? 03/18 Binie, AMPS 500 again. Can high numbers and big drops are a sign I already overdose?

Heike & BInie

Member Since 2024
Last thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/03-14-binie-amps-500-finally-something-moving.287712/

Good morning,

after a night with not much sleep I woud be so grateful if someone can help me with my fundamental doubts about the treatment:

When Binie was diagnosed with diabetes my trusted vet told me to inject 2 IU Lantus per day. The night before I already read a lot on the internet and understood, that most people advise to start low with Lantus, sometimes very low and go up in tiny (0,25-0,5 IE or sometimes lower) doses. My doctor advised me not to do so because we would "lose time" if we start low. I did as she told me because I go there since 10 years and always felt she does an amazing job. And after all I was overwhelmed with the diagnose and had just one night of reading. But my gut feeling was not good when I started with 2 IE.

Ever since the doubt about the dosing did not leave me and this makes it hard for me to go higher even if the bg numbers are high. I read, that big drops with more than an average fall of 50mg/dl per hour are an indicator for overdosing. We have this all the time. Either nothing moves at all or we have these big drops, usually at night with an average of 70 mg/dl. No nice flat curves.

Also I see more yellow and some blue the last days it only comes in big drops and the rest of the time she is even higher than before. The freestyle libre gives you a overview of the average bloodsugar and the number is rising on a daily basis. More and more often the freestyle just gives me an "HI" for hours.

I don't sleep anymore because I fear the drops at night. I don't have an 24-hour-emergency vet nearby and I would be lost if she goes into hypo. The freestyle helps but as it measures much higher to the Accu Check I don't trust it 100 % if it comes to low bg. That is why I already start to panic if the display shows something in the 100 with the arrow pointing downwards.

When I came to this forum I already got the answer, that I don't have to start over again with a low dose but for my doubts it would be helpful to get some more explanation. How can I know, I didn't skipped the right dose? How can I know, the high numbers are not the result of a counter-regulation. Thanks to your pantient explanation I understood the idea of bouncing but how do I know, the bounce happens because the body is not used to lower numbers and not as a defense mechanism to too much insulin?

I am sorry to question so much. I tried to talk to my vet but she was very short and just said that there is no counter-regulation or Somogy with Lantus. She thinks there is no real danger for hypo if I always leave out food for Binie. I have to care for Binie on my own and I feel so overwhelmed with responsibility. I think it would be easier if my mind understand, that I am heading in the right direction. Thank you so much!!!
 
Last thread: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/03-14-binie-amps-500-finally-something-moving.287712/

Good morning,

after a night with not much sleep I woud be so grateful if someone can help me with my fundamental doubts about the treatment:

When Binie was diagnosed with diabetes my trusted vet told me to inject 2 IU Lantus per day. The night before I already read a lot on the internet and understood, that most people advise to start low with Lantus, sometimes very low and go up in tiny (0,25-0,5 IE or sometimes lower) doses. My doctor advised me not to do so because we would "lose time" if we start low. I did as she told me because I go there since 10 years and always felt she does an amazing job. And after all I was overwhelmed with the diagnose and had just one night of reading. But my gut feeling was not good when I started with 2 IE.

Ever since the doubt about the dosing did not leave me and this makes it hard for me to go higher even if the bg numbers are high. I read, that big drops with more than an average fall of 50mg/dl per hour are an indicator for overdosing. We have this all the time. Either nothing moves at all or we have these big drops, usually at night with an average of 70 mg/dl. No nice flat curves.

Also I see more yellow and some blue the last days it only comes in big drops and the rest of the time she is even higher than before. The freestyle libre gives you a overview of the average bloodsugar and the number is rising on a daily basis. More and more often the freestyle just gives me an "HI" for hours.

I don't sleep anymore because I fear the drops at night. I don't have an 24-hour-emergency vet nearby and I would be lost if she goes into hypo. The freestyle helps but as it measures much higher to the Accu Check I don't trust it 100 % if it comes to low bg. That is why I already start to panic if the display shows something in the 100 with the arrow pointing downwards.

When I came to this forum I already got the answer, that I don't have to start over again with a low dose but for my doubts it would be helpful to get some more explanation. How can I know, I didn't skipped the right dose? How can I know, the high numbers are not the result of a counter-regulation. Thanks to your pantient explanation I understood the idea of bouncing but how do I know, the bounce happens because the body is not used to lower numbers and not as a defense mechanism to too much insulin?

