03/29 Willow PMPS 77/PMPS#2 at +12.5 79/ +13 79/+1 76/+2 70/+3 65/+4 68/+6 77/+9 85

nslade001

nslade001

Member Since 2018
yesterday.

Hello everyone, Willow has had a downturn. After a beautiful morning and afternoon yesterday, more back to normal than we can remember, when we returned at 5pm (+9) she was in her bed, quiet, inappetent with eyes dilated, and still like it at pmps although she looked a bit more comfortable. Wayne saw her gag and she was inappetent so I gave 6 mg (1/4 of 24 mg) cerenia, and 0.3cc bupe. She ate around 1/2 of her pmps meal (from spoon/fingers). Hid under bed around 1/2 hr, until I brought her out after +2 where she ate some more (from finger) and pooped. Then went up on our bed. By +3pm (11pm) she still hadn't finished her +2 meal (which still held some pmps food and meds). She seemed a bit bloated and tender. Left her until 2 am (+5) where she ate all 2 tsp snack from fingers, and also ate her 5am (+9) from fingers.

I also examined her mouth since she seems ginger about eating, and there is a *lot* of tartar/plaque build up on one of her molars, though overall her gums don't seem bad. I don't know if that's enough to suddenly make her nauseus and inappetant. The vet never really looked in her mouth for the two exams we had her in for recently.

Lastly, she didn't seem to pee as much yesterday; only 3 large clumps I think as opposed to 7 or 8. And only one large clump overnight instead of 2-3. *Lots* of poop though, which is good because I don't think we're getting lactulose into her today.

This morning she *looked* better, but gagged when I offered her meatball with her last antibiotic. So I pilled her 6 mg cerenia, and she ate maybe 2 tsp of her 3 tsp breakfast from a spoon. At over 1/2 hr and she still didn't want to eat. Now at +1 she's eating some weruva, (spoon and floor) hopefully she'll get her full 3 tsp in.

Really wondering what to do; it's coming on a weekend of course (and if it comes to an emergency, it's an hour drive to an emergency vet after 11pm into Ottawa, where we have no idea where anything is. So we try to avoid that.) The vet really seems to be $-oriented, and don't know if we can get away without bringing Willow in.

Would ondansetron be better than cerenia for nausea? Does it come in injectable? What should the dose be
for a 11-12 lb cat?
Also, is 6 mg a high enough dose of cerenia?
I have some mirtzapine (sp) but have never used it; should I ask for the other appy stimulant (cypro I think) instead?

Any other thoughts/ recommendations?? Anything at all?

I hope you all had a great night, and wishing you and your kitties a day of safe surfing :)

Thanks so much, with love, Nikki

AMPS 6.0 (108)
1.05 U Lantus
+3 3.8 (68)
+4 3.1 (56)
+4.5 2.8 (50) ... fed and ate! 1 tsp LC duck pate
+4.75 2.8 (50)
+5 3.0 (54)
+5.5 3.2 (58)
+7 3.2 (5.8)
+9 3.4 (61)
PMPS 4.3 (77)
+12.5 (PMPS#2) 4.4 (79)
+13 (PMPS#3) 4.4 (79) ... fed 1/2 normal meal, ate eagerly by herself. Gave 75 cc SQ fluids shortly after.
+1 4.2 (76)
+2 3.9 (70)
+3 3.6 (65)
+4 3.8 (68)
+6 4.3 (77)
+9 4.7 (85)
 
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I found and many others too that ondansetron works well for nausea. It’s wven sometimes necessary to use both. Only downfall to using Just ondansetron is that it needs to be dose 2-3 times a day. It really helped Max with pancreatitis.
 
