03/12FrankieAMPS 350;PMPS390;168+2;128+3;120+3.5;104+4

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Beautiful morning ...looks like she really likes less insulin. :-D Going to be interesting to see what the curve tells us.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Dan

I've been sitting back and watching and think I'd like to just throw an idea out there.

If you look at meter variance, Frankie is high and flat. Her AMPS and PMPS yesterday and her AMPS today are all within 20% meter variance. I hope you are testing for ketones every day.

Frankie was seeing some excellent numbers at 1u. I would not have decreased her dose...it seldom works to do so. The high numbers you were seeing at 1u were from bouncing. If you look at the a.m. cycles of 3/6 and 3/8, she started high but managed to bring herself down to blue. She might have also come down in the p.m. cycle of 3/7. And looks to me like she was clearing a bounce on a.m. cycle of 3/9 and could have been down midcycle and then gone back up.

It concerns me when the dose is lowered without a plausible reason to do so and the cat sits at these high numbers. I think you will need to take her back up.

If you haven't looked at Lucians SS, you should. The same recommendation was made to take his dose down and he spent alot of time at really high numbers as his dose was lowered and then had to spend additional time at high numbers while Deb took him up...to surpass the dose he was originally seeing some progress on.

I'd hate to see Frsnkie do the same thing. IMHO, you need to raise her dose back to 1u and get her out of these numbers.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

I agree with Marje and I'd probably go a step further. I think Frankie needs more insulin, not less. You were beginning to see the inkling of better numbers at 1.0u. Less insulin is only going to result in higher numbers.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Well lets review here...Sienne were you not the one that suggested that Frankie be started on .25u? Then .5u which she was but it was not held the proper length of time before accidently raised. This fall back was to make sure the ideal dose was not skipped over. Plus her preshots have been getting increasingly higher. But I will defer to you all if my assistance isn't enough.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

I don't have time for this. I am moving forward as planned. I think she need to be on a stable dose for a while before I make any other changes...As for Ketones tests... I'm sorry I don't have the time to camp out by the LB with a spoon to see when she is going to pee... I have a house to keep in food and clothing. I am doing the best I can for Frankie.... if it dosnt seem to be enough then maybe you can suggest someone to take care of her because obviously I can't!.

Sorry... I have enough stress in my life then to try to figure out who is right or wrong. The approach that I have decided to take is manageable at the moment.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Dan

You hold the syringe. If its ok with you to have Frankie above renal threshold for so long, it's ok with us.

This forum is about peer review. If one person knew all the answers for everything, we'd just let them advise. But that's not the way it works....we are just offering different opinions based on our collective 7+ years of experience and helping many, many caregivers get their cats into remission.

Sienne suggested Frankie start at .25u because she was initially told Frankie weighed 4 lbs. so that was the correct starting dose based on 4 lbs. Then Dan indicated Frankie had actually gained weight before he started insulin; thus it put the starting dose at .5u. Dan raised the dose to 1u accidentally. But it turned out to have a good outcome.

Starting doses are just that....we all realize that the dose might need to go up. Sienne was right on with her initial advice.

I truly wish you good luck with Frankie, Dan. I know you have your plate full and are doing the best you can. My goal was to try and help you get her into remission before your babies arrive so you don't have to deal with this at all.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

I think that 350 at Preshot numbers is better that 450 at preshot numbers as there is no food at that time...At this point, I just think we need to hold a dose for more than a few days before we make any more adjustments. Frankie clears her plate every morning and night, she is bright eyed and bushy tailed her belly is filling out and she is starting to look much less boney. She is more playful, not recluse to under the bed upstairs... she hangs out in the office with me all day now...every thing I have seen since I have started has been improvement. Nothing good in life comes fast or easy, and I don't plan for her to go into remission, only hope.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Dan and Frankie said:
I think that 350 at Preshot numbers is better that 450 at preshot numbers as there is no food at that time...At this point, I just think we need to hold a dose for more than a few days before we make any more adjustments. Frankie clears her plate every morning and night, she is bright eyed and bushy tailed her belly is filling out and she is starting to look much less boney. She is more playful, not recluse to under the bed upstairs... she hangs out in the office with me all day now...every thing I have seen since I have started has been improvement. Nothing good in life comes fast or easy, and I don't plan for her to go into remission, only hope.
Click to expand...

