04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9+8=75

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Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

I would stall. Do not feed her, and test again in 15 minutes to see if she's surfing, diving, or rising.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

ok...15 minutes from the last test or 15 minutes from now?
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

If you can't monitor I wouldn't shoot that, looks like she has been dropping all night.

ETA: sorry am on the phone at the same time, didn't see Dyana had arrived :smile:
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

It was explained to me that she was clearing a bounce.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

But, she could also go right back up again, like she did on the 15th.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

Do the test 15 minutes after the last one, which is probably about now?
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

She typically does bounce in these situations but we can't be certain that it will happen. I also have to leave on time to day..7:45am so I won't be able to get a +2. I can isolate but she's been a picky eater lately.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

she is begging for food! but i will stall until you tell me!
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

You don't want to stall too much (since that in itself acts like a dose reduction) and do a BCS dose, both.
If it were me, and I had a low AMPS that I had never shot before, and had to be away all day, I would shoot a BCS, now,
and leave a bunch of food out for her. I'll probably get in trouble for this, but that's what I would do.
After she eats, she'll probably start rising, and you'll feel better.
It's up to you, you hold the needle and syringe. I would not recommend stalling any more. I would shoot now.
You have 1 and 1/2 hours to monitor her before you leave, and if you have to, you can always leave out HC.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

so a bcs does of what. 1u...75u?
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

I would do 1.00, and then feed her. Sometimes, I only take off a little bit, just to make me feel a little more comfortable, like shave the dose a little. Warning, she will probably be high when you get home, because of this.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

Gave her 1u. she didn't eat that well and I'm due to leave in 45 min. I'll try and give her another snack before I leave and isolate her with food.

Even though I probably should have shot her the full dose I think this was the safest bet for the circumstance Dyana! Thank you for checking in on us:)
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

Did you shoot?

Next time she gets a number like this on a weekend or a night, when you'll be home to monitor her, I would go ahead and shoot the full dose (as long as she's not dropping drastically), to see where she goes with it.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

Good hooting Tamara. Please mark in your ss 1.00 BCS and the time you gave her the shot.
I would test her 20 minutes after she eats and 5 minutes before you walk out the door, to determine what food you leave out for her.

Have a good day. I know you're nervous.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

If she doesn't finish her snack then I'm definitely leaving something out for her but am wondering at what range should I leave more?

Thank you!
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79! Dosing advice needed!

If she's below 79, I would leave out a little HC with some LC, or some MC.
If she's 79 (the same) and surfing, I would leave out a bit of MC along with some extra LC.
If she's 120 or 140 or above, I would think she's rising and LC is fine.

Hopefully, someone else will be by before you leave to help you decide, or give other opinions besides mine. Gotta run..
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79, +5.5=365, +10.5=387

Greg gave me the car to come home at lunch to check on Ella and her bg was 365. She didn't touch any of the food I left out and so I gave her an 1/8 by syringe. She still won't eat on her own accord which worries me when I leave her to fend for herself. If she really gets into a situation will she buck up and sort her self out? At this point I know she is hungry as she is begging for food but when I put the wet food down she hides under the bed or will only eat it if I syringe it to her. Even then, she is only eating a fraction of the amount she was eating even a few weeks ago. Unless I force the calories into her, she's not getting what she needs on a daily basis. I'm kind of at the point where I feel like I may need to get her back on the dry as I know she will eat that for sure. The thought of it really upsets me as I have seen the benefits of the wet for her but something has happened in the last week that has turned her off. She is having solid poos and not vomitting so I thought all was well but perhpas it's not agreeing with her in another way?! I also don't suspect a URI as her breathing sounds clear and she is no longer sneezing. I've tried all sorts of the great food suggestions but she's still not eating independently. She runs to the other bowls when she hears the dry being poured out and wishes more than anyhitng that she could scoop it up. Any suggestions?
Also, since she's so high, can I move her shot time back half an hour? I did a BCS of 1 u this morning so I'm not sure if I can increase her dose back to 1.25 u and move back the shot at the same time. Thanks!
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79, +5.5=365, +10.5=387 (dosing time tonig