I am sorry to question so much. I tried to talk to my vet but she was very short and just said that there is no counter-regulation or Somogy with Lantus. She thinks there is no real danger for hypo if I always leave out food for Binie. I have to care for Binie on my own and I feel so overwhelmed with responsibility. I think it would be easier if my mind understand, that I am heading in the right direction. Thank you so much!!!
I cannot offer advice but I just want to say that you are doing a great job in taking care of Binie!! I'm sorry you have having so much stress and I'm sure that someone here will help you!!
 
You wrote:
I tried to talk to my vet but she was very short and just said that there is no counter-regulation or Somogy with Lantus. She thinks there is no real danger for hypo if I always leave out food for Binie. I have to care for Binie on my own and I feel so overwhelmed with responsibility. I think it would be easier if my mind understand, that I am heading in the rightdirection. Thank you so much!!!

Your vet is correct. In fact Binie needs more insulin. I see you are following SLGS. You need to evaluate the dose every 7 days. With the nadirs being over 150 you need to increase to 2.5. Holding a dose longer than needed leads to more and more insulin being needed over time.

Please post every 7 days and ask for dosing advice. Of course posting much more often, even daily, is encouraged, but not required Please don’t worry that you started too high. When starting lantus after using another insulin, the dose of the previous insulin is taken into consideration. Fd is stressful. Anything we can do to help limit that stress we will gladly do. You are not alone in this journey. :bighug:
 
You wrote:
I tried to talk to my vet but she was very short and just said that there is no counter-regulation or Somogy with Lantus. She thinks there is no real danger for hypo if I always leave out food for Binie. I have to care for Binie on my own and I feel so overwhelmed with responsibility. I think it would be easier if my mind understand, that I am heading in the rightdirection. Thank you so much!!!

Your vet is correct. In fact Binie needs more insulin. I see you are following SLGS. You need to evaluate the dose every 7 days. With the nadirs being over 150 you need to increase to 2.5. Holding a dose longer than needed leads to more and more insulin being needed over time.

Please post every 7 days and ask for dosing advice. Of course posting much more often, even daily, is encouraged, but not required Please don’t worry that you started too high. When starting lantus after using another insulin, the dose of the previous insulin is taken into consideration. Fd is stressful. Anything we can do to help limit that stress we will gladly do. You are not alone in this journey. :bighug:


Thank you so much! I did not increase because I think the 158, measured with the freestyle libre five days ago have been bg lower than 150 (the Accucheck is always much lower). But then I will increase to 2.5.
 
I agree with Elise, it's time for an increase to 2.5 units. With the dosing methods, we go by the numbers we see, not by what might have been the number. Also, SLGS calls for nadirs (plural) between 90 and 149 before you hold the dose. A single sighting doesn't count.

Fast drops happen more often when a kitty is at a higher number to start with. When you get to the point that the preshots are lower, you'll see the cycles flatten out.
 
I agree with Elise, it's time for an increase to 2.5 units. With the dosing methods, we go by the numbers we see, not by what might have been the number. Also, SLGS calls for nadirs (plural) between 90 and 149 before you hold the dose. A single sighting doesn't count.

Fast drops happen more often when a kitty is at a higher number to start with. When you get to the point that the preshots are lower, you'll see the cycles flatten out.
Thank you Wendy! I didn't know, that a single sighting of a number between 90 and 149 doesn't count, that was important for clarification. Your explanation with the fast drops also helped.

I will start with 2.5 tomorrow morning. Thanks for you help!
 
:bighug:

Call your regular vet and ask how after hours emergencies are handled, just in case you ever need one for any reason.

Do you have a hypo tool kit set up? https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/ Corn syrup / honey and high carb canned foods are must haves.

General instructions on how to treat hypos: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/


Thank you! I live in an area with no 24/7 vet or clinic near. I don't have a car and getting a taxi at night and driving 80 km takes ages. So it is very helpful to be prepared.

Thank you for the link with the hypo tool kit. I have sugarpaste and high carb canned food with lots of gravy but on the list are some new items I didn't know about and I will get them. I never heard about giving glucose rectal. Is there a video or more information how to give it?
 
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