03/20 J.D. PMPS 228 Another question

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Dyana

Dyana

Member Since 2009
Yesterday's Condo

Ginger keeps walking around my ankles trying to steer me to the food. J.D. spent the first hour after shot time laying on the kitchen carpet by the sink (where he lays when there's good stuff, like shrimp), now he's back in his bed.
They are starving as J.D. has to go in for a fasting blood test in about 40 minutes (which is 2 hours past breakfast time).

I wanted to thank you all for your well wishes and vines, yesterday. Please keep them coming. J.D. does seem a little better than he was on Sunday. He is responding to me, and he did enjoy his steak last night. I just hope he'll eat good, today. I have cyproheptadine and mirtazapine, if anyone advises using it.

I just wanted to comment on this post and hope that Karrie swings by sometime today:

Karrie and Maverick said:
I hope JD is back to his normal self very soon. Most cats see an improvement within 12 hours if nausea is an issue. There are other causes of vomiting which you've heard. Pepcid can help with excess stomach acid so it would be good to start this. 1/4 of a 10mg Pepcid AC tab - twice a day, an hour before food. I've always given Pepcid with food as a chaser, so the bit of pill doesn't get stuck in his esophagus. So, an hour before food. Good to know. That will delay dinner time, as I get home from work at PMPS, but the cats will just have to deal with that. Don't do this until after you see the vet though. Why? I haven't given him any, just wanted to know the why. DANG IT! As I type, he's throwing up clear fluid, probably from having any empty tummy..

Keep an eye on when vomiting happens. If its more than two hours after eating and he's vomiting food, or partially digested food - it can be a sign that his stomach isn't clearing well enough. If stomach motility is an issue reglan/metoclopromide or cisapride may be added. Okay. My vets already ask me where did you get this information (like the list I brought with me to the vets, yesterday). So, I just tell them in a strong voice "I believe he has stomach motility issues and can I please have some reglan or cisapride?" nailbite_smile

Call around for the best price on ondansetron also. It varies widely on pricing. On the Feline Assisted Feeding board a number of members have said they've found good prices at Costco and you don't have to be a member. Thrivingpets.com sells it for $1 a pill. I paid $31 for 10 pills, oh well. Dosing does vary. Maverick was on 1/4 of a 4mg pill. The plumbs guide suggests up to 4mg. JD is a big cat right? Yes, he just weighed in at 14lbs, which is a little more than normal, for him lately. The bottle says GIVE ONE-HALF TABLET ONCE OR TWICE DAILY AS DIRECTED. No one directed me. I just asked for the drug, and they gave me a script. Should I give it twice a day, and is there certain timing, like with food, before or after food? Also, J.D. does seem to get constipated, so if this gets him more constipated, I guess I'll have to add Miralax to the mix, as well. Okay?

Make sure he gets enough calories in to maintain his weight and keep his liver healthy. Finger feeding food into his mouth and syringe feeding if needed. If you do this, you might want to use a food you don't normally feed him to avoid him getting food aversions. Thanks, I almost forgot about that, since he did eat fine on Sunday, when he seemed so out of it. It was yesterday, when he sniffed his food and walked on. So, I fed him steak yesterday and lots of treats. I'll watch the food intake.

Sending big hugs to both of you. You are a great mom. You sense something isn't right and act on it right away. He is in good hands.
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Okay, we're off to the vet in 10 minutes. Wish me luck in getting the Buprenex.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350

You may not need the reglan or cisapride. Just keep an eye on when and what is vomited. Then you can ask for it if its needed.

I'll post back in a bit. Good luck at the vet!
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350

Ginger wants food! They can be very insistent when they're hungry, can't they? :lol: Sending good vetty vines. Hope all goes well.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350

Heling vines and good vetty vibes for your day today! I always hate not being able to serve breffis. They do think they will starve. Thinking of you Dyana and your sweet boy! ((((Hugs))))
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350

Dyana, adding my healing vines and good Vetty vines to J.D. today. Yum on the steak dinner last night for J.D. Glad he enjoyed it.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350

Hi Dyana,
I hope that everything is going well at the vet and that J.D. will be his old self very soon.