wow, Rupert may have to hand his bouncing crown over to Ella! I can't give much advice on the dosing although to me 387 isn't that high (knowing how high Rupert bounces) and I'm thinking wiser ones here will probably tell you to hold thru till regular time. Re the food, i guess you've tried all sorts of tempting efforts? i mixed 'people' tuna in with the Hills diet that the vet gave us at first (i of course don't use that junk now) and Rupert REFUSED to eat it, but with the tuna on top and mixed in a bit he started to eat it, and then I would just pure the 'tuna juice/water' on the top and that helped. Now he gobbles down the Wellness. i find if the food is a bit stinkier (pew!) they seem to go for it better. The WORST one (for smell) is the Ocean Breeze from merrick, it's also kind of runny and disgusting, but the cats seem to like it. I don't use it much because of the smell but it was a good 'crossover' type of food. Good luck. That 79 this morning is what's causing the wicked bounce, she'll probably level out just fine this evening.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79, +5.5=365, +10.5=387 (dosing time tonig

She hears you pouring dry food. Poor Ella.

Yes, you can go ahead and shoot now. I would test her first and shoot the full regular dose.

Please remind me, was she tested for pancreatitis recently, and have you tested for ketones recently?

I would not go back to dry, but would try to get all my cats on wet food, which is better for them all. JMO.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79, +5.5=365, +10.5=387 (dosing time tonig

Thanks Dyana!

She was neg ketones yesterday. When she went to the vet a few days ago they didn't test her for pancreatitis as she didn't show symptoms (no fever, abdominal pain,vomitting). She tested her appetite out with a few dry nuggets and she went for them no problem so the vet decided not to test.
I've taken her in the past with high fever and abdominal pain and have done the pancreatits test which came back neg.

Unfortunately she has to hear the other cats getting dry food. Nestor my super allergic foster can't eat anything but the dry he is on. We've tried all kinds of foods over the past two years and there's nothing more we can do. The other two gals have wet in the morning and dry in the afternoon. I wish I could afford to give them wet 24-7 but my wallet is just not fat enough:) They get grain free, holisitc dry which I'm hoping isn't too bad for them.

@Pip, It does look like Ella should be crowned the bouncing queen! It's really incredible how much she bounces!
She doesn't like tuna or treats and she's super fussy eater:( Spoon feeding her with TONS of encouragement is pretty much the only thing helping her get her caloric intake these days. I hope she starts liking the Wellness again.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella am 79, +5.5=365, +10.5=387,pmps 390,+2=315

Looks like it might be another active cycle. This may be a silly question but is it harmful for a cat to bounce so much?
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223

Looks like I might expect see some low numbers in the morning. Ella has eaten a 1/4 less than usual and I'm concerned about her not getting proper caloric intake. She won't even take the rest with the syringe. I haven't caught her in the box to do a ketone test yet but I worry that all this bouncing and loss of nutritional support will put her in a difficult situation. I hope she will be ok.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9(concerned)

the bouncing doesn't hurt them. many of our cats bounce all the time - so don't worry about that part. let me see if i can get some ideas for you on the eating issue.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9(concerned)

thinking a little bit more, tamara, has ella lost weight? because if she's not losing weight, she may be eating as much as she needs. could be that the calories are more condensed in the canned - i don't know.

the high numbers after a BCS dose are not a surprise. she didn't get as much insulin as she usually does.

i think it would be a really good idea for you to have a plan for the morning so that if you see a lower than usual number, you have a plan on what you want to do. then you won't feel as panicky when you are faced with it. i linked the "what to do with low numbers?" post to your condo last night in case this morning turned out like it did. it'll just help you feel more in control.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9(concerned)

Can you try different low carb foods? I don't remember which you are feeding her but perhaps you want to try something else. That is what I would do before I would even give dry food a second thought.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9(concerned)

First, do you know what Ella's daily calories should be? How far off of her calories is she?

Her appetite may be less than what it was at diagnosis. As you see numbers coming down, cats tend to be less ravenous. With diabetes, there isn't sufficient insulin to get glucose into the cells. Once you started shooting, glucose is going where it should and appetite decreases.

I would also encourage you to go back to Dr. Lisa's website and look over the information she provides on transitioning a cat from dry to canned food. You may have been transitioning Ella too quickly. It's fine if you need to start over.

FWIW, canned food is substantially less expensive if you purchase the large cans. The 15oz cans of Wellness cost about the same per ounce as Fancy Feast.
 