All sounds pretty good to me... people need to watch for the signs of improvement in the cat before the numbers, and by the sounds of the above, you are seeing those signs.

I think you did fine to drop to the .75u dose if you wanted to go slower, and considering the UTI and convenia and mostly how you started dosing the insulin, the fall back was wise.

You were not giving any insulin but started home testing.... great!
Then you gave 2 shots of a dose .5u, then upped it to 1u on cycle 3 and 4 which resulted in a drop from 336 to a 78 and then a few days of high numbers.... oops, so you dropped back to .75u

The protocol followed on TR says to hold the initial dose for 5 days / 10 cycles, so I hardly think that you need to jump up in dose already if you don't feel ready yet. That's what this RL is all about, OK?

I would say that you likely need to be at 1u, so when you are ready, you can go back up to the 1u.... it's only a .25u increase so it should be slow enough, yes?

For ketones, I was never able to catch any urine.... both of my cats went in hooded boxes and their back ends were to the wall with their heads out the door. Some cats are very private and I just laid my KETOSTIX in the urine in the box, and I know some have said they would put the KETOSTIX in the litter right after the cat was done..... hey, they are not perfect ways but it's better than nothing at all, and it's just for a little while..... you want to know if YOUR cat is more prone to ketones or not. Neither of mine ever registered a trace, no matter how high their numbers got, but other cats get ketones at all sorts of numbers, and they can lead to some very expensive and dangerous times for your cat, so why not give it a try.... if you have the stix, just wait for the next piddle and lay the strip in the urine, there's a time needed, but it's listed on the container I think.

I am very glad to hear that Frankie is feeling better, but be careful with staying too long in the higher numbers as they contribute to organ damage over time.... it's why some people may seem to be rushing you to get under the 240 mark or thereabouts.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Morning Dan. Good to hear Frankie is feeling better. :thumbup

I'm able to see the difference in Lucian too, even though, as I understand it, the 'whole cat' report can be a lot better than the numbers would seem. But it's still important and I so love seeing him being more his old self. :-D

Since Lucian was referenced, I'd like to tell you a little about him and my opinion on my cat, if that's alright. :smile:

My Lucian was sent home from the vet, weighing barely 7 lbs, with BG's over 700, a Lantus pen and instructions to give him 3U twice a day and told to watch for HYPO, although I was not told what symptoms to watch for or what to do about it, if it happened. No info on diet, testing, dosing, nothing. Of course, being dumbstruck at the DX, I didn't think to ask. :shock:

As soon as I got home, I started researching and found FDMB and realized I had to drop his dose, since I threw out all the dry food and went all low carb wet. Dropped his dose to 1U and started there. As I continued to read and learn, I had a nagging voice in my head that kept asking "what if I missed the good dose, by not going to .5, as is recommended, when I started or when I upped his dose by more than .25?" This really bothered me, that I may have missed what was best for him. So, again, I took him down.

His history shows that I didn't miss that 'good' dose, thank heavens, but I would not know had I not done what I did. I HAD to be sure I was doing what was best for him and it was my decision to make. I felt I had to pursue all his options if I was going to find what worked for him. It may have added a few weeks to his treatment, I dunno, but I have no way of knowing how long he's been diabetic. I was working so much the last few years, I was lucky to get them fed, much less notice changes.

Thankfully, with the help of people here, Lucian is showing much improvement and I continue to learn as I go. I couldn't have done it without the help I have received and I'll forever be grateful. :YMHUG:

So now you know why I did, what I did and I feel it was the best thing to do for my Lucian. I'm the one caring for him, the buck stops here, as they say. I'm the one responsible for making decisions for him and I am trying to do the very best I can. Thankfully, the multitude of information and the big hearts of experienced people have made it easier for me and Lucian.

Sorry, this was so long, but Lucian can be pretty complicated. :lol:

You're doing a fantastic job with Frankie, hang in there, it gets better. :YMHUG:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Nice drop off the food spike. Fingers crossed she will keep going down today as the shed readjusts some more.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Thanks Blue for the advice.... Mine Are used to covered boxes as well.... I have kept the top off the one upstairs and noticed it does not get used as much any more...that is a top cat (the one the can crawl in from the top... The other one is the Budda (the bubble with the steps) so if I creep up on them while they are doing their business they dart... I've just walk by the budda and nearly got leveled by one of them flying out... litter flying all over the place... I'll try this, but it will have to be a good pool of it as I use A & H and it clumps up really quick... and of course the love to scratch at it when they are done, so I have to catch them in the act.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

The other trick is to replace the litter in one of the boxes with aquarium gravel and then dip into the pool that results...Of course you want to dump and clean immediately afterwards since it does nothing to mask odor.

