheck. I’ll be gone but post if you need help.

I’m just happy to see progress. He will likely bounce from such a steep drop but that’s just part of the process.
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You read my mind on all of this. Thank you so so much Marje.
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
Do you think this is still a safe dose for tonight? I can continue to monitor him through the night (probably will get the same tests in regardless) or do we need to still see where he goes?
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Absolutely. He needs to go below 50 to earn a reduction. The first time you get a 150 or below at PMPS (unlikely tonight ), stall his shot without feeding him and post for help. We will walk you through it,

You can see the extra food really stopped his insulin action. As I said, it’s something we all have to learn about our cat. Some cats are very responsive to LC and some need HC to slow them down. You did a good job.

He probably will bounce tonight but if we are getting close to a good dose, these high numbers could just be his shortened duration so he might come back down with the next shot’s onset.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Absolutely. He needs to go below 50 to earn a reduction. The first time you get a 150 or below at PMPS (unlikely tonight ), stall his shot without feeding him and post for help. We will walk you through it,

You can see the extra food really stopped his insulin action. As I said, it’s something we all have to learn about our cat. Some cats are very responsive to LC and some need HC to slow them down. You did a good job.

He probably will bounce tonight but if we are getting close to a good dose, these high numbers could just be his shortened duration so he might come back down with the next shot’s onset.
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Okay thank you, that’s what I was wondering too- how low of a PMPS to stall. and I know, I feel bad about interrupting his action today :( but also glad to know more about how he responds. And I feel more comfortable about lower numbers and steering him. Overall I’m very happy about today, and I feel much more hopeful. I appreciate you & everyone else being here. I feel like we are headed a good direction. gosh I can’t imagine doing this without this forum.
 
I hope I can word my question right, but how do we know how a PM cycle might go in relation to an AM cycle if I am not feeding him during the night like I do during the day? I’ve been wondering especially since he eats more than usual during the day because of the ketones and at night he only eats a small meal at most, once we start seeing more action in his BG, how do we keep a balance when food isn’t affecting the numbers so much during the night?
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
I hope I can word my question right, but how do we know how a PM cycle might go in relation to an AM cycle if I am not feeding him during the night like I do during the day? I’ve been wondering especially since he eats more than usual during the day because of the ketones and at night he only eats a small meal at most, once we start seeing more action in his BG, how do we keep a balance when food isn’t affecting the numbers so much during the night?
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They could look entirely different although many cats will go lower at night. For a day like today where the duration was shortened, if the BG at PMPS is really high, he’s probably bouncing on top of the loss of duration and he’s not likely to come back down but cats don’t read the manual and they often do exactly opposite of what we might expect. If he doesn’t go too much higher than he is now, he could potentially see a similar cycle to this morning if he doesn’t decide to bounce somewhere along the way. They don’t always start a bounce in the same part of a cycle.

Your biggest clue to any cycle is the +2 and that’s why Lantus users should always get one unless they have tons of data on their cat and know their onset, duration, nadir. The +2 will “usually” tell you what the cycle might look like. If the +2 is within 20%of the PS on the higher side or is equal to or lower than the PS, you could be looking at an active cycle. Of course, he could be lower wt +2 when he insets and then decide to bounce.

Does that help?
 
Definitely does, that answered a few things for me.
I guess I’ve been worried about as we get closer to a good dose, him doing great during the day (all blue or green) and then at night, since I’m not feeding as much to influence those numbers, him dropping too low while I sleep. I have a feeling I’ll be getting up to test more frequently until I start recognizing more patterns.
Thank you!
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
Definitely does, that answered a few things for me.
I guess I’ve been worried about as we get closer to a good dose, him doing great during the day (all blue or green) and then at night, since I’m not feeding as much to influence those numbers, him dropping too low while I sleep. I have a feeling I’ll be getting up to test more frequently until I start recognizing more patterns.
Thank you!
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Can you give him a small snack at +2 and +4 of LC food to keep him steady?
 
Staci & Ivy said:
Can you give him a small snack at +2 and +4 of LC food to keep him steady?
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yes I can! I usually feed him a little at +2, and then lately he’s been waking me up around +6-7 but I can feed at +4 instead to hold him over and also keep it further from the time the insulin is waning. I’ll definitely be keeping a close eye.

Does insulin not bring down a bounce? Is that one way to know that’s what’s happening?
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
yes I can! I usually feed him a little at +2, and then lately he’s been waking me up around +6-7 but I can feed at +4 instead to hold him over and also keep it further from the time the insulin is waning. I’ll definitely be keeping a close eye.