Hugs and healing vines,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 Vets = ARG!!!

I asked the receptionist about how often I am supposed to give the Ondansetron as the bottle says to give 1/2 tablet once or twice daily as directed. The receptionist went in the back room and came back and said if he's not vomiting then don't give it. I asked her again, and she did the same thing. Isn't the Ondansetron for nausea, so he'll eat? Please let me know if I'm wrong.

I reminded the receptionist like 3 times that I was to pick up Bupe, and finally was given a script to fill.
J.D. ate some grass on the walk from my car to the house, and then threw up the grass with clear liquid on the kitchen rug...they always have to aim for a carpet or rug. I gave him the other 1/2 of the 4MG Ondansertron, and at first he would not eat any food. I added some freeze dried salmon dust and he ate some..a little.. He then went to his cat bed and took a little face bath. I suffered a pretty deep wound to my finger trying to force some FF into his mouth after the pill went down.

I just called the vet and said they have the test wrong. The paperwork says TLI Feline. I told them I want a PLI.
They said they would change it and call me if there are any problems. They probably think I'm nuts, or very demanding and strange anyway.

The tech I called regarding the TLI test just called back and said the TLI has already been run, and I said I asked for a PLI. She said they are both the same test. I said I googled them and they are not. I said, so I have to come back for more bloodwork, so you can do the PLI? and she said they save blood, so there may be some extra. I am so mad :evil:

The conversation was ended with the vet will call you back when she has a minute....... I'm going for a walk.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

J.D. finished his food when I brought it to him in his bed. :smile:

What do I do with this vet? Do I demand that they do the test I asked for? If so, I hope they saved some blood, because I don't want to fast him again, and do this all over again tomorrow. I took today off. I can not take tomorrow off, period and I can not really be late for work, tomorrow, to bring J.D. in for another blood test, tomorrow morning, either.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

aw, Dyana...I had no idea this was going on! :sad:

Sending the strongest of good vines for JD...and hugs to you, my friend...

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Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Dyana- I'm sorry J.D. still isn't quite himself, and I'm really sorry about all the hassles with the vet. Ugh! I went through a similar bloodwork mix-up with Mario at my vet last December. Since this is a family site, I won't recount my reaction to them when I found out that I was going to have to bring my 17 year old arthritic cat back in for another blooddraw because THEY screwed up. But, I did demand that the next round of bloodwork be on the house, and it was. In addition to that, I have been completely breathing down their necks every time I go there. I don't care if I sound like I'm nagging, I repeat a bazillion times what test(s) I am there for, and I pretty much make them repeat back to me. It's crazy, but I won't put one of my cats through that again.

I hope J.D. continiues to feel better...it sounds like he's slowly getting there!
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Well, given that the TLI was a new test in 2002, what you want is a spec fPLI. Typically, this is a test that needs to be sent to an IDEXX lab. Here's the info on the test. There's a link to an article that points out how this test is superior to the TLI.

What is your vet thinking?
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 Vets = ARG!!!

Dyana said:
I asked the receptionist about how often I am supposed to give the Ondansetron as the bottle says to give 1/2 tablet once or twice daily as directed. The receptionist went in the back room and came back and said if he's not vomiting then don't give it. I asked her again, and she did the same thing. Isn't the Ondansetron for nausea, so he'll eat? Please let me know if I'm wrong.

I reminded the receptionist like 3 times that I was to pick up Bupe, and finally was given a script to fill.
J.D. ate some grass on the walk from my car to the house, and then threw up the grass with clear liquid on the kitchen rug...they always have to aim for a carpet or rug. I gave him the other 1/2 of the 4MG Ondansertron, and at first he would not eat any food. I added some freeze dried salmon dust and he ate some..a little.. He then went to his cat bed and took a little face bath. I suffered a pretty deep wound to my finger trying to force some FF into his mouth after the pill went down.

I just called the vet and said they have the test wrong. The paperwork says TLI Feline. I told them I want a PLI.
They said they would change it and call me if there are any problems. They probably think I'm nuts, or very demanding and strange anyway.

