Golf2015
Member Since 2020
- BG Reading @ AMPS is (79)
- Preshot Dosage =1.25 units
- Fed 1.5oz of 0% Carb Dry Matter
- Next BG Reading @ AMPS +3.5
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03/31 Henry AMPS 79 +3.5 73 PMPS 80 +3.5 81 +5.5 77
- Thread starter Golf2015
- Start date
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Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
Hello Robert 
I hope Henry is doing well.
I see your dates are always my yesterday, or so it seems.
What country are you in?
I hope Henry is doing well.
I see your dates are always my yesterday, or so it seems.
What country are you in?
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Hello Robert
I hope Henry is doing well.
I see your dates are always my yesterday, or so it seems.
What country are you in?
Indiana
I'm UTC - 4
Summer and Susie (GA)
Member Since 2020
Henry is doing great, Robert. What is UTC - 4?
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Universal Coordinated Time (UTC)
24 hours in a day
UTC divides the world into 24 time zones
I believe the zero (0) time zone is somewhere in Great Britain (London)
As you move West from GB ==> I myself is UTC - 4 hours so if its 12:00pm (noon) in GB (London) subtract 4 hours from 12:00pm (noon) it would be 8:00am here in Indiana
If you look up UTC time and then look at your current time it is either before or after or the same as UTC
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Summer and Susie (GA)
Member Since 2020
Wow, you sound very intelligent. Henry is lucky to have you for a Dad. I'm in Florida so I just say EST.
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
Oh I am funny arent I ahahahaaa I see the day I am in post always tells me yesterday for you, so I took it for granted it is another country
I just looked and I see Indiana has two time zones, EST and CT, so you are further west Indiana, in the CT time zone, I suppose
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Oh I am funny arent I ahahahaaa I see the day I am in post always tells me yesterday for you, so I took it for granted it is another country
I just looked and I see Indiana has two time zones, EST and CT, so you are further west Indiana, in the CT time zone, I suppose
I'm in Eastern Standard Time although a small portion of Indiana is Central Standard Time
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Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
OK it is the forum title being dated early that has me confused.
03/31 Henry AMPS 79 +3.5 73 PMPS
Golf2015, Yesterday at 11:37 PM
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Yes, I do this around Midnight because Henry's last BG check is 11:30pm and then I have to turn around and get back up (5) hours later for his AMPS preshot.
So I populate the next day in the forum around midnight to reduce the time editing the next day entry
Once Henry has his AMPS preshot (6:00am) I go back to bed and try to sleep a little bit more before the AMPS +3.5 BG check (9:30am)
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
You guys are so funny!!!
Love this thread today
I'm in Florida too...so I just say DST - for that lovely Daylight Savings Time now... I'm ready for LIAT aka Leave It Alone Time - whatever time that is!!
I should try to follow some of your logic there Robert - I'm so darn busy with work...I miss out on posting because I don't have a template...but then I don't bother posting all the BG readings throughout the day...I'm lucky to get the AMPS on there! LOL! Sometimes I don't even get that much done...
Have a good evening
Love this thread today
I'm in Florida too...so I just say DST - for that lovely Daylight Savings Time now... I'm ready for LIAT aka Leave It Alone Time - whatever time that is!!
I should try to follow some of your logic there Robert - I'm so darn busy with work...I miss out on posting because I don't have a template...but then I don't bother posting all the BG readings throughout the day...I'm lucky to get the AMPS on there! LOL! Sometimes I don't even get that much done...
Have a good evening
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
@Golf2015
I have looked over your spreadsheet for Henry. He is well regulated, it appears to me, unless I do not understand what I see.
I do see that your signature shows no dry and you feed Henry FF canned, and I see in your SS that you are dong TR and being as we are not to feed dry food while doing TR, I have to ask what do you mean by 'dry matter'?
I have looked over your spreadsheet for Henry. He is well regulated, it appears to me, unless I do not understand what I see.
I do see that your signature shows no dry and you feed Henry FF canned, and I see in your SS that you are dong TR and being as we are not to feed dry food while doing TR, I have to ask what do you mean by 'dry matter'?
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
You guys are so funny!!!