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Could have sworn there was a list somewhere with tips on getting a sample......using saran wrap, foil, aquarium gravel, etc with directions.

I'll try to find it for you.

Luckily, I have no problem with Lucian as long as I can SEE him head for the LB. I have the top off specifically for that reason and he always goes with his back to the front. ;-) It's just as matter of sneaking up behind him WHILE he is going, since he can't turn it off. :lol: I do kick off my slippers so he can't hear me walking though. I just stick the strip under him and at least 9 times out of 10 can catch the stream. :-D Have gotten pretty good at it and can usually even avoid him wetting on my fingers! :lol:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

I've seen the list.... the foil is a no go... my cats book at the sound of foil... I think it was a traumatic experiance Mollie had with a plastic bag full of PVC fittings that caused that :lol: :lol: I'll figure something out.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

That and plastic wrap I think would be tough, also, if they are 'diggers'. Lucian steps in, does his business, scratches the floor outside the LB twice, hops out and walks away. :lol:

Aquarium gravel would probably be the easiest and it's washable, so you can use it next time you need to test. I suppose you could get a cheap, open LB and do the bathroom seclusion a couple times a week, just to keep her tested, ya know? That's probably what I would try, if Lucian wasn't easy to test.

Good luck with it hon! :-D

Don't forget to add her test results to her SS ;-)
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Lost my 1st fish in over 6 months..... really goes to show where my focus is right now... not happy... I have been neglecting the reef ever since this started and I need to find a balance... The fish tank is my only hobby... there is soo much time and money invested in it, if I let it go it will be probably the last time I ever try to do another tank.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Good hobby but here and now it's likely the watts that are prohibitive?

I wanted to get into reef years ago before I had so many cats back when electricity was nearly free.

Not that many years ago actually. :-|
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

I gould go LED, but the ROI for those would project out about 5 years... I'm waiting for them to get cheaper... right now I love the metal halides and mu power bill only suffers about 40- a month extra in the summer... in the winter it's an offset because I hardly ever use the heat with the heat and humidity generated by the system.
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Sorry to hear about the fish passing...You're right you need to find a balance, not only for the sake of the reef...but for your own sanity. I know it is very hard to not want to watch them all the time but remember they are still cats and will still do cat things. And we need to do the things we use to love as well, and have faith that they will be fine inbetween times. What I do with Autumn and really all the fur babies here to keep everything in balance, is if you look at my spreadsheet there are definite scheduled times that I test, which usually go with when I feed, so I figure I'm going to be doing cat things at those times so testing is just one of those cat things. Then I set the alarms on my cell phone to go off 10 minutes before those test/feed times. When it goes off I find a stopping point for whatever it is that I'm doing, start at the back of the house or whatever room I'm in gather up food dishes, get those set up in the kitchen on the counter, call Autumn to her test spot, test then head to the kitchen. Dole out the food to all the plates, add water, mash and serve. Same thing goes for the litter boxes ( I have 16 to clean) So there is a set order that I always do them in. I have divided up the house so that one room per day gets done completely otherwise it is just straighten and sweep floors. And just like any job there is an end to the business day...after 5pm I'm done except for dinner, test and feeding. If I have something to do that day and I miss a test time oh well its skipped and I wait until the next one etc.

It is just finding a schedule that works to fit it all in, and making it a habit. You need to find a time to pencil in "Work on Reef" Just like I have to pencil in "walk dog" or tend garden in the spring and summer. If posting here everyday doesn't fit the schedule we aren't going to kick you out :-D You already have the hard part down, you know how to test, you know how to give her, her shots. The only real thing you need us for is to help with dosing at this point right? So since a dose is held for 5 days, don't sweat being here everyday, pop in when you need help, or you have a question. It doesn't have to be everyday, it doesn't even have to be every other day. If I start worrying about you as long as you keep up her spreadsheet I can always find one of your posts and open her SS and take a look. If I see something that I think I need to ask you about or have a concern about I can always send you a pm and you will see it in your email that you have one. Now if you just fall off the map for weeks and weeks I will worry about you and you can d*mn well expect me to be sending you PMs...lol I'm a mother hen that way. :-D

But honestly you don't have to be here all the time unless you want to be, if you want to take a couple days to go play with the fishies and pop back on and give a recap of the last few days that works fine too.