The tech I called regarding the TLI test just called back and said the TLI has already been run, and I said I asked for a PLI. She said they are both the same test. I said I googled them and they are not. I said, so I have to come back for more bloodwork, so you can do the PLI? and she said they save blood, so there may be some extra. I am so mad :evil:

The conversation was ended with the vet will call you back when she has a minute....... I'm going for a walk.
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They are definitely not the same test. You should get a refund for the TLI test that they ran. The TLI used to be one that they ran for pancreatitis, but it was found to not be very helpful. It was replaced by the much more diagnostic fPLI, also sometimes known as a specfPL. The TLI will test for exocrine pancreatic insufficiency, which is a rare ailment. I don't know about the USA, but up here the TLI is crazy expensive.

You were asking above about mirtazapine and cyproheptadine. Of course, you wouldn't use both - one will actually nullify the effects of the other (which is good because if your cat is having crazy side effects from the mirtz, you can give a bit of cypro as an antidote). Again, I would prefer to see you have a bit of a handle on nausea before you give one of these appetite stimulants. If you do give one, unless you have seen how J.D. reacts to them in the past, I would start with an ultra low dose and see how he does. Some cats get pretty vocal and agitated (thus the "meow" in "meowzapine").
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Grrrr I'd be angry too. I'd have wanted to kick her in the teeth. What a dolt.

I think they dropped the i and its now the spec FPL. Make sure its this specific one.

You can try 1mg of the ondansetron twice a day and go up to 2mg twice a day if you don't find it helps. Signs of nausea are showing interest in food and walking away, lip licking, lip smacking, teeth grinding... Not just vomiting. I would give it as a just in case.

Mirtz and cypro - did you get a script for this? I'm sorry your finger got eaten :( Always give antinausea medication with an appetite stimulant. And vets almost prescribe way way too much of the stimulants. Post what the vet prescribed before giving it to him. We can provide feedback. I know with cypro you start at a very small amount - like 1/8th of a pill. I'm unsure about mirtz, but its called meowzapine on the FAF forum because some cats get agitated and meow a lot on it.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Sorry, this is going to be long.. deep sigh.

I went to the grocery store pharmacy with the Bupenex prescription and asked them "do you have this?" They found out that they did not but could order it and it would be there by tomorrow night grrrrr. I said what do I do, just call a bunch of pharmacies? The pharmacist said, "or you can ask your vet, if they prescribe it, they should know where people can get it." I'm huffing mad. I go directly to the vet and ask for the copy of J.D.'s bloodwork, and to ask them where to get the Bupenex. The receptionist said "well you can call around to the different pharmacies." I told her the pharmacy told me to ask them. She went in the back room and then came back and said we can fill it for you here
gaah.gif
They sold me a bottle with 1.50cc and the bottle says to give 0.1cc morning and night if needed.

I saw J.D.'s regular doctor come to the front desk briefly and tried to flag him down, but he said "gotta go, very busy" or something to that effect.

The bloodwork out of range: except Glucose..
CK 58 is Low (64 - 440 U/L) last bloodwork a month ago was 70
BUN 49 is High (15 - 34 mg/dL) last bloodwork a month ago was 38
A/G RATIO is High 0.9 (0.4 - 0.8) last bloodwork a month ago was 0.9

T4 is 1.8 (0.8 - 4.7 ug/dL) so that's good

I looked at an email someone sent me regarding bloodwork results, it says:
CK is very important in storing energy needed for muscle contractions. High levels indicate muscle trauma or damage such as due to seizures, surgery, bruises, inflammation, nutritional and degenerative diseases. Low levels are not clinically relevant.

Then, I said I hope you have some blood left for the fPLI test I asked for. I told the receptionist that I took today off to get this bloodwork, that the vet said it had to be a fasting test, and I showed her the piece of paper with fPLI written on it, and she said I would have to come back this morning to get the fasting blood taken, and that she would not get those results until Wednesday. I told the receptionist that I came in at 8:00 this morning for the bloodwork, got home at 8:25am and saw the wrong test on the paperwork, waited until they opened at 8:30am and called to let them know that that was not the test I wanted, and I was told that the test had already been run!!! I told the receptionist that I would pay for the difference of the two tests, and they better have some blood left, because I do not want to fast my cat again, to come back for more bloodwork. I told her that if the vet said she would not get the results until Wednesday, I was assuming we were communicating and that the test was going to be sent out.