Love this thread today
I'm in Florida too...so I just say DST - for that lovely Daylight Savings Time now... I'm ready for LIAT aka Leave It Alone Time - whatever time that is!!
I should try to follow some of your logic there Robert - I'm so darn busy with work...I miss out on posting because I don't have a template...but then I don't bother posting all the BG readings throughout the day...I'm lucky to get the AMPS on there! LOL! Sometimes I don't even get that much done...
Have a good evening
I am with you on the LIAT
I do like the early dark evening better than the long daylight hours but I really just wish they would leave it alone, whatever time.
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
Christie & Maverick
Member Since 2017
Hi Robert, looks like you're getting some good results, perhaps in part the slight increase, and the lesser carb experiment is contributing to some nice flat cycles. Let's hope it keeps going!
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Hi Robert, looks like you're getting some good results, perhaps in part the slight increase, and the lesser carb experiment is contributing to some nice flat cycles. Let's hope it keeps going!
Yes, Lets hope it continues
I'm trying to maintain both postings and SS data as accurate as possible with respect to amount of insulin, % of Carbs, and quantity of food per feeding each occurring at the same time every cycle
This helps me and others like you on being able too have higher predictable outcomes for the present and future
Your hunch with respect to 0% Carbs may flush out in the next few cycles
I suspect their others who check in on Henry's progress (privately) who are also data driven forming their own analysis
Thank You for checking in on Henry feedback is very important for me and the others who are monitoring his progress
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Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
I’m glad you’re experimenting with no carb foods. That was the one variable that didn’t change much recently and just might be the thing that’s making a difference. Good luck!
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
Thank You Katherine
Christie & Maverick
Member Since 2017
I personally do appreciate the level of detail that you provide with Henry's journey. I have been here quite a few years now, and enjoy seeing progress, but also like the challenges that each unique case presents. Henry is lucky to have you.
Golf2015
Member Since 2020
@Cherryl & Mouzer
@Christie & Maverick
@PerfumedCatMom
I see you’ve started to add “dry matter”. In reality, the % carbs you are adding should be referred to as “% calories from carbs”. That’s because it can be calculated either from as-feds or dry matter basis (DMB) values. The resulting % calories from carbs will be exactly the same whether one uses as-feds, which include moisture, or DMB, which does not. I don’t know if you’ve seen this post.
I know you understand those calculations but the values on the cans are usually guaranteed analysis. There is a difference between guaranteed analysis and DMB (and as-fed) and I believe that’s what you were trying to say in post 17. But I would be cautious about putting it in terms of moisture vs no moisture because of the as-fed values which are as valid as DMB and include moisture.
@Christie & Maverick
@PerfumedCatMom
Henry is looking great again!
I see you’ve started to add “dry matter”. In reality, the % carbs you are adding should be referred to as “% calories from carbs”. That’s because it can be calculated either from as-feds or dry matter basis (DMB) values. The resulting % calories from carbs will be exactly the same whether one uses as-feds, which include moisture, or DMB, which does not. I don’t know if you’ve seen this post.
I know you understand those calculations but the values on the cans are usually guaranteed analysis. There is a difference between guaranteed analysis and DMB (and as-fed) and I believe that’s what you were trying to say in post 17. But I would be cautious about putting it in terms of moisture vs no moisture because of the as-fed values which are as valid as DMB and include moisture.
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
I have to be honest to say that this is all another language to me.
I was trying to figure out how there are 0% carbs ...
My mind was trying to figure out ... is the food being dipped from the can with no moisture, so the carbs from the moisture are not in with the food that is dipped out -- I finally decided I have no understanding of this at all.
Summer and Susie (GA)
Member Since 2020
Me too, Sue and Cherryl. I like Standard Time better because I get up early and go to bed early. But, like both of you, I jut want them to decide one or the other and "leave it alone"! I have lots of clocks in my house. One is so heavy I don't even take it down anymore to change it. I just say "I'll wait 6 months and it will be correct again".I am with you on the LIAT
I do like the early dark evening better than the long daylight hours but I really just wish they would leave it alone, whatever time.