Oh yeah when those two new little bundles of joy arrive we want pictures!!!!

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Well I kind of like to interaction.... being at home all day by myself gets to me... so being able to connect with people on a commonality, is therapeutic and since I quit smoking, its really the only breaks I get unless I drive myself stir crazy enough to leave the house, that normally results in me pushing off an assignment and going to the fish store... which doesn't exactly help things...I used to play face book games to take little mind breaks, but I end up with 1000+ face book friends that post all kinds of garbage I have no interest, or stomach for and the game gets boring after a while, unless you want to spend money on it... and the games you spend money on are too engrossing in which I can't work and piddle at them at the same time... so I end up looking around her learning a bit here an there and making friends with y'all...

So you are now my new office friends :)
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Dan and Frankie said:
I gould go LED, but the ROI for those would project out about 5 years... I'm waiting for them to get cheaper... right now I love the metal halides and mu power bill only suffers about 40- a month extra in the summer... in the winter it's an offset because I hardly ever use the heat with the heat and humidity generated by the system.
Click to expand...
LED would help but you'd need (all) the right wavelengths. Halides are likely much better for that.

And some of these LED's aren't lasting nearly forever like they're supposed to.

The reality is the reef runs off energy, so you have to pump in the lumens somehow.

How many watts are you running for 40- a month?
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Some of th new LEDs, allow you to adjust the wavelengths and spectrum... My Hallides and t5HOs run about 7hrs a day at 600W total... not including all the pumps. Th metal halies are 14k Phoenix and the t5hos are ATI Super Blue Actinics
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

LOL why do you think I'm always here...Because if I wasn't I would start meowing or barking since that is who I have for company. :lol:

I just don't want anyone to ever feel like they HAVE to post everyday. If you need to go take care of the tank then do so, we will still be here and chatting around the virtual water cooler. :-D

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Hey Dan why don't update your thread title (in the first post) with the latest readings..

Like Mel, Debbie, and Jess?
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

That is a big drop from 350 in 2 hours.. :shock: But at the very least she is moving in the right direction. And I can't stay with you tonight, I just got home a few minutes ago after being out with friends and am not exactly seeing straight if you know what I mean. But it is awefully hard to say no to free Crown Royal and coke...lol.

Dale are you going to be around in case Dan needs help with Frankie if she decides she wants to earn her first reduction tonight?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350

Dale 'n' Chip said:
Hey Dan why don't update your thread title (in the first post) with the latest readings..

Like Mel, Debbie, and Jess?
Click to expand...

Cause I've been lazy :cool: Actually, I cranked out 3 reports today so not lazy, just didn't think of it ;-)
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Ummm yeah... my 3 reports earned me a sixer and I had 3 in the fridge.... veeeerry interesting :?:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Dan do you need me to find someone to stay with you tonight? Or do you have this if she starts dropping too low?

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

I think I can manage... if she hits 40, I'll feed her some pate and test in 15, if that don't do it, feed her some more and test in 15... if she walks like I do right now... couple drops of karo in her next tsp. of pate :idea:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

recap -
AMPS 350 (.75u)
+2 ~ 445
+4 ~ 386
+6 ~ 336

PMPS 390 (.75u)
+2 ~ 168


Carl


and it looks like I'm 3 beers behind you :lol:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Thanks Dan.

Yes Mel I'll be around for a while

Does look like a possibly busy cycle!
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Ummm yeah... my 3 reports earned me a sixer and I had 3 in the fridge.... veeeerry interesting
Click to expand...

Wait a sec.... does that mean I'm 9 behind?
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

I think the beer's of the world gift I got for X-mas may be going in the fridge :roll:
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Carl!!!! My angel how did you know I was about to go looking for you too. :?: Okay Dan you are in good hands with the boys. So I'm going to drag my drunk butt to bed while I can still find it...we were out celebrating the hubby's birthday early...Never try to keep up when drinking with musicians...lol

Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
 
Re: 03/12 Frankie AMPS 350; PMPS 390; 168 +2?!

Yeah,
I'm technically "on call" tonight. Can't compete with 9, but I'll crack open a Heineken just so I don't feel socially awkward... :lol:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top