On a better note. I gave J.D. and Ginger a teaspoon of 7% FF when I got home from all this and they both ate it.

I just don't want to have to keep fasting him, if they are going to need more blood. You know what (talking to myself here), I'm just going to feed him. Heck with them.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Dyana -- a low CK reading is not clinically significant. I wouldn't worry about it. As long as J.D.'s creatinine and urine specific gravity are normal, the BUN isn't a problem. It is likely elevated due to the dehydration from his vomiting. Are the individual albumin and globulin tests within normal range? If so, I wouldn't be too worried about the A/G ratio. These are protein ratios and could be reflective of how J.D. has been eating.

Once this episode is all over, it might be helpful to sit down with your vet when you have a blood panel that hasn't been taken when J.D. isn't feeling well.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Sienne and Gabby said:
Dyana -- a low CK reading is not clinically significant. I wouldn't worry about it. As long as J.D.'s creatinine and urine specific gravity are normal, the BUN isn't a problem. It is likely elevated due to the dehydration from his vomiting. Are the individual albumin and globulin tests within normal range? If so, I wouldn't be too worried about the A/G ratio. These are protein ratios and could be reflective of how J.D. has been eating.

Once this episode is all over, it might be helpful to sit down with your vet when you have a blood panel that hasn't been taken when J.D. isn't feeling well.
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Thanks for responding.

His Creatinine is 1.8 (0.8 - 2.3 mb/dL) last month was 1.4
and I don't see urine specific gravity on here, but am guessing that's a urine test.
Albumin is 3.2 (2.3 - 3.9 g/dL) last month was the same 3.2
Globulin is 3.5 (3.0 - 5.6 g/dL) last month was 3.7

So all good, there.

I just fed him and Ginger another heaping teaspoon of 7% FF (I'm only giving the 7% at the moment to make sure he'll eat) and he ate his up and then pushed Ginger out of her bowl.

I haven't given the Bupe, yet, because if I have to get another blood test, I'm not sure if the Bupe will affect it.

I keep being told that the doctor will call me back... when? Patience is wearing. :roll:

J.D. did not nice big stinky solid poop, just now :-D Hey, I'm trying to look for the possitive on a rotten morning :cool: .
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

I don't know about lowering BGs, I just know it makes them dopey.

Sorry, I didn't answer your posts about the appetite stimulants. I always take both with me when we go on our yearly vacation. I did not use them last year, but one time while on vacation, I gave J.D. some mirtz and he started to twitch a little and acted like he was really agitated and pacing fast. I googled from my parents computer and found that the cypro I had with me was the antidote. Then I had to find out if it was okay to give the cypro, while he had been given mirtz. I think if I remember right, I called my vet, and said it would be okay. I don't think I ever did give him the cypro that time because the episode only lasted about 10 long minutes and was gone. I have used mirtz mostly, when J.D. looses his appetite from ABs. Last time he was on ABs, I didn't have to, as I found the Pepcid 30 minutes before the ABs helped him to not get an upset tummy.
So, I have both if needed. They may be a year old, though.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350 TLI vs PLI question

Good Heavens!!!! That is just crazy! No wonder you are about to pull your hair out!!!!

I get my bupe at a compounding pharmacy. It isn't compounded but they have it and it's actually cheaper than through the vet....but it isn't cheap.

The original test for pancreatitis was fPLI; the new test...which Sienne is talking about is Spec fPL (not Spec fPLI). Obviously, you can't trust them to do the right test so it's best to be sure you have it
exactly correct. I'd be mad, too....there is no reason for that and then the vet is too busy to talk? Geezzzzzz!!

Sending JD more healing vines. I"m glad he ate......and sending you hugs, Dyana.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236

The doctor called me back and said all lab results are good, and they will be running the fPLI test and calling me tomorrow with the results YAY! And, since the TLI was more expensive, they'll be issuing a credit for the difference.

I gave J.D. the 0.1 of Bupe just now, and he ate a little more food.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I get my bupe at a compounding pharmacy. It isn't compounded but they have it and it's actually cheaper than through the vet....but it isn't cheap.