Summer and Susie (GA)
Member Since 2020
I don't understand it either, Cherryl.
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
I'll 3rd that! And I've been trying to figure that out for 3 years! LOL!
I just go by what the carbs are on the food chart - https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
I'd be ripping my hair out by now trying to go past that...I just don't have the bandwidth or the mathematical capacity for it...lucky for me programming is about logic and not about math..otherwise I'd be doomed...
I just go by what the carbs are on the food chart - https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php
I'd be ripping my hair out by now trying to go past that...I just don't have the bandwidth or the mathematical capacity for it...lucky for me programming is about logic and not about math..otherwise I'd be doomed...
Christie & Maverick
Member Since 2017
I'm glad Marje came by with her explanation of how we look at food content, I had wanted to try and add some details yesterday evening, but it had been a long day, and I probably wouldn't have been able to explain it as well as Marje did anyway .
So here's my point of view:
1) There are a few ways to analyze food content, which is why it is easy to get confused
2) As Marje said, most US pet food manufacturers provide on their labels the Guaranteed Analysis. If you look at a label, you'll see minimums (crude protein and fats) and maximums (crude fibre and moisture). For us, we need to be able to assess % calories from carbohydrates
3) I try not to get too hung up on the values, mostly because I can't control what the pet food manufacturers do, and even sometimes because of the min and max there are differences between batches of the same food. And until I decide to make my own food, I can't do anything about that!
4) I use the calculator that Marje posted every now and again, because there are times when the pet food companies change their formula, so I like to make sure I am still in the ballpark when it comes to the % calories from carbohydrates for what I believe is a good range for my cat. What works for me, may not work for you.
.So here's my point of view:
1) There are a few ways to analyze food content, which is why it is easy to get confused
2) As Marje said, most US pet food manufacturers provide on their labels the Guaranteed Analysis. If you look at a label, you'll see minimums (crude protein and fats) and maximums (crude fibre and moisture). For us, we need to be able to assess % calories from carbohydrates
3) I try not to get too hung up on the values, mostly because I can't control what the pet food manufacturers do, and even sometimes because of the min and max there are differences between batches of the same food. And until I decide to make my own food, I can't do anything about that!
4) I use the calculator that Marje posted every now and again, because there are times when the pet food companies change their formula, so I like to make sure I am still in the ballpark when it comes to the % calories from carbohydrates for what I believe is a good range for my cat. What works for me, may not work for you.
@Cherryl & Mouzer
@Summer and Susie
@Sue and Luci
@Golf2015
@Christie & Maverick
It is confusing. I’ll try to break it down just a bit more.
Manufacturers of pet food provide two forms of food analysis:
—guaranteed analysis which is usually on the can or bag and is required to show the purchaser the guaranteed minimum and maximum of certain components like fats, proteins, ash, etc. While there are some calculators which purportedly convert the macronutrient (fat, protein, carbs) values into % calories from those macronutrients, they should not be used as they can be very inaccurate.
, we have to go one step further because the DMB and the as-feds don’t provide the % calories of each macronutrient. They only provide the actual percentage of that component in the food. My post (linked in post 27 above) goes I to depth on those calculations.
This is why it is confusing to others if Robert uses “% carbs dry matter”. Depending on the other components in a food, the DMB of carbs in a food might be 2% but the % calories from carbs in that food might be 0%. Although it isn’t needed for him to do so, if he wants to, the better way to put it would be “% calories from carbs on a DMB.”
Does that help? Sorry, Robert, for the condo hijack.
@Summer and Susie
@Sue and Luci
@Golf2015
@Christie & Maverick
It is confusing. I’ll try to break it down just a bit more.
Manufacturers of pet food provide two forms of food analysis:
—guaranteed analysis which is usually on the can or bag and is required to show the purchaser the guaranteed minimum and maximum of certain components like fats, proteins, ash, etc. While there are some calculators which purportedly convert the macronutrient (fat, protein, carbs) values into % calories from those macronutrients, they should not be used as they can be very inaccurate.
- Example: if a can says the guaranteed minimum amount of protein is 30%, the food can actually have 40%. That makes a big difference in calculating % calories from protein.