Ondansetron and Cerenia target different nausea receptors, so sometimes one or the other, or both, are needed. Ondansetron in Canada is REALLY expensive. You need to get a script from your vet and fill it at the human pharmacy. Get the generic ondansetron, still around $4 a pill here. Do shop around. Just for funs I got them to quote me the Zofran brand, and it was around $17 per pill. :eek: And yes, you can get it in injectible, might have to go to a compounding pharmacy. Ask about how long the vial lasts. I was comparing notes with a friend and someone I met through here, and her ondansetron vial only lasts one month. Cost was OK if you are using every day, otherwise pills might be more economical. @Crista & Ming is using the injectible, and she also lives in BC. Injectible lasts longer than pill so may not have to be dosed as frequently.

As for doses, note that the oral and injectible doses are different. Cerenia pills can be 2mg/kg, ondansetron pill can be 0.5mg/kg twice a day to start. Frequency and amounts can go up. Check with your vet on dosing.

Some cats have side effects to oral mirtazapine. Transdermal form,which is fairly new, absorbs slowe soma lot less side effects.

Sending feel better vines for your little old girl,
.
 
Sending vines to Willow!
Wondering how much lactulose you're giving? I found that I had to split the dose in half and give it to Allen twice a day; once a day seemed to make him feel unwell and he was gassy.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Sending vines to Willow!
Wondering how much lactulose you're giving? I found that I had to split the dose in half and give it to Allen twice a day; once a day seemed to make him feel unwell and he was gassy.
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Hi, I upped her to 2 cc twice daily, but cut back again; I'd rather not keep her on it if I can avoid it. It seems to help more than not. Unfortunately, didn't get much of last night's dose or this mornings. Thanks, with love, Nikki
 
Bugger has been teasing at a reduction when I *really* don't want to worry about that lol... I fed some LC when I normally wouldn't at 2.8 (50). She hasn't been eating as well or much as she usually would today, though her attitude has definitely improved some, and she's now eating more on her own. Will recheck at +5.5. It's odd of her to keep dropping this late, and last time she did she earned a reducie.
 
At least in the US, ondansatron in pill form is much more expensive than as an injection. (It's a sub-q injection just like insulin.) However, it stings like crazy, so be forewarned if you go the injection route.
 
First thing that came to my mind was ,all the meds are "making her nauseous" but that's just my way of thinking. Everyone else seems to think more meds are even better o_O
Oh well they have more experience than me :)
Friday.jpg
 
Willow's +9 is only 3.4 (61) , and she's very reluctant to eat her snack. Hasn't eaten all she should have today, but not too bad...maybe a teaspoon or two less than normal. I'm very worried about her preshot tonight, and if we can get her to eat enough. She's just very....listless today. Not very responsive, or hungry, or anything, just bleh. Doesn't seem painful, she's moving between her bed and ours, and not hiding...just inappetent and bleh. She hasn't had all her constipation meds, and hasn't pooped, but seriously she cleaned out around 10 inches of poop overall yesterday so I don't expect her to have much left. Really hoping her bs increases, if it doesn't we may shoot a reduced dose. I'll be calling out for help and advice! With love, Nikki
 
Hi everyone, as you can read in the above comments and SS remarks, Willow is pretty inappetent and bs was running lower than normal. She did eat almost what she should have in total through the day, but with much coaxing and spoon feeding. She just has no spark. PMPS is 4.3 (77) and I'm afraid we won't get the food we need into her, so I'm holding off insulin for a while. Could someone please keep an eye out in half an hour for advice, support etc?

I have mirtz which I've never used, but may later tonight. I also have fortiflora which I forgot about, but would have tried if I'd remembered. I also plan on doing SQ fluids later tonight...should I do them now, while we're waiting to see if BG rises?

Thanks, with love, Nikki
 
Hi, so her +13 was 4.4, not rising, so I gave 1/2 usual dose. Her appetite was great, which is why I decided not to skip the dose, but we only gave 1/2 her usual meal for the moment. Still seeming to have difficulty eating/chewing. Will check at +1
 
If you're worried Willow won't eat enough tonight to keep her from dropping you can skip the shot. I hope she feels better soon. Sending prayers.
 
carfurby said:
If you're worried Willow won't eat enough tonight to keep her from dropping you can skip the shot. I hope she feels better soon. Sending prayers.
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Thanks, she was actually moving around looking to be fed, so we decided we were comfortable (mostly!) with a reduced shot...and she did eat eagerly without coaxing or assistance. Hope it keeps up!
 