The original test for pancreatitis was fPLI; the new test...which Sienne is talking about is Spec fPL (not Spec fPLI). Obviously, you can't trust them to do the right test so it's best to be sure you have it
exactly correct.
Click to expand...
They did give me the script for Bupe back to keep, so I guess I can get more if needed.

Do I have to call them back and tell them Spec fPL?
:YMSIGH: Okay, I just did. Sometimes, I think the problem is with the receptionists. I had her write it down and she said "Alrighty, I'll bring it back to his chart". I know my vet has warned me about the receptionists before :lol: Well, hopefully, they'll get it right.
I must have such a name there. I wonder what they call me :oops: :cool:
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236

funny dyana, i just had the news on and they were talking about this woman back east, who keeps going back to the vet with her cat named JD. You know what they called her? St. Dyana. yup, patron saint of sick kitties. always looking out for them, helping them, and advocating for justice and good medical treatment for them. :-D

have a great day - sending more EAT UP vines to JD!

punkin gets .2ml bupe, i have had mixed ideas on whether or not it drops his BG. twice when i was starting a run of giving it, the first dose seemed to drop the BG. none of the subsequent doses seemed to change anything. so i have no idea, but would lean towards it doesn't make a dif for punkin.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236m +8 232

Aw, Thanks Julie, you are so sweet. :YMHUG:

I was thinking about Karrie's comment about the Bupe lowering the BGs, and if it makes the pain go away, then the BGs would come down, so it does make sense that it should lower BGs.

In total his morning, J.D. ate about 1/2 can of FF, one little teaspoon at a time.
But, I did just heat up another 1/4 can of FF Savory Salmon in the microwave and added some water with 1/8 tsp. Miralax and he slurped all that up. It's +9, now, so I guess he won't be eating much more until PMPS.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236, +8 232

I don't know who posted about their cat and bupe lowering blood glucose. Maybe its due to pain relief - that makes sense.

If I had a choice between mirtz and cypro for one of my kitties I'd go with the cypro just from what I've read about other kitties reactions to mirtz. I don't know if one is better than the other for any reasons - or if some cats shouldn't take them for any reason. A lot of people think I'm against stimulants but I really try (even beg) people to make sure no nausea exists. One of the mods on FAF had their cat not eat for many many years due to a short time on one without the vet treating nausea. I'd rather pay for ondansetron than syringe feed a cat for five years. Its something to take seriously but unless you are on a forum like FAF you wouldn't hear about food aversion often.

So glad the blood test ended up working out. The receptionist sounds like such a ditz.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236, +8 232

Karrie and Maverick said:
I don't know who posted about their cat and bupe lowering blood glucose. Maybe its due to pain relief - that makes sense.

If I had a choice between mirtz and cypro for one of my kitties I'd go with the cypro just from what I've read about other kitties reactions to mirtz. I don't know if one is better than the other for any reasons - or if some cats shouldn't take them for any reason. A lot of people think I'm against stimulants but I really try (even beg) people to make sure no nausea exists. One of the mods on FAF had their cat not eat for many many years due to a short time on one without the vet treating nausea. I'd rather pay for ondansetron than syringe feed a cat for five years. Its something to take seriously but unless you are on a forum like FAF you wouldn't hear about food aversion often.

So glad the blood test ended up working out. The receptionist sounds like such a ditz.
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So, it's okay to start him on cypro, tonight? I've just heard it takes a while to work, like a day or so. Mirtz seems to start working for J.D. in about 30 minutes or less, but wears out it's effectiveness by the end of the 2nd day. Although, I have heard you can do an alternative to the 1/4 pill every 3 days. Is it something like 1/8 pill every day or every two days?
Those little pills are so small, it's hard enough to break them into quarters, I have no idea how teeny tiny an eighth would be :shock: . I'm going back to work tomorrow, so would just like for J.D. to have the extra appetite stimulant until he's eating normally, with gusto, again. I don't want to think that he slept all day long and didn't eat anything while I was away all day. KWIM? I think I'll just give him some cypro.
Ugg. I just checked my supply and my cypro expired. Back to the vets.. :roll: :-|
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236, +8 232

FWIW, my sister is going through similar issues with the specialty vet practice she's using. The level of stupidity with the vet techs is incredible. She was none too happy with the vets in the ER or the IM vet. Maybe it's like the flu -- there's a virus going around that's making people very unhelpful.
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +3.5 325, +6 236, +8 232

Oh Good Grief!!! You poor thing! What a day!
Here are a bunch of :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: for you (and JD!) (and ginger....can't neglect her! :mrgreen: )

If the J.D. is having higher numbers due to pain AND the bupe reduces the pain, yes his BG's will likely lower some.