Does insulin not bring down a bounce? Is that one way to know that’s what’s happening?
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Exactly, they need more food in the beginning as the insulin is onsetting. Later in the cycle it can shorten the duration of insulin. Of course, if he’s dropping later in the cycle and you need to, you can always try to flatten him out with a little bit of low-carb food.

If they are going to bounce, they’re going to bounce, and then they’ll come back down. As they get more used to being on insulin and their body getting used to not being so high anymore, hopefully the bouncing will calm down.

My kitty is a pretty big bouncer still. Some cats just are but many of them do flatten out with their cycles.
Let’s hope Mister learns how to have nice flat cycles. 😻
 
Elizabeth & Mister said:
Definitely does, that answered a few things for me.
I guess I’ve been worried about as we get closer to a good dose, him doing great during the day (all blue or green) and then at night, since I’m not feeding as much to influence those numbers, him dropping too low while I sleep. I have a feeling I’ll be getting up to test more frequently until I start recognizing more patterns.
Thank you!
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Can you use an auto feeder? If you fed him a LC meal at +2 and +4, perhaps you could leave a boiled or freeze dried chicken snack out for +7 or so in an auto feeder. He’d have to really be carb sensitive for that to drive up his BG…possible but I’ve only seen a couple cats that FD chicken breast could raise their BG.

Many members feed their regular portion divided up into mini meals fed at PS, +2, +3, +4. Sometimes it has to be tweaked for each cat. I’m also sure you will experience being a walking zombie from testing at night. After Gracie passed, it took me months before I could sleep through the night. I kept waking up thinking I had missed an important test.

Elizabeth & Mister said:
Does insulin not bring down a bounce? Is that one way to know that’s what’s happening?
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You don’t want to increase the dose to try and address a bounce. If you were to give more insulin just, coincidentally, as the bounce was breaking, you’d have a potentially scary cycle on your hands. It’s safer just to let them bounce, let it clear, and then see where the nadir is to decide what to do with the dose.

What does the arrow and note in the +5 column on his SS mean?
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Can you use an auto feeder? If you fed him a LC meal at +2 and +4, perhaps you could leave a boiled or freeze dried chicken snack out for +7 or so in an auto feeder. He’d have to really be carb sensitive for that to drive up his BG…possible but I’ve only seen a couple cats that FD chicken breast could raise their BG.

Many members feed their regular portion divided up into mini meals fed at PS, +2, +3, +4. Sometimes it has to be tweaked for each cat. I’m also sure you will experience being a walking zombie from testing at night. After Gracie passed, it took me months before I could sleep through the night. I kept waking up thinking I had missed an important test.


You don’t want to increase the dose to try and address a bounce. If you were to give more insulin just, coincidentally, as the bounce was breaking, you’d have a potentially scary cycle on your hands. It’s safer just to let them bounce, let it clear, and then see where the nadir is to decide what to do with the dose.

What does the arrow and note in the +5 column on his SS mean?
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Oh yes I know that, I should have been more clear- I read somewhere that during a bounce, along with stored glucose, the kidneys also release another chemical (?) that prevents the insulin from working correctly, so during a bounce it’s common to not see the numbers go down very much. Is this true?

I think I was able to fix my spreadsheet on my laptop. I kept getting an error message when trying on my phone. I had to change to color manually. Let me know if that is clearer please

Editing because I missed the first part of your comment, unfortunately an automated feeder wouldn’t work because there’s also 3 dogs and 2 other cats in the house, my moms dog has free reign of the house at night and I think would race to be the first one there. But I already wake up to check on him, if I need to I can feed him myself. I keep boiled chicken breast for him as a treat already. I didn’t think about that possibly spiking his BG, I may test that sometime. As far as I know it doesn’t. He also gets Tiki cat sticks during his injections and fluids, may test those too come to think of it. But I was just reading another condo where someone mentioned a feeding schedule like that with small meals at +2 +3 +4 (they called it “feeding the curve”) and I like that idea. Also keeps things simple for me. I’ve been trying to find a good balance in his meal times.

I can so relate to the waking up in a state of panic. I also have dreams about it!
 
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Elizabeth & Mister said:
I read somewhere that during a bounce, along with stored glucose, the kidneys also release another chemical (?) that prevents the insulin from working correctly, so during a bounce it’s common to not see the numbers go down very much. Is this true
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It’s the liver not the kidneys and its glucagon and counterregulatory hormones. It can take up to six cycles to clear a bounce but some cats can clear it in a cycle.

There is a lengthy explanation about feeding the curve but I don’t need to overwhelm you with that right now 😉

Nice he is coming back down. Have a great night!
 
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