Re: 04/19 Ella ,pmps 390,+2= 315,+4=223 9(concerned)

the fastest way to get all four of my cats into the basement when the tornado sirens go off in the neighborhood is to grab my stash of dry food from the freezer and shake the container. they ALL come running... and they've been on wet food since alex was diagnosed in 2006.

point is... if they hear it, smell it, or see it... they want dry food. lol!

maybe something from cheryl & winnie's tips and tricks may help:

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.
 
this is great! tells you she's clearing her bounces even more quickly. that's super, tamara. as she stops bouncing you won't see these big spreads in between the highest numbers and the lowest numbers.

i want to take a look at her ss real quickly. be right back.
 
Hi Julie,

I do refer to the how to handle low ps numbers but despte the info on there i'm still nervous to shoot her when I'm not going to be home. it says that newbies shouldn't shoot between 80-150 unless they are data ready. I've heard a couple times that we still don't have enough data for Ella so what's a gal to do with that?

She's in the greens right now so unless she bounces in the next little while then I will need to make decision about shooting below 80. If I were home I would do it but I'm not and can\t drive home every lunch. With Ella not eating on her own, I don't think I feel comfortable leaving her unmonitored. Suggestions?
 
yeah, i understand the dilemma.

i think it's likely that she'll come up in the next 4 hours - we haven't seen her do much surfing in greens yet, so i'm going to guess that she'll be higher.

i don't have a better answer for you - the posts on handling low preshot numbers pretty much cover the options. it's a hard spot to be in when you can't come check on them, and you're doing a good job making the best of it. your plan B today worked well - that's a good option and you might want to do it again in the morning if she's still under 100.
 
Thanks for posting your ideas Jill! Ella was doing fine on the wet for about 2 weeks and then began protesting. Lately, she's looking a bit uncomfortable after eating and I wonder if it's upsetting her in anyway.

Sienne, we definitely switched her quickly. Besides some snacks leading up to the big switch, she made the transition cold turkey. It was decided that this was the best route so that we could start over with the insulin and be sure that she was safe. I'm not home to monitor numbers during the day so we thought it was better to strat fresh then to slowly decrease dry. She was getting 309 calories with the dry m/d. In the last week i'd say she's getting 260-280 calories with major assistance. My main concern is shooting a low number and leaving her without knowing if she will help herself if needed.She was also doing fine on the wet for two weeks and I feel she may be trying to tell me something. I have tries a vareity of wet and no luck so far. I buy the big cans and weigh it out on the scale. The premium foods are still quite expensive that way...especially if there are four mouths to feed:)
 
I don't see the question re"weight. My eyes are burning! If you want to know how much she weighs...it's around 11.3=11.6 ( i think). The vet said she just gained a .5 of a lb. she lost weight with the pancreatitis episode and is now gaining back to where she was before.
 
i just wanted to know if she's actually losing weight, or if she's eating less because she doesn't need as much.

as sienne explained, as her numbers come down she will need fewer calories, because the nutrients she's eating will actually get into her cells.

you poor thing, i know it's in the middle of the night for you. i hope you can sleep a little more.
 
also, when she's surfing in the greens at ps and i have to stall...she is starving and nervous. Stalling cant kick start the bounce but I guess I have to withold food at this particular time to make sure I'm not shooting a food spike..correct?
 
we posted at the same time. see my post right above yours above this one! :lol:

correct. if you are stalling, you don't feed. you're waiting for the numbers to begin to rise on its own, not because of food.
 
should i get more tests tonight? if she wakes me up ravenous in a few hours can I feed her despite if it's a =10,11?
 
in general, i would not feed her after +6, personally. punkin goes from +3 for 9 hours until his next shot without eating, but i'm about tough love.

absolutely i wouldn't feed in the 2 hours before a shot. you will be seeing a food-influenced number.

i'm headed for bed - if i were you, no, i wouldn't get more tests, i'd sleep for however much longer you can. night night!
 
if she is low this morning do i need to stall or can i just shoot a bcs at 1 u?
 
you can shoot a BCS of 1unit if you want. generally, if people are stalling they don't then decrease the dose as well. so it's one or the other.

i think cathy or dyana listed the 3 choices at the top of this condo.
 
she listed three choices for leaving food out but I'm assuming you're talking about the same choices in the how to handle low numbers sticky so I can refer to that. Thanks!
 
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