Ranitidine can also be a substitute for pepcid and help with motility issues. Latte used it for quite a while and it helped when she was throwing up food hours later.
Here is a page which lists a lot of good information on various meds for nausea:
http://www.felinecrf.org/nausea_vomiting_stomach_acid.htm#ranitidine

The cypro pills are tiny. I often just gave Latte a pinhead size dose to start. I added another pinhead size dose later on, if it did not seem effective enough.

You probably know this, but cats will often eat grass if they feel a little nauseated because it will make them throw up. Remember that grass bed I had for Latte? We would fight about when she could go out in the a.m. ALL the time. I knew if I let her out before she ate bfast, she would eat the grass, vomit, and then stay clear from her food. She HAD to have food in her tummy first...then she could handle it. So maybe avoiding grassy areas until you get the nausea under control?

Pretty much all of the above medicines you are talking about can be compounded into a form other than a pill. We always took this route because Latte would often vomit her medication. If it gets difficult, we can steer you in the direction of a good compounding pharmacy.

If you cannot get the nausea under control, do consider a round of cerenia.

I really hope you do not have to bring him back to the vet tomorrow.

LL has got your back, girlfriend! ;-) Keep doing what you are doing to get what you need for JD. I always felt caring for Latte was a very good lesson in how to be assertive with who I considered authority (drs, vets, etc). You are doing great!
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +11.25 212 Another question

I really don't like having such long condos, especially about medical things :roll:

How do I know when he's all better and I can stop giving the Bupe, the Ondansteron, the Cypro, etc?
Right now, he's all doped up.

Okay, off to get the cypro. The last time I asked for them to call in a prescription for me (for Levemir), they said "we don't call in prescriptions" all hoidy toidy. This time when I asked about a refill, they put me through to "The Pharmacy". I didn't know our little vet hospital had "A Pharmacy". They actually went as far as finding a pharmacy that had the 4 MG pills, called in the script, and then called me to say I could go pick it up at the pharmacey around the corner from them. Anyway, I'm off.....

bbl
 
Re: 03/20 J.D. AMPS 350, +11.25 212 Another question

Sorry to make your condo longer ;-) .

I know I am too late, as you are already off to the pharmacy...most times they will cut pills for you, if you ask. Otherwise, do you have a pill cutter at home?

Dyana- you will know when to wean him off the meds, just like you knew he needed them. The vet should give you a suggested time frame to give them regularly. If at any point you try to stop one of them and he is acting nauseated, not eating, vomiting, or in pain ...then you know to add it back in. Sometimes you have to go with the behavior and demeanor you are seeing, along with your gut.
 
I'm sorry, I'm such a pain, but that's just what I am today.

I gave him the 1/2 Onsdansetron with his shot and he ate 1/2 his 1/4 can (so 1/8 can) of FF for dinner. Then he goes heading downstairs to the litter box, and I watch him almost trip twice, and I only saw him on the bottom third of the stairs. So, I guess the litter box comes upstairs and the basement door gets closed for awhile.

The pharmacist said the cyproheptadine can make him lethargic and cause blurry vision. His vision is already compromised and has been for 7 years or however long he's been diabetic. What to do. I guess I have to give it.
He got the bupe at +6. Can I give him more now, and then again at AMPS? Is that too much?
 
I would not give the bupe in 6hr intervals. It is usually every 8-12hrs. What does the prescription say?

The bupe is probably making him wobbly. Good idea to bring the LB upstairs.

I thought you have used cypro on JD before?! Just use a very small dose to start.