- Typical analysis of foods can be obtained via two methods: as-feds which include moisture in the food and dry matter basis where the moisture has been removed from the foods in the labs (before canning, Cherryl
). It is used to more accurately compare the full nutrient value of the components because when you add water, it does dilute the macronutrients to a degree. That does not make the as-feds any less valid for calculating the % calories of a macronutrient.
, we have to go one step further because the DMB and the as-feds don’t provide the % calories of each macronutrient. They only provide the actual percentage of that component in the food. My post (linked in post 27 above) goes I to depth on those calculations.This is why it is confusing to others if Robert uses “% carbs dry matter”. Depending on the other components in a food, the DMB of carbs in a food might be 2% but the % calories from carbs in that food might be 0%. Although it isn’t needed for him to do so, if he wants to, the better way to put it would be “% calories from carbs on a DMB.”
Does that help? Sorry, Robert, for the condo hijack.
Cherryl & Mouzer
Member Since 2017
@Cherryl & Mouzer
@Summer and Susie
@Sue and Luci
@Golf2015
@Christie & Maverick
It is confusing. I’ll try to break it down just a bit more.
Manufacturers of pet food provide two forms of food analysis:
—guaranteed analysis which is usually on the can or bag and is required to show the purchaser the guaranteed minimum and maximum of certain components like fats, proteins, ash, etc. While there are some calculators which purportedly convert the macronutrient (fat, protein, carbs) values into % calories from those macronutrients, they should not be used as they can be very inaccurate.
—typical analysis which some of the really high-quality foods might have on their websites and some might even have them on the can or bag even though it might be reported as guaranteed. Confusing, I know. Usually, the manufacturer has to be called and asked for these values which they should very willingly give. These are the important values to use when calculating % calories of a macronutrient. These are the values that reflect the amounts that are actually in the foods based on required testing. What makes this confusing is not every manufacturer uses the exact term “typical analysis” (e.g. some use “nutrient analysis”) but it will be the one that does not have maximums or minimums.
- Example: if a can says the guaranteed minimum amount of protein is 30%, the food can actually have 40%. That makes a big difference in calculating % calories from protein.
But...and I know you all wish it would stop there
- Typical analysis of foods can be obtained via two methods: as-feds which include moisture in the food and dry matter basis where the moisture has been removed from the foods in the labs (before canning, Cherryl
This is why it is confusing to others if Robert uses “% carbs dry matter”. Depending on the other components in a food, the DMB of carbs in a food might be 2% but the % calories from carbs in that food might be 0%. Although it isn’t needed for him to do so, if he wants to, the better way to put it would be “% calories from carbs on a DMB.”
Does that help? Sorry, Robert, for the condo hijack.
LOL It does help but you surely know a lot more about this than I ever even thought about
Exactly what I said above:
“dry matter basis where the moisture has been removed from the foods in the labs”
Katherine&Ruby
Member Since 2020
I brought up the way Robert describes carb content on this thread because I thought he was referring to carb percentages as the rest of us do customarily around here on a ME (metabolizable energy) basis, but then he told me the 7% he was writing down every day was actually referring to DMB, so there was not much room for him to go down carb wise to see if it would help Henry's BGs.
There is a big difference between 7% ME and 7% DMB, and it's very confusing for any newbies trying to bring a cat up from low numbers if we use one method of describing versus another. That's why I'm glad Robert is saying he is using DMB, but really we should all be on the same page to avoid confusion. My two cents!
There is a big difference between 7% ME and 7% DMB, and it's very confusing for any newbies trying to bring a cat up from low numbers if we use one method of describing versus another. That's why I'm glad Robert is saying he is using DMB, but really we should all be on the same page to avoid confusion. My two cents!
Excellent post, Katherine. You are correct that we do not use DMB here for discussing the carb content we are feeding. We use % calories from carbs and we should all be doing that. No one has the time to take a DMB and calculate the % calories from carbs and if all did that, it would take forever to advise someone.
Your point is well taken and reinforcing what I said: there can be a big difference between % calories from carbs and DMB so if someone is feeding a food that is 7% on a DMB, depending on the other macronutrients, that could actually be a high carb food.