Hi everyone, so her +1 is down at 4.2 (76). I gave her SQ fluids shortly after insulin injection, and her attitude seems much more comfortable and relaxed. However, not interested in food. Sprinkled on some Fortiflora... definitely piqued interest, ate some but pretty sure it's her teeth bothering her now because she keeps leaving dish. Kept following her with food, adding Fortiflora, and each time she eats more; this stuff works, but only so much if she stops eating from pain. She did finish her meal eventually by herself.

I want to avoid bupe like the plague because of constipation issues, but don't know if I should give it?
I don't want to knock her out with a painkiller either, because I need to have her up to eat if necessary.
I have mirtz, will that make her hungry enough to eat through pain, if that's what is going on?
Any thoughts, experience?
Thanks so much, with love, Nikki
 
One of my vets really doesn't like using mirtz (especially along side with bupe). She said it gets cats really nauseas. Willow is eating though which is good (please correct me if I'm wrong). I personally would use mirtz as a last effort. If you can get cypro, that'd be better to avoid the side effects. I think vets like to give mirtz because it can also be injected vs. cypro which can't. But then we always end up giving the pill form of mirtz anyway so... *shrug*

I think the problem right now is probably more about the pain and nausea that's not allowing Willow to eat with enthusiasm. Maybe someone has suggestions on pain relief that isn't bupe.

Hope Willow stays safe and eats for you. I don't have much advice unfortunately but I'm here for moral support :) and I think you're doing a great job!
 
Crista & Ming said:
One of my vets really doesn't like using mirtz (especially along side with bupe). She said it gets cats really nauseas. Willow is eating though which is good (please correct me if I'm wrong). I personally would use mirtz as a last effort. If you can get cypro, that'd be better to avoid the side effects. I think vets like to give mirtz because it can also be injected vs. cypro which can't. But then we always end up giving the pill form of mirtz anyway so... *shrug*

I think the problem right now is probably more about the pain and nausea that's not allowing Willow to eat with enthusiasm. Maybe someone has suggestions on pain relief that isn't bupe.

Hope Willow stays safe and eats for you. I don't have much advice unfortunately but I'm here for moral support :) and I think you're doing a great job!
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Thank you :) So nerve wracked tonight. She's down to 70 at +2, not a big drop but still.
She's eating, but not with any eagerness, and keeps leaving her food. We keep following with her bowl and fortiflora. I'm getting stressed, I don't know what I'd do without my hubby and you all.
I do have gabapentin as well, only gave it once. The problem is, she doesn't seem uncomfortable or painful, or even nauseous right now. Just starts eating and stops, so I assume it hurts her when she eats.
I really want her bg to rise. ugh.
With love, Nikki
 
If you're right about this being a dental issue, you might want to get her in to see your vet or a veterinary dentist. It may be time for a cleaning or to figure out if she has a bad tooth that needs to be pulled.
 
Hi @Sienne and Gabby (GA) , her AMPS is 4.9 (88) a new low to shoot. She almost earned a reduction yesterday, we may have kept her up with food, and we had to really keep at her to eat, but she ate her normal amount overnight; yet even with the reduced 50% dose last night her AmPS is this low. We plan to reduce dose this morning as if it really was a reduction earned yesterday, unless recommended otherwise. Just scared we won't be able to get her to eat today, although she just ate brekkie like a pig, horked it down. Please let us know what you think. With lvoe, Nikki
 
Poor baby, I hope you find out what's wrong soon. :bighug: It's really hard when you know they don't feel good and can't tell you what.

We're also an hour and a bit from Ottawa on the St-Lawrence 5mts from the Quebec border.
 
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