I will find an info sheet on cypro for you and edit this post (not to make your condo longer ;-) )

ETA:
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/cyproheptadine-periactin/page1.aspx

I did a drug interaction check with cypro and bupe, because I know one made latte sleepy, the other hyper....so I was curious as to how they would work together. It said:
Significant - Monitor Closely

cyproheptadine + buprenorphine

cyproheptadine and buprenorphine both increase sedation. Significant - Monitor Closely.
Click to expand...
http://reference.medscape.com/drug-interactionchecker
 
Dyana said:
I'm sorry, I'm such a pain, but that's just what I am today.

I gave him the 1/2 Onsdansetron with his shot and he ate 1/2 his 1/4 can (so 1/8 can) of FF for dinner. Then he goes heading downstairs to the litter box, and I watch him almost trip twice, and I only saw him on the bottom third of the stairs. So, I guess the litter box comes upstairs and the basement door gets closed for awhile.

The pharmacist said the cyproheptadine can make him lethargic and cause blurry vision. His vision is already compromised and has been for 7 years or however long he's been diabetic. What to do. I guess I have to give it.
He got the bupe at +6. Can I give him more now, and then again at AMPS? Is that too much?
Click to expand...

I think that it might be the Bupe that is making him a little unsteady. I don't think that I would give it every 6 hours. Bupe is dosed not only be weight, but by duration of action (i.e. a higher dose will give a longer lasting effect). I am not sure about the concentration of your Bupe, and about the dose for J.D.'s weight. I am sure you have mentioned it, but what did the vet's directions for giving the Bupe say? A higher dose will also tend to cause more sedation. I have usually given Bupe every 12 hours, but I would probably not give it any more frequently than every 8 hours.

J.D. has quite a bit going on with the Ondansetron, the Bupe, and possibly the Cyproheptadine. I don't have much experience in giving the appetite stimulants, but I guess I would just suggest using caution when adding in another drug tonight, if J.D. is already feeling the effects. Just keep in mind that if he is over sedated, he will be too sleepy to eat. Use your best judgement, but I would go on the low side on the Bupe and Cypro.

You aren't a pain (except maybe to your vet's office). ETA: I was typing this up, and see that Carolyn has already given you input, but I will post anyway.
 
Thanks Carolyn.

The Bupe bottle says give 0.1 cc by mouth morning and night if needed.


I have given him cypro before, but I think it was way back in 2009 before and after his dental, and I gave it them because of the ABs causing inappetance.

Comments from my spreadsheet:

03/18/09
Work Today (7:30am to 6:00pm). Rebound, from PM?. J.D. cleaned up all leftovers from last night at PMPS +10.5 (4:00am). Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine and 1/4 Pepcid AC at PMPS +11.5 (6:00am). Ate 1/2+ can of FF for breakfast sprinkled with Forti Flora. Gave Clavmox at AMPS. Left out 1 can of LC FF (2 cats). Left automatic feeder to give 1/3 can of LC Friskies at +4 and 1/3 can of LC Friskies at +6. Almost no food left out, eaten, when I returned home from tbp. Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine and 1/4 Pepcid AC at PMPS +11.25. Gave another 1/4 Cyproheptadine and 1 Clavamox at PMPS +12.75. Waiting for advise to shoot. I gave him some real tuna, and he is eating that. I finally, decided on my own, just to shoot normal shot at AMPS +13. J.D. still won't eat the left out food from today,but, he ate gratefully ate some of my steak, the real tuna, and a 1/4 can of Tender Beef Feast that I had in the refrigerator. Woke me up at +6 (1:30am) to raid the kitchen.

03/19/09
Work Today (7:30am to 6:00pm). Rebound, from PM?. Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine at PMPS +10.5 (6:00am). Ate about 3/4 can of FF for breakfast. Gave another 1/4 cyproheptadine, 1/4 of Pepcid AC and 1 Clavmox at PMPS +11 (6:30am), and gave him a bit of milk to wash the 3 pills down, as he had already eaten. Keytones - Negative. Left out 1 can of LC FF (2 cats). Left automatic feeder to give 1/3 can of LC Friskies at +4 and 1/3 can of LC Friskies at +6. Very little leftover food eaten when I returned home from work. Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine and 1/4 Pecid AC at AMPS +11. Gave 1 Clavamox at PMPS. Ate very little dinner, but gratefully ate some of my steak. Gave another 1/4 Cyproheptadine at PMPS +2. Ate 1/2 can of LC FF at +3.5.

03/20/09
Work Today (7:30am to 6:00pm). Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine at PMPS +10.5 (5:00am). J.D. ate the leftovers from last night, and almost 1/2 can of FF for breakfast at PMPS +11 (5:30am). Gave 1/4 Pepcid AC at PMPS +11 (5:30am). Gave1 Clavmox at AMPS +.5 (7:00 am). J.D. ate another 1 can of FF (his favorite Flaked Fish and Shrimp). Left out 1 can of LC FF (2 cats). Left automatic feeder to give 2/3 can of LC FF at +4 and 1/3 can of LC FF at +6. Vet visit, today, to discuss dental possibility. etc. Scraped tartar from teeth. Gums bloody afterwards. He received a distemper shot and had blood work done to determine kidney and liver function. WEIGHT 16 LBS. 1 OZ. Gave 1/4 Cyproheptadine at AMPS +.5, and 1/4 Pepcid AC and 1 Clavamox at PMPS.


I gave it on more days around the dental, but this is a good example. It looks like I gave it a lot. :roll:
 
Did you already give the cypro?

If not, what about waiting to see how the pepcid and ondansetron work first? That may be enough to do the trick.
 
Ya, you were giving 1/4 tab of cypro 2x's every twelve hours. That is a lot.
Cyproheptadine comes in 4mg tablets. Whilst Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook mentions a dose of 1 - 4mg once or twice a day for a cat, many people on Tanya's CRF Support Group have found a dose of 0.5mg once per day works well, so you may wish to ask your vet if you can start at this level, increasing it only if necessary.
Click to expand...
http://www.felinecrf.org/persuading_cat_to_eat.htm#cyproheptadine

For appetite stimulation in cats, the dose is 1 to 4 mg per cat one to two times daily.
Click to expand...
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/cyproheptadine-periactin/page1.aspx

Btw...if the bupe says 2x/day, if needed. That means every 12hrs. So you should not give him any more until ?middle of the night? Or a.m.

I would try to give it after meals, because it made Latte drowsy enough that she was not as interested in eating.

ETA: information on dosage for cypro
 
Too much information ..hair pulling out smiley inserted here..

I will stop giving him the cypro, I guess.
No scratch that.. I just went down in the basement to bring him upstairs and he was all happy to get some food, and that makes me happy, and seeing him eating is such a big thing right now. I just want him to eat.. his food and be happy.
So, maybe the cypro kicked in already.

I think I will give him Bupe at night only, and the cypro in the morning only. Does that sound okay, for now?
And the Onsdansetron twice a day, for now. I haven't even gotten the results of the Spec PL back yet.

Hey, maybe that's why my vet actually called in a prescription to a pharmacy for me today :razz: , so I wouldn't show my face again at their office, today. I don't think they liked me too much when I was complaining earlier in front of a bunch of clients.
 
It looks like what you are doing right now is working, if he is happy and you are happy. Make your decision about the Bupe in the morning. See how he is overnight and how he looks tomorrow. It looks like he tolerated the cypro very well tonight. Well done on taking care of J.D.today and advocating for him at the vet.
 
Dyana said:
I think I will give him Bupe at night only, and the cypro in the morning only. Does that sound okay, for now?
And the Onsdansetron twice a day, for now. I haven't even gotten the results of the Spec PL back yet.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a reasonable plan.

Glad he is eating!

He is making me hungry....Im going to go make these cranberry scones Ive been thinking about all day! :mrgreen:

((((((((((((Dyana))))))))))))) Good job today!
 
Dyana, I'm speechless, you were SUPPER BEAN today! I don't think I could ever have navigated through a day like you had. You did such a fabulous job. I actually stopped by your condo earlier and I was so confused, I was speechless then too, so I left till things calmed down. Some friend/LL I am :lol:

Just happy J.D. seems to be having a better night, sending healing vines for the both of you :YMHUG